Most over rated: speed

[TellerMorrow34]

Barry didn't have overly horrible lines, by any means, but there is no comparision, from Tackle to tackle, between his best line and the lines that Emmitt enjoyed here for at least 4 years being possibly the best line in the NFL for running the football. From about the 91-95 seasons Emmitt had a pretty damn good line.

Best ever line? Probably not. And after 1995 he had a decent, or average, line most of the time. But for about a 3-4 seasons run there he had one of the better, if not the best, lines in all of football at the time.

 

[lurkercowboy]

John Riggins had good straight-ahead speed in his younger days. A young Dennis Thurman couldn't catch him in 1979.

As a side note, I once outran one of my school's fastest runners by imagining I was Thurman trying to catch Riggins on that play.

 

[Dodger]

Rack I don't know of an electronic timed 40 on TD. But I assure you that TD was more like a 4.25 guy.

I don't know of any electronic times for Dorsett either, but for anyone who didn't read the article that I provided a link to earlier in this thread, I'll give you the meat of it here: Tony ran a 4.38 40 at the Broncos training camp...when he was 34 years old.

Just imagine what he was capable of running as a rookie.

TD was definately a sub 4.3 guy early in his career.

 

[DFWJC]

John Riggins had good straight-ahead speed in his younger days. A young Dennis Thurman couldn't catch him in 1979.

As a side note, I once outran one of my school's fastest runners by imagining I was Thurman trying to catch Riggins on that play.

John Riggins was a freak to be as big as he was and run around a 4.5 in the early 80s. I just would not have figured him to be that fast, but nobody could catch him in the open field and he was a monster between the tackles first and foremost.

More trivia---The guy was even a 2 time state champion in the 100 yard dash (9.6 seconds).

 

[Rack]

If you try to say otherwise you'll look as dumb as you did when you insisted that JuJo was better than MB3 for no other reason then that he was the starter and MB3 wasn't.

How exactly did he get 16 starts playing special teams? How exactly did he succeed playing ST without being athletic? Really, I'd like to know that.

And there you have it.

 

[AbeBeta]

And there you have it.

As I've pointed out in nearly every thread discussing Barber and Jones, you clearly lack either the intelligence or desire to have an informed discussion of that issue - or as it increasingly turns out - ANY issue. But, please keep misrepresenting my perspective on the JJ vs. Barber issue instead of actually discussing the issue that YOU brought up.

So back to the top, your claim is that Randall Williams' speed did nothing for him. Support that claim or shut your trap.

 

[Rack]

As I've pointed out in nearly every thread discussing Barber and Jones, you clearly lack either the intelligence or desire to have an informed discussion of that issue - or as it increasingly turns out - ANY issue. But, please keep misrepresenting my perspective on the JJ vs. Barber issue instead of actually discussing the issue that YOU brought up.

So back to the top, your claim is that Randall Williams' speed did nothing for him. Support that claim or shut your trap.

You're the last person on this board that has the right to question one's intelligence.


I never misrepresent anything you said about MB3 and JuJo. All the posts are still here. You were flat out wrong about the two and your reasoning was moronic at best.

You just aren't man enough to admit you were completely wrong about those two.

And speaking of misrepresenting, please find where I said Randal Williams' speed "did nothing for him".

 

[AbeBeta]

You're the last person on this board that has the right to question one's intelligence.


I never misrepresent anything you said about MB3 and JuJo. All the posts are still here. You were flat out wrong about the two and your reasoning was moronic at best.

You just aren't man enough to admit you were completely wrong about those two.

And speaking of misrepresenting, please find where I said Randal Williams' speed "did nothing for him".

The posts are there -- you simply can't or won't understand anything but "Barber is great, Julius Sucks!" I was critical of Barber and believe that Julius is a good back -- you can clearly see post after post where I note Barber as the better back. So unless you are referring to my evaluation of these guys after the 2006 season where it was clear who the coaching staff supported and saw as their #1, then all you are doing is reaching and frankly, lying about my view.

Of course this is from the guy who said:

JuJo is no Barry and MB3 is no Emmitt.

So basically we're debating about which one is average and which one is slightly above average. Yay.

Now again, either support your Williams claim or get off the pot

 

[btcutter]

I don't know of any electronic times for Dorsett either, but for anyone who didn't read the article that I provided a link to earlier in this thread, I'll give you the meat of it here: Tony ran a 4.38 40 at the Broncos training camp...when he was 34 years old.

Just imagine what he was capable of running as a rookie.

TD was definately a sub 4.3 guy early in his career.

This just proves that SPEED doesn't mean as much as people think esp. as a RB. 4.38 40 and had to retire.

 

[DFWJC]

This just proves that SPEED doesn't mean as much as people think esp. as a RB. 4.38 40 and had to retire.

:bang2:

 

[joseephuss]

This just proves that SPEED doesn't mean as much as people think esp. as a RB. 4.38 40 and had to retire.

Well once he blew out his knee he no longer had that 4.38 speed.

Speed and 40 times are not over rated. At least not by coaches, scouts and GMs. They use those 40 times correctly for the most part. They don't use it as the be all end all. Just as another tool in their evaluation of players.

The media makes a bigger deal out of 40 times than the actual teams. In that sense it is over rated. For the most part I doubt teams use 40 times as the top basis of a player's evaluation and his prospects of making it in the NFL.

The more information you can get on a player the better. Keep 40 times. Add other tests of strength and athleticism if possible. Can we have 40 times with full pads on as well? Probably too much, so you test what you can and watch as much live footage and tape as possible. It all comes together to determine which player you think will succeed. Maybe in the end, a 40 time can be the tie breaker between two players where everything else is equal. Perhaps two wide receivers who are both tall, both big, both very productive in college against top notch competition, both good students, both good characters, identical wonderlic scores and every and anything else being equal, but one guy runs a 4.3 and the other runs a 4.6.

 

[DFWJC]

Speed and 40 times are not over rated. At least not by coaches, scouts and GMs. They use those 40 times correctly for the most part. They don't use it as the be all end all. Just as another tool in their evaluation of players.
.

I approve of this message.

If someone uses as the top, overriding measure...they are an idiot. If someone ignores it...they too are an idiot. It is one measure, but a very valuable one that should be used rationally.

 

[Rack]

Now again, either support your Williams claim or get off the pot

1. Find where I said his speed got him nowhere. Do it, or SHUT YOUR TRAP.


2. Saying he started 16 games is proof that he is athletic is about as STUPID as it gets. Almost as STUPID as saying JuJo was better than MB3 cuz he was starting. Not to mention some of those starts were when we lost TWO WRs (Glenn and Morgan), and he sucked royally when he got playing time.


You're logic - or rather lack thereof - is freakin' hilarious.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

ladies...

 

[Vintage]

ladies...

Shut up.

You're ruining the Randall Williams debate.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Shut up.

You're ruining the Randall Williams debate.

sorry, Massa, Sambo won't do dun agin

 

[ZeroClub]

Here's the obligatory Renaldo Nehemiah reference.

 

[jterrell]

drills are positionally based.

40 time gets applied far too often at positions where fast players have failed over and over and over again such as running back.
For a running back speed can be a big liability.

A RB needs acceleration(the trait so many covet in McFadden), vision and a low center of gravity. They also need to be able to block. If a guy can do those things they do not need to break 70 yards runs.

WR: speed is hugely overrated at WR. Some guys can play at 100% go and catch the ball and others can not. They get out of control. Body control, strength, hands, route running are all huge WR skills. It is wonderful to be able to blow by CBs and split coverages by scorching the seems but all of that is meaningless if you have a 5 yard cushion on a defender and let the ball fall hopelessly to the ground.

CB: For man to man types speed is key. You have to be able to stay with WRs and to take longer routes ot get to the same spot as they do. I still remember Aaron Glenn in his prime just beating guys to slants and picking the ball. Darrell Green and Deion and Rod Woodson. All pure speed guys who were man corners. I have no idea what Asante Samuel runs today in the 40 but I can guarantee you if he a mere 4.51 guy then the Eagles will regret signing him. Slower corners can make a great living playing in zone schemes or getting help over the top. See Anthony Henry.

 

[Rack]

drills are positionally based.

40 time gets applied far too often at positions where fast players have failed over and over and over again such as running back.
For a running back speed can be a big liability.

A RB needs acceleration(the trait so many covet in McFadden), vision and a low center of gravity. They also need to be able to block. If a guy can do those things they do not need to break 70 yards runs.

WR: speed is hugely overrated at WR. Some guys can play at 100% go and catch the ball and others can not. They get out of control. Body control, strength, hands, route running are all huge WR skills. It is wonderful to be able to blow by CBs and split coverages by scorching the seems but all of that is meaningless if you have a 5 yard cushion on a defender and let the ball fall hopelessly to the ground.

CB: For man to man types speed is key. You have to be able to stay with WRs and to take longer routes ot get to the same spot as they do. I still remember Aaron Glenn in his prime just beating guys to slants and picking the ball. Darrell Green and Deion and Rod Woodson. All pure speed guys who were man corners. I have no idea what Asante Samuel runs today in the 40 but I can guarantee you if he a mere 4.51 guy then the Eagles will regret signing him. Slower corners can make a great living playing in zone schemes or getting help over the top. See Anthony Henry.

I agree with everything, but I still don't think Speed is "Key" for a CB. Now, if a CB can cover, and he knows how to position his body, but also happens to have speed... then you've got yourself a something. But speed isn't required out of that position in order to be an effective, or even great, CB. See Anthony Henry or Everson Walls.


As I said earlier, a CB with great anticipation will get INTs. A CB with great anticipation and great speed, with get INTs and TDs.

 

[jterrell]

I agree with everything, but I still don't think Speed is "Key" for a CB. Now, if a CB can cover, and he knows how to position his body, but also happens to have speed... then you've got yourself a something. But speed isn't required out of that position in order to be an effective, or even great, CB. See Anthony Henry or Everson Walls.


As I said earlier, a CB with great anticipation will get INTs. A CB with great anticipation and great speed, with get INTs and TDs.

I hear what you are saying but CB is the position where raw speed is most needed.

Now there are many difference coverage schemes and guys like Henry will almost always have help over the top. That's because Henry is great when he can play the ball and attack passing routes without being concerned about getting beat deep. But we have seen Henry get abused at times by teams going deep on him.

CB is really tough because you need so many different skills but speed is definitely one of them. Guys that can't chase a WR across the field often struggle in many NFL schemes.

Thats also why even though Henry plays the ball 100 times better than TNew, Newman is still the better cornerback. TNew can chase a guy across the field and he can play a deep out but recover to defend for the out n up.

Its no coincidence Everson ended up at Free safety and Henry has already played some and gets mentioned yearly as a possible fit there again.