More worried about line than corners

[manster4ever]

With a healthy Lawrence, Melton and spencer the line has a chance to be average. And with our offense that may be good enough. Take them away and it becomes a dumpster fire

Correct. Just watched some of the SD game....just revolting. Oline is so stout but the Dline is hot garbage. That is a fact.

 

[Hostile]

Am I wrong even with the loss of Scandrick to still be concerned about the defensive line than our cornerbacks?

I think Claiborne and Carr starting has a much better chance of being solid options than most of the players we're counting on at tackle and at end. Moore might be closer to that level, but at least he's a third corner and not the starter like Mincey is expected to be or like Hayden or McClain is expected to be.

Obviously, we're better on the back end if we have Scandrick, too, but not sure it's really going matter who's back there if we get little pressure from the front end.

You want it straight?

They needed a spot for Josh Brent. Too many DTs, not enough CBs. They'll probably cut the Aussie Punter or a WR when Brent gets the word, and that is probably coming soon.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Depends on whose expectations. Mine aren't very high, so I hope they perform better than them.

I think out of that group, we might end up with fewer than 25 sacks. Of course, sacks aren't the end-all to pressure, but I don't think hurries will be that high either.

My expectations are basically nonexistent but I still think this group (currently on the roster) is better overall than last year's group primarily because they were handpicked for this defense.

I think the top seven lineman (Melton, McClain, Mincey, Selvie, Crawford, Lawrence, and Spencer) can play significant roles.

 

[burmafrd]

sad fact is that even if we had everyone healthy this is a mediocre front 7.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

sad fact is that even if we had everyone healthy this is a mediocre front 7.

I'm okay with the Mediocre (not Magnificent) Seven as opposed to Two Men (Ware and Hatch) and a Suck from last year.

 

[TimHortons]

sad fact is that even if we had everyone healthy this is a mediocre front 7.

The thing is, even a mediocre defense can give us a shot at the playoffs

 

[gimmesix]

You want it straight?

They needed a spot for Josh Brent. Too many DTs, not enough CBs. They'll probably cut the Aussie Punter or a WR when Brent gets the word, and that is probably coming soon.

I didn't have a problem trading Bass for a corner. I do agree that Brent will ultimately take his place, and I consider that at least a wash.

Bass is just one of many average to below average DL on this team that we were hoping beyond hope would be more than what they have been. Still have that hope, but it's tempered by the reality of the situation. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than let down by unrealistic expectations.

 

[Doomsday101]

Am I wrong even with the loss of Scandrick to still be concerned about the defensive line than our cornerbacks?

I think Claiborne and Carr starting has a much better chance of being solid options than most of the players we're counting on at tackle and at end. Moore might be closer to that level, but at least he's a third corner and not the starter like Mincey is expected to be or like Hayden or McClain is expected to be.

Obviously, we're better on the back end if we have Scandrick, too, but not sure it's really going matter who's back there if we get little pressure from the front end.

I think DL is the concern. If they can't stop the run and they can get a decent pass rush going then the secondary will be at a much greater disadvantage. I expect Carr to bounce back this season and I think Claiborne will come into his own this year. As for Scandrick it sucks he will be out for 4 games but I think Moore will be able to fill in. My concern is the DL

 

[xwalker]

But counting on sixth- and seventh-round picks to develop or UDFAs isn't very realistic. The likelihood that we get the next Ratliff or Lett out of it is lower than the probability that we get the next Lissemore or Willie Blade (who was a third-round pick but my mind went blank on other late-round DL "busts").

It doesn't mean it will happen, but it does mean that our best hope for getting anything DL-wise out of this draft is DeMarcus Lawrence. That would give us two quality starters and a bunch of backups, so next year we'd need two more studs, if Melton and Lawrence reach that status. If Dallas takes the same route it did with the offensive line, then that means it will try to find those studs in the draft, which as we know is a crapshoot. Maybe Jerry won't have the patience for that, and will add another quality DL next year in free agency. If he does that, then I do believe next season is a realistic timeframe.With four top-quality DL, all these young later-round and UDFA backups can give us the depth we need to succeed.

Of course, we all hope that we will hit on some of those young players because it will certainly make the process quicker, easier and better for our team.

Ratliff and Lett were Super Star type players. They don't have to get that. They need more Ron Leary types.

In 2015 they could have:
RDE Lawrence with a year of experience, Selvie as the backup
3-tech Melton at 100%
1-tech McClain or Bishop or Josh Brent or Free Agent
LDE Crawford on base downs, need Nickel pass rusher

MLB McClain/Lee
SLB Wilber
WLB Carter or Holloman or Hitchens
Maybe a free agent at 1 position depending on who steps up this season

S1 Church
S2 Wilcox

CB1 Scandrick
CB2 Carr
CB 3 Claiborne

That puts the primary needs as:
Pass rushing DE
Maybe a 1-tech
Maybe another LB

It's not that difficult to find 1-tech DTs or 4-3 LBs in free agency but they'll have to pay more than they paid for Terrell McClain or Durant. If Josh Brent returns and both Lee and Rolando McClain play in 2015, they wouldn't need any free agents.

That leaves getting anther pass rushing DE for the draft unless some young player other than Lawrence can step up this year.

 

[xwalker]

If Lawrence turns into Ware overnight maybe. But that is pretty darn unlikely, Ware was/is a HOF talent.

Other than that. with Lee's inability to stay on the field we are still a long, long way to go on the front 7 to fix in one off-season IMO. There is a lot of hot garbage we are trotting out there this year, even as starters.

The Seahawks didn't have anybody close to Ware in his prime.

If Rolando McClain stays motivated to play, they could have a option to replace Lee if he can't stay healthy. I think there is a decent probability that either Lee or McClain could be available to play MLB in 2015. I wouldn't bet on both of them being available at the same time, but there's a good chance that 1 of them will be available.

 

[gimmesix]

Ratliff and Lett were Super Star type players. They don't have to get that. They need more Ron Leary types.

In 2015 they could have:
RDE Lawrence with a year of experience, Selvie as the backup
3-tech Melton at 100%
1-tech McClain or Bishop or Josh Brent or Free Agent
LDE Crawford on base downs, need Nickel pass rusher

MLB McClain/Lee
SLB Wilber
WLB Carter or Holloman or Hitchens
Maybe a free agent at 1 position depending on who steps up this season

S1 Church
S2 Wilcox

CB1 Scandrick
CB2 Carr
CB 3 Claiborne

That puts the primary needs as:
Pass rushing DE
Maybe a 1-tech
Maybe another LB

I don't think that's far off, so we're probably closer in thought than you think. Hopefully, Lawrence is a draft hit and doesn't end up just a situational rusher. Melton has a proven track record, so the only question is his health. I don't have any faith in any of the 1-techs, so I think it either needs to be the draft priority next year or a better FA needs to be brought in. To make Melton everything he can be, Dallas needs to find a Booger McFarland to pair with him ... someone who threatens offenses enough that they can't just single-block him and focus on Melton. IMO, though, that leaves a need at LDE possibly for more than just a nickel pass rusher. I'm interested in seeing how Crawford develops, but right now I can't consider him just another JAG who had 20 tackles as a rookie and might not be enough of a rushman to start.

I do like the potential of a Lee, McClain, Carter linebacking crew behind them and think we could end up not really needing to add any, but we'll have to see how that develops as well since we're unsure about Carter and McClain at this point (other than the ability being there) and Lee isn't ever a sure thing because of health.

 

[wileedog]

The Seahawks didn't have anybody close to Ware in his prime.

And the only guy we have that would for sure crack the Seahawks front 7 roster on the whole team is Melton. Maybe McClain if for real this time he wants to play football. Maybe someday Lawrence if he lives up to his draft position.We are very far, far away from being the Seattle Seahawks.

If Rolando McClain stays motivated to play, they could have a option to replace Lee if he can't stay healthy. I think there is a decent probability that either Lee or McClain could be available to play MLB in 2015. I wouldn't bet on both of them being available at the same time, but there's a good chance that 1 of them will be available.

This is not going to be a good defense in 2015. Better? Maybe. Hopefully. Probably considering how bad it is likely to be this year. But unless there is some epic stories of 7th rounders and journeymen suddenly blooming into really good players it is pretty darn unlikely.

 

[xwalker]

And the only guy we have that would for sure crack the Seahawks front 7 roster on the whole team is Melton. Maybe McClain if for real this time he wants to play football. Maybe someday Lawrence if he lives up to his draft position.We are very far, far away from being the Seattle Seahawks.



This is not going to be a good defense in 2015. Better? Maybe. Hopefully. Probably considering how bad it is likely to be this year. But unless there is some epic stories of 7th rounders and journeymen suddenly blooming into really good players it is pretty darn unlikely.

Seattle's Super Bowl roster didn't have many Super Star players. The Safety Thomas and the CB Sherman are the top 2.

Their top DT is not as good as Melton was in Chicago.

Their other 2 DTs were just solid. It wouldn't take too much to find similar players. At one time Josh Brent was better than them.

Lawrence could easily be better than their DEs were last season. Crawford has some similarities to their 2nd DE Bennett before he got to Seattle.

Their SLB has nearly identical measureables to Wilber.

Their MLB is not better than Lee or Mcclain at his peak.

The Cowboys 2nd and 3rd CBs could be better than theirs.

Church would likely perform similar to Chancellor if you put him in that defense with good knowledgable players surrounding him.

The Cowboys have to come up with:
Free Safety (can Wilcox step up)
1-tech DT (I don't think either the 2nd or 3rd DTs for Seattle got big contracts after the SB)
WLB (they almost drafted one)
Top CB (Carr is either good this year or they give his 8.5M salary to a free agent)
Nickel pass rushing DE with Crawford or Selvie as the base LDEs

 

[wileedog]

Seattle's Super Bowl roster didn't have many Super Star players. The Safety Thomas and the CB Sherman are the top 2.

Their top DT is not as good as Melton was in Chicago.

Their other 2 DTs were just solid. It wouldn't take too much to find similar players. At one time Josh Brent was better than them.

Lawrence could easily be better than their DEs were last season. Crawford has some similarities to their 2nd DE Bennett before he got to Seattle.

Their SLB has nearly identical measureables to Wilber.

Their MLB is not better than Lee or Mcclain at his peak.

The Cowboys 2nd and 3rd CBs could be better than theirs.

Church would likely perform similar to Chancellor if you put him in that defense with good knowledgable players surrounding him.

The Cowboys have to come up with:
Free Safety (can Wilcox step up)
1-tech DT (I don't think either the 2nd or 3rd DTs for Seattle got big contracts after the SB)
WLB (they almost drafted one)
Top CB (Carr is either good this year or they give his 8.5M salary to a free agent)
Nickel pass rushing DE with Crawford or Selvie as the base LDEs

Lets just say I don't agree with your assessment of our talent. Other than Melton or maybe perhaps someday Lawrence I don't think many guys on our D makes that Seattle team, certainly not in the starting spot. The DTs behind Melton stink, and despite it "not taking much to find similar players" we may be starting Heydan on opening day this year. Crawford has shown nothing so far. Wilber's measurable could be all world but he still can't shed a block. Lee can't stay on the field and who knows how long McClain wants to this time. Granted our CBs would probably look a lot better than they do here in that system, but I'll take Chancellor over Church all day and in our wildest dreams I don't think Wilcox will ever remind anyone of Thomas.

So I disagree, I don't think we are 5 players and some 'easy to find' DTs away from going from the worst defense to a good one. Because even if we manage to fill the holes you mention, the one thing pertinent we can take from SD game is that our depth on D is horrific, and that any point in the season, even if we fill those holes, we could get a few key injuries and the whole thing falls apart again.

To me it's at least two offseasons of everything breaking just right for us, which rarely ever happens around here anyway. And by then who knows if Garret or Marinnelli are even here any more. Maybe Jerry will randomly decide to switch the whole thing up again.

 

[Hostile]

I didn't have a problem trading Bass for a corner. I do agree that Brent will ultimately take his place, and I consider that at least a wash.

Bass is just one of many average to below average DL on this team that we were hoping beyond hope would be more than what they have been. Still have that hope, but it's tempered by the reality of the situation. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than let down by unrealistic expectations.

I wasn't. I didn't expect Bass to make this team, and I don't expect Green to. But the thin roster at CB means I get the trade even if I am unemotional about it either way.

 

[Alexander]

Lets just say I don't agree with your assessment of our talent. Other than Melton or maybe perhaps someday Lawrence I don't think many guys on our D makes that Seattle team, certainly not in the starting spot. The DTs behind Melton stink, and despite it "not taking much to find similar players" we may be starting Heydan on opening day this year. Crawford has shown nothing so far. Wilber's measurable could be all world but he still can't shed a block. Lee can't stay on the field and who knows how long McClain wants to this time. Granted our CBs would probably look a lot better than they do here in that system, but I'll take Chancellor over Church all day and in our wildest dreams I don't think Wilcox will ever remind anyone of Thomas.

So I disagree, I don't think we are 5 players and some 'easy to find' DTs away from going from the worst defense to a good one. Because even if we manage to fill the holes you mention, the one thing pertinent we can take from SD game is that our depth on D is horrific, and that any point in the season, even if we fill those holes, we could get a few key injuries and the whole thing falls apart again.

To me it's at least two offseasons of everything breaking just right for us, which rarely ever happens around here anyway. And by then who knows if Garret or Marinnelli are even here any more. Maybe Jerry will randomly decide to switch the whole thing up again.

People look at the Seattle roster and just think we can be the same.

We can "copy" them. That is what we do, we try to copy whatever is the flavor of the moment. And most of the time we do an awful job at it since the decision makers have zero idea what they are trying to do.

Just add a rotation DL with a bunch of bodies and it is the same. Or something.

There is a difference in how they evaluate players and how we do.

They have a set system. They look for players that fit that system.

They value competition and have a standard.

They will cut players who do not cut it. Look at the fact they cut a high priced QB and their semi-starting RT and now intend to go into the season with a vet off the street in Eric Winston.

It is intellectually dishonest for anyone to say we are anything like the Seahawks in any way, shape or form.

Either that or they simply do not know what on earth it is they are looking at.

 

[BAT]

Cowboys need to focus on stopping run AND creating turnovers each and every down, pass rush will not be strength for this team.

 

[cowboys1981]

We're deeper in our secondary than Dline. IMO that should be flipped around. Games are won and lost on the line.

 

[Falcon554]

how anyone looks at this D line up and not get a bit sick to their stomach is beyond me

 

[big dog cowboy]

how anyone looks at this D line up and not get a bit sick to their stomach is beyond me

What it looks like today isn't what it will look like vs SF or even a few weeks into the regular season. Do I wish it looked better now? Of course. Is it keeping me up all night worrying about it? No.