Moore Betta Offense - Yards After Catch

[pansophy]

This doesn't explain much. Which routes were being called? How much separation were the receivers getting? Were they running crisp routes and making good cuts? Why was Romo's receivers cut after Dak's second season? Was the Oline blocking well? Etc...

Sure they could be calling very different, but if they are it would be because of Dak's limitations as a passer.

 

[Dre11]

BOOM!!!

Game..
Set...
Match.

@Roadtrip635, you just schooled @Dre11. Raked him right over the coals. @Dre11 looks foolish with your 100% accurate assessment and explanation. @Dre11's problem is that he's got an agenda to simply attack Dak, even if he doesn't know nor understand what he is talking about, thus making a fool of himself. Thank you for this 100% accurate assessment and explanation.

Lol...i'm probably the biggest Dak fan here and defended him at nauseam , Check the history. Doesn't mean I can't see his flaws.

 

[Number1]

Sure they could be calling very different, but if they are it would be because of Dak's limitations as a passer.[/QUOTE

"Limitations"?

please elaborate?

 

[America's Cowboy]

Sure they could be calling very different, but if they are it would be because of Dak's limitations as a passer.

Yeah, that's why the very limited now ex-O-Coordinator Scott Linehan was fired! lol. So much for your "Dak's limitations" assumptions.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I stopped there because its not true at all. These are things that started with Romo specifically targeting Witten. The offensive calling did not change at all with Dak. Dak just did not have the experience to change plays at the line until last season.

Your universe sounds fascinating.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Sure they could be calling very different, but if they are it would be because of Dak's limitations as a passer.

The limitations are coming from our schemes and philosophy. It's not just the limit on route types but formation types. Bunch, picks and rubs can encompass a number of different type routes but we are loathe to use them even when they can help simplify reads or force defenses to react. Pre snap motions and shifts also help and any routes can be used from this, again it helps to force defenses to tip their hand to coverages and force them to adjust, so why do we run almost all passing plays from stagnant sets that allow defenses to easily set against presnap? This isn't about the QB, we didn't use those concepts often with Romo either, it's about the base philosophy from the coaches.

 

[Roadtrip635]

The mass of static stick and comeback routes were additions Linehan made for Dak. I think increasingly over time. I don't remember them being an issue with Romo.

And I suspect Linehan/Garrett revamped the offense for Dak in 2016 relative to Romo 2014. They would have been crazy if they didn't. Garrett actually calls a pretty good game for emergency QBs. I liked the offense much more for Kitna too. More short stuff on the move to get the ball out quick. I think Dak got a lot of that as well in 2016.

The large amount of stop/comebacks were made for Tony, not Dak, those are the routes Tony was most comfortable throwing. We didn't revamp the offense for Dak in 2016 it was largely the same offense but with tweaks added, and was reportedly widely. We haven't made a lot of big changes since, we still run a large amount of that same system. It worked fine with Tony, but we also had the type of receivers that worked well with those type routes, Dez, Witten, TWill (being a body catcher, those type routes are ideal).
Here's a clip of Kitna talking about Romo and the route types he liked "rarely does Tony throw to receivers that are moving, he likes receivers that are stationary"

 

[pansophy]

Yeah, that's why the very limited now ex-O-Coordinator Scott Linehan was fired! lol. So much for your "Dak's limitations" assumptions.

A lot of passes to the outside aren't that accurate. That's why Dez is gone. I'm grateful that Dak and Cooper seem in sync and I thought there was evidence that Dak was turning the corner as a passer. Hopefully he really shines in Moore's offense.

 

[pansophy]

The limitations are coming from our schemes and philosophy. It's not just the limit on route types but formation types. Bunch, picks and rubs can encompass a number of different type routes but we are loathe to use them even when they can help simplify reads or force defenses to react. Pre snap motions and shifts also help and any routes can be used from this, again it helps to force defenses to tip their hand to coverages and force them to adjust, so why do we run almost all passing plays from stagnant sets that allow defenses to easily set against presnap? This isn't about the QB, we didn't use those concepts often with Romo either, it's about the base philosophy from the coaches.

I agree here. The Rams offense is what our offense should like. I do think Dak is better than Goff so no reason for the struggles we have.

 

[ItzKelz]

Your universe sounds fascinating.

full of facts and uninspired by the media.

 

[America's Cowboy]

A lot of passes to the outside aren't that accurate. That's why Dez is gone. I'm grateful that Dak and Cooper seem in sync and I thought there was evidence that Dak was turning the corner as a passer. Hopefully he really shines in Moore's offense.

Kitna is going to help Dak immensely with correcting Dak's footwork. That's going to do wonders to Dak's passing game.

 

[pansophy]

Kitna is going to help Dak immensely with correcting Dak's footwork. That's going to do wonders to Dak's passing game.

I mean I'd like to think they have been working on that since he arrived. They didn't let him take a 7 step drop without play action until week 14 his rookie year for that reason, but yeah, I saw a clip from Kitna where he talked about footwork and how he didn't learn it until half way through his career.

From my seat those two huge big play games that the Dak to Cooper connection produced finally broke defenses from clogging the middle of the field, which they had been doing since season 2. Cooper's numbers dropped but as if by a miracle Beasley and Jarwin started making an impact and things started to look more like Dak's rookie year.

Last year I was looking for sideline passes in the 10-20 yard range and by the end of the year I started to see more of those where the WR had to drag his feet to catch the ball and stay in bounds. This year I'll be looking at what we do on 3rd and long. Dak's success rate has been in the bottom 3rd since his rookie year and seemed like on 3 and 10+ we always threw a screen pass unless the game was on the line. I'd like to see that not be an automatic give up situation.

We'll see, I'm hopeful. Not thrilled we are going to pay him huge dollars before its clear he will succeed as a passer, but there is always going to be some uncertainty and we pay less now then if he has a huge year. Dak has also shown that he continues to improve, so in many ways, what else can we ask for from a young QB.

Maybe solidifying his footwork will pull the whole thing together.

 

[xwalker]

Everyone but Pollard we've seen that they are good at running after the catch in the NFL. The speed only indicates the ability to take it to the house. With that said Pollard appears to have that ability after the catch but we will see.

Pollards ability to transition from catch to run is elite.

The process of looking back at the QB to catch and then transitioning to running downfield is a struggle for many NFL players. Just a slight delay in that process can be the difference in a minimal gain or a significant gain. Pollard does it as quickly as anybody I've seen.

 

[ItzKelz]

Pollards ability to transition from catch to run is elite.

The process of looking back at the QB to catch and then transitioning to running downfield is a struggle for many NFL players. Just a slight delay in that process can be the difference in a minimal gain or a significant gain. Pollard does it as quickly as anybody I've seen.

Honestly Pollard is the perfect back up RB for Zeke....hopefully. Based on what I saw in college anyways. The small weaknesses (if you can really call them weak) Zeke has are strengths for Pollard and vice versus. Also if he can prove to be durable we have little to worry about in the return game WHEN Tavon gets hurt.

 

[xwalker]

Honestly Pollard is the perfect back up RB for Zeke....hopefully. Based on what I saw in college anyways. The small weaknesses (if you can really call them weak) Zeke has are strengths for Pollard and vice versus. Also if he can prove to be durable we have little to worry about in the return game WHEN Tavon gets hurt.

IMO, the only reason Pollard didn't get drafted earlier is because Memphis had 3 future NFL RBs on their roster (Henderson drafted early 3rd and another RB expected to get drafted between the 2nd to 4th round next year).

Henderson was a terrific RB (my favorite in this draft) but with Zeke as the Cowboys starter, Pollard is probably a better fit as the "2nd RB".

Pollard didn't return punts in college (only 2 total) but was terrific on kick returns. Part of that is because Memphis only averaged 23 punt returns per season while Pollard was there.

Hopefully Pollard is an option to return punts for the Cowboys. Austin is unlikely to stay healthy and it's a burden to carry Austin on the 46 man game roster if he is only the returner. Punt return ability might be the only reason that Austin makes the team depending on how Cobb and Pollard look in the preseason.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I mean I'd like to think they have been working on that since he arrived. They didn't let him take a 7 step drop without play action until week 14 his rookie year for that reason, but yeah, I saw a clip from Kitna where he talked about footwork and how he didn't learn it until half way through his career.

From my seat those two huge big play games that the Dak to Cooper connection produced finally broke defenses from clogging the middle of the field, which they had been doing since season 2. Cooper's numbers dropped but as if by a miracle Beasley and Jarwin started making an impact and things started to look more like Dak's rookie year.

Last year I was looking for sideline passes in the 10-20 yard range and by the end of the year I started to see more of those where the WR had to drag his feet to catch the ball and stay in bounds. This year I'll be looking at what we do on 3rd and long. Dak's success rate has been in the bottom 3rd since his rookie year and seemed like on 3 and 10+ we always threw a screen pass unless the game was on the line. I'd like to see that not be an automatic give up situation.

We'll see, I'm hopeful. Not thrilled we are going to pay him huge dollars before its clear he will succeed as a passer, but there is always going to be some uncertainty and we pay less now then if he has a huge year. Dak has also shown that he continues to improve, so in many ways, what else can we ask for from a young QB.

Maybe solidifying his footwork will pull the whole thing together.

Yes, sir.