Most over rated: speed

[Seven]

You mean this?

Mmmmm...............meadow muffins.

 

[DallasDomination]

some trivia

Here are some present and past RBs who had VERY good speed. It IS one the main things that seperate most of the good ones from the great ones.

M Faulk 5-10 211 4.33
J Addai 5-11 210 4.40
T Dorsett 5-11 192 4.33
Wille Parker 5-10 209 4.28
B Sanders 5-8 203 4.37
L Tomilson 5-10 221 4.38
Jim Brown 6-2 232 sub 4.4 (equivalent to 4.3 now)
Simpson 6-2 212 sub 4.34
Dickerson 6-3 220 sub 4.4

Sanders Change of direction( Cuts) speed and Burst was about 5 notches above any other guy on this list. That's real speed!!

 

[DFWJC]

Sanders Change of direction( Cuts) speed and Burst was about 5 notches above any other guy on this list. That's real speed!!

Nobody compares to Barry Sanders....would've loved to see what he would have done with a great line.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Nobody compares to Barry Sanders....would've loved to see what he would have done with a great line.

Barry Sanders had a great line. I don't know where the misconception that they were terrible comes from.

 

[tomson75]

Barry Sanders had a great line. I don't know where the misconception that they were terrible comes from.

People looking for excuses?

 

[scottsp]

Al Davis' collection of sprinters would be testament to that end. Jessie Hester, Dokie Williams, our very own Alexander Wright, etc., etc.

Nothing at all wrong with speed. Nothing wrong with lightning fast 40 times. But a prospect hanging his hat on nothing more than flat-out straight-line speed will more often than not be hardpressed to make it in the league.

That is particularly true with wideouts, who come in heralded with sprinter speed and not much else. Can't get in and out of their routes. Hell, if they can't get off the LOS, they're no good to anyone.

I would say the same for defensive backs. Straight line speed is nice and all, but they better bring something else to the table.

In all honest, I could care less what an offensive tackle clocks, unless it's just so slow that his time can't be ignored. Another words, I don't necessarily need a 4.8 guy protecting my QB, but the watch better not disqualify the player as a prospect. Quick feet are a must.

Defensive linemen and linebackers would intrigue me moreso from a pursuit standpoint. So I would look a bit harder at the watch there.

Don't get me wrong, these measureables do have value, particularly when comparing prospects holding similar grades. But I do agree that some might too much value on a guy running straight sprints at the dork olympics.

 

[DallasDW00ds0n]

you cant teach speed, its a good barometer of a players raw abilities.

 

[DFWJC]

Barry Sanders had a great line. I don't know where the misconception that they were terrible comes from.

You know Stanley, I may actually be confusing his line with Walter Payton's.

 

[Rack]

you cant teach speed, its a good barometer of a players raw abilities.

Randall Williams disagrees with you. He may be the least athletic WR in history, yet one of the fastest.

 

[DFWJC]

Randall Williams disagrees with you. He may be the least athletic WR in history, yet one of the fastest.

The Rack attack is back. True dat.

 

[Rack]

The Rack attack is back. True dat.

If by Rack Attack you mean "Telling it like it is" then yeah.



Measuring someone's time in the 40 is a good way to measure a person's speed in the 40. It is not a good tool to meausre how fast someone is on the football field.


Not even the best tool available.

 

[AbeBeta]

Randall Williams disagrees with you. He may be the least athletic WR in history, yet one of the fastest.

Yet as much as you claim he sucks, he managed a 6 year NFL career, having played in 67 games, starting 16. Also, you fail to note he went undrafted, a clear sign that his skill level in other areas stank. Despite all this, he still ends up making 2-3 mill for 6 years of work.

I'd say that speed served him pretty damn well in that it helped him to overcome his obvious deficiencies in so many other areas.

 

[DFWJC]

If by Rack Attack you mean "Telling it like it is" then yeah..

Yeah Rack...I was agreeing with you there and making an attempt to be funny...after a few drinks at Mi Cosina.
Cheers.

 

[jobberone]

No, he wasn't.

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki
Still not sure Green was faster. #1 He had a slight angle, #2 Green was a rookie that year, #3 Dorsett had already been in the league several years so I'm betting he wasn't as fast as when he was a rookie.

Tony D was sub 4.3 no doubt.

Rack, you said, "No, he wasn't".

Rack I don't know of an electronic timed 40 on TD. But I assure you that TD was more like a 4.25 guy. How can I be sure? Can't prove it. But Darryl Green chased him for over 50 yds and barely caught him; with a slight angle on TD. And Green was definitely in the 4.25 range. I watched him at Pitt then his entire career at Dallas. If he wasn't a 4.33 guy at least I'll kiss your fanny and give you a week to draw a crowd. Until Green came along he was the fastest player in FB.

Here's some HOF RBs and WRs. Notice how many are real fast guys. Some before times even became vogue. But those I marked as fast ran by the other guys on the field kinda like TD ran past everyone. The times I put down are numbers that reflect how I saw them play. Not sure it means a thing and definitely not for the modern guys. But thought you might find some of the older guys speed thoughts interesting.

Marcus Allen (RB) 1982-1997 you know this guy
Jim Brown (FB) 1957-1965 ditto
Earl Campbell (RB) 1978-1985 ditto
Larry Csonka (FB) 1968-1979 Here's a FB. Not a RB.
Eric Dickerson (RB) 1983-1993 real fast
Tony Dorsett (RB) 1977-1988 real fast
Frank Gifford (HB-FL) 1952-1960, 1962-1964 Gifford was not fast by todays standards. But he ran by people maybe a touch faster than Emmitt was.
Franco Harris (RB) 1972-1984 Here is another FB converted to RB.
Paul Hornung (HB) 1957-1962, 1964-1966 Emmitt + type speed
John Henry Johnson (FB) 1954-1966 Now this guy was fast for a FB High 4.4s
Leroy Kelly (RB) 1964-1973 Another big back put in the I.
Ollie Matson (HB) 1952, 1954-1966 Somewhere between 4.4 and 4.5
Hugh McElhenny (HB) 1952-1964 Almost as fast as Brown. Big too.
Lenny Moore (HB) 1956-1967 4.5
Marion Motley (FB) 1946-1953, 1955 Fast for a big guy. 4.45
Walter Payton (RB) 1975-1987 4.45
Joe Perry (FB) 1948-1963 Big guy.
John Riggins (RB) 1971-1979, 1981-1985 Another big guy. fast right out of college.
Barry Sanders (RB) 1989-1998 sub 4.4
Gale Sayers (HB) 1965-1971 ditto
O.J. Simpson (RB) 1969-1979 4.3
Jim Taylor (FB) 1958-1967 4.6
Thurman Thomas 1988-2000 4.45
Charley Trippi (HB) 1947-1955 I don't remember him

Doak Walker (HB) 1950-1955 Saw him on film. My father played with him on the Army's post war's/Korean Conflict's team. My father was sub 4.5 and he said Doak Walker was about the same. And Blanchard could smoke them both. Doc grew up in a little town I lived in and played ball there. He was remembered as being fast by the ole timer's. No measured times.ENDS, WI

Modern Era: Wide Receivers (19)​

Lance Alworth 1962-1972 4.45
Raymond Berry 1955-1967 SLOW but one of my favorites
Fred Biletnikoff 1965-1978 4.5
Tom Fears 1948-1956 SLOW but greatest hands ever IMO
Elroy (Crazylegs) Hirsch (also HB) 1946-1956 4.4
Michael Irvin 1988-1999 4.55
Charlie Joiner 1969-1986 High 4.4s
Steve Largent 1976-1989 4.54 just faster than Irvin that's to give Fuzzy or Theo something to gig me on and have someone to talk to
Dante Lavelli 1946-1956 Don't know him
James Lofton 1978-1993 sub 4.5
Don Maynard 1958, 1960-1973 4.5
Tommy McDonald 1957-1968 great hands
Bobby Mitchell (also HB) 1958-1968 4.4
Art Monk 1980-1995 4.45
Pete Pihos 1947-1955 He was real man
John Stallworth 1974-1987 4.5
Lynn Swann 1974-1982 4.5
Charley Taylor (also HB) 1964-1975, 1977 4.4 at slowest
Paul Warfield 1964-1977 sub 4.4
__________________

 

[Rack]

Yet as much as you claim he sucks, he managed a 6 year NFL career, having played in 67 games, starting 16. Also, you fail to note he went undrafted, a clear sign that his skill level in other areas stank. Despite all this, he still ends up making 2-3 mill for 6 years of work.

I'd say that speed served him pretty damn well in that it helped him to overcome his obvious deficiencies in so many other areas.

Randall Williams last as long as he did cuz of special teams. End of story.


If you try to say otherwise you'll look as dumb as you did when you insisted that JuJo was better than MB3 for no other reason then that he was the starter and MB3 wasn't.

Rack I don't know of an electronic timed 40 on TD. But I assure you that TD was more like a 4.25

I'm referring to realistic times, not the over exhaggerated times often thrown out there by coaches and players.


But even if I'm wrong, even if Tony D did run a 4.25, it wasn't his SPEED that made him great, it was his quickness and cutback ability.

Cutting back has NOTHING to do with 40 timed speed. Not a single freakin' thing. The ability to burst through a hole, cut on a dime, and accelerate to the outside quickly (AKA FOOTBALL SPEED) cannot be measured by seeing how fast someone runs straight ahead 40 yards wearing shorts.

 

[Haley94]

More than anything, it was TD's vision and his ability to accelerate thru the hole that made him great.

 

[DallasDW00ds0n]

Randall Williams disagrees with you. He may be the least athletic WR in history, yet one of the fastest.

well he does have the fastest TD in NFL history, haha.

 

[Rack]

More than anything, it was TD's vision and his ability to accelerate thru the hole that made him great.

Those as well. Vision, burst, cutback ability, ability to make people miss... none of those have anythign to do with putting your hand down in a track stance and running a 40 yard dash.

well he does have the fastest TD in NFL history, haha.

Touche'.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

You know Stanley, I may actually be confusing his line with Walter Payton's.

Over the years a lot of people have tried to compare Sanders and Smith by noting that Smith was just a product of his OL. The Detroit didn't have a line mantra has been repeated ad nauseum. People tend to disregard Lomas Brown who is a legitimate HOF candidate and Kevin Glover who was better than anything Dallas ever lined up at center during that era. They also kept plugging in former pro bowlers like Bill Fralic and David Richards.

With some great talent at WR and their QBs numbers putting Aikman to shame, the only thing that stopped that team from being an offensive juggernaut was a RB willing to settle for a four yard run setting up second and medium.

 

[AbeBeta]

Randall Williams last as long as he did cuz of special teams. End of story.

How exactly did he get 16 starts playing special teams? How exactly did he succeed playing ST without being athletic? Really, I'd like to know that.