My take on the defense and final three games...it's not coaching

Chuck 54

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,513
Reaction score
12,526
When your front seven is decimated, and you are playing guys out of position and off the street and get no pass rush at all, there is no secondary or scheme that can fix it. The players can execute perfectly and it won't matter because the cannot win the battles.

Most plays, "0" push or even movement inside..."0" pass rush from the outside other than running around behind the QB. Count the plays where QB was hit...count the plays where he was rushed...count the plays where he even had to move off his drop back spot....holy crap, he had yards to step up in the pocket but didn't even need to do so. There was so little pass rush that he didn't even have to wait for receivers to enter passing windows...not even a hand in his vision.

The Bears were literally running a 7 on 7 drill. The receivers were not wide open and running after the catch. The QB could throw it whenever he wanted, and he easily put it in the perfect spots when they were covered...out in front, up high, back corner of end zone high. No secondary or scheme can compete when the QB not only has all day to throw, but worse, doesn't have to wait on passing windows between the big guys....making the QB move off his spot a step or two, making him wait a split second for a receiver to come into an open path for a pass....that is when the secondary has a chance to react and make a play....that's when passes are not perfect...that's how you get off the field a few times.

We had no pass rush at all except when the Bears wanted to let a DE through in order to throw outside and run with it. When we blitzed, we still had very little luck....on one play we brought 6 guys and didn't get close...amazing. When we ran stunts up front or dropped more in coverage in the second half, they ran it down our throats. We are lucky we even have a healthy safety left because they are really taking a beating in run support. The DL is so bad that it makes it easy to wall off the LBs.

Say what you will about the weather, the effort, the coaches, or the gm/owner. Regardless of whom you blame, right now our front 7 cripples any chance the defense has against big receivers and accurate QBs because the DBs can be 6" off them and a decent QB with no defense in front of him can easily put the pass where only the big receiver can get it.

Now, as crappy as we are, and despite the fact that there's no fix for that, the good news is that we will be much more competitive the final three games.

GB...don't have the OL, run game, or receivers the Bears have.
Washington...don't have OL, QB, or big receivers...we will fare better against smaller receivers.
Philly...we have already handled them once...a much more favorable matchup.

Still, I would not get excited. Even if the breaks go our way and the offense can find some consistency, and even if we win the East, this team isn't going anywhere....there's no getting hot in the playoffs with this front seven. The only chance of any success until the front seven is fixed is for the offense to truly dominate with time of possession and 30 points.
 

Chuck 54

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,513
Reaction score
12,526
That's an easy saying to have, but when you lose both your OTs, your QB gets killed in GB. When you lose a starting DE and several DTs on an already thin unit and you play guys off the street in droves, no coaching or level of effort is going to create success in the NFL.

We should be much more upset with a healthy offense that hasn't picked up the slack.
 

RoboQB

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,483
Reaction score
10,762
I agree with both sides here. Yes, it sucks basically playing with 2nd team-type of talent at parts of the Front Seven (Sims makes me want to break my TV sometimes)...but suck it up and play.
 

goshan

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,656
Reaction score
888
Not getting to the QB when we blitz is more coaching/scheme than personnel. They knew exactly what we were doing.
 

Chuck 54

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,513
Reaction score
12,526
I agree with both sides here. Yes, it sucks basically playing with 2nd team-type of talent at parts of the Front Seven (Sims makes me want to break my TV sometimes)...but suck it up and play.

I agree about the blame for the roster someone mentioned, but our DL is not even #2 players. Except for Hatcher, none of these guys would even be on most teams. If your DL cannot beat an OL in 1-1 or even push, there's no scheme.
 

Rack

Federal Agent
Messages
23,906
Reaction score
3,106
That's an easy saying to have, but when you lose both your OTs, your QB gets killed in GB. When you lose a starting DE and several DTs on an already thin unit and you play guys off the street in droves, no coaching or level of effort is going to create success in the NFL.

We should be much more upset with a healthy offense that hasn't picked up the slack.

That's flat out BS. When the Packers won the SB a few years ago they had more players on IR than any other team in the NFL.

Excuses are like buttholes, everybody's got one.
 

RoboQB

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,483
Reaction score
10,762
I agree about the blame for the roster someone mentioned, but our DL is not even #2 players. Except for Hatcher, none of these guys would even be on most teams. If your DL cannot beat an OL in 1-1 or even push, there's no scheme.

Agreed. I was being far too nice by saying 2nd team....I started to say 3rd...but some of these guys aren't any better than camp fodder.
 

Beast_from_East

Well-Known Member
Messages
30,140
Reaction score
27,231
When your front seven is decimated, and you are playing guys out of position and off the street and get no pass rush at all, there is no secondary or scheme that can fix it. The players can execute perfectly and it won't matter because the cannot win the battles.

Most plays, "0" push or even movement inside..."0" pass rush from the outside other than running around behind the QB. Count the plays where QB was hit...count the plays where he was rushed...count the plays where he even had to move off his drop back spot....holy crap, he had yards to step up in the pocket but didn't even need to do so. There was so little pass rush that he didn't even have to wait for receivers to enter passing windows...not even a hand in his vision.

The Bears were literally running a 7 on 7 drill. The receivers were not wide open and running after the catch. The QB could throw it whenever he wanted, and he easily put it in the perfect spots when they were covered...out in front, up high, back corner of end zone high. No secondary or scheme can compete when the QB not only has all day to throw, but worse, doesn't have to wait on passing windows between the big guys....making the QB move off his spot a step or two, making him wait a split second for a receiver to come into an open path for a pass....that is when the secondary has a chance to react and make a play....that's when passes are not perfect...that's how you get off the field a few times.

We had no pass rush at all except when the Bears wanted to let a DE through in order to throw outside and run with it. When we blitzed, we still had very little luck....on one play we brought 6 guys and didn't get close...amazing. When we ran stunts up front or dropped more in coverage in the second half, they ran it down our throats. We are lucky we even have a healthy safety left because they are really taking a beating in run support. The DL is so bad that it makes it easy to wall off the LBs.

Say what you will about the weather, the effort, the coaches, or the gm/owner. Regardless of whom you blame, right now our front 7 cripples any chance the defense has against big receivers and accurate QBs because the DBs can be 6" off them and a decent QB with no defense in front of him can easily put the pass where only the big receiver can get it.

Now, as crappy as we are, and despite the fact that there's no fix for that, the good news is that we will be much more competitive the final three games.

GB...don't have the OL, run game, or receivers the Bears have.
Washington...don't have OL, QB, or big receivers...we will fare better against smaller receivers.
Philly...we have already handled them once...a much more favorable matchup.

Still, I would not get excited. Even if the breaks go our way and the offense can find some consistency, and even if we win the East, this team isn't going anywhere....there's no getting hot in the playoffs with this front seven. The only chance of any success until the front seven is fixed is for the offense to truly dominate with time of possession and 30 points.

Injuries are part of the game...................some teams sack up and some teams dont................The Bears were starting 2 rookies on the offensive line and were playing with their backup QB..........didnt see them making excuses, just winning.

Either Garrett wins the division or he is gone................no excuses............nothing to discuss...............no mulligans..............no what ifs..............either win the division or clean out your office.
 

arglebargle

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,373
Reaction score
409
And those Chicago Bears have exactly the same record the Cowboys do. Wonder if injuries played any part there, too?

Atlanta is not sitting at 3-10 because they are not manly men and are just making excuses. They've had some serious injuries. You don't just fix them by waving your wand and saying toughen it up.
 

NoLuv4Jerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,698
Reaction score
4,911
When your front seven is decimated, and you are playing guys out of position and off the street and get no pass rush at all, there is no secondary or scheme that can fix it. The players can execute perfectly and it won't matter because the cannot win the battles.

Most plays, "0" push or even movement inside..."0" pass rush from the outside other than running around behind the QB. Count the plays where QB was hit...count the plays where he was rushed...count the plays where he even had to move off his drop back spot....holy crap, he had yards to step up in the pocket but didn't even need to do so. There was so little pass rush that he didn't even have to wait for receivers to enter passing windows...not even a hand in his vision.

The Bears were literally running a 7 on 7 drill. The receivers were not wide open and running after the catch. The QB could throw it whenever he wanted, and he easily put it in the perfect spots when they were covered...out in front, up high, back corner of end zone high. No secondary or scheme can compete when the QB not only has all day to throw, but worse, doesn't have to wait on passing windows between the big guys....making the QB move off his spot a step or two, making him wait a split second for a receiver to come into an open path for a pass....that is when the secondary has a chance to react and make a play....that's when passes are not perfect...that's how you get off the field a few times.

We had no pass rush at all except when the Bears wanted to let a DE through in order to throw outside and run with it. When we blitzed, we still had very little luck....on one play we brought 6 guys and didn't get close...amazing. When we ran stunts up front or dropped more in coverage in the second half, they ran it down our throats. We are lucky we even have a healthy safety left because they are really taking a beating in run support. The DL is so bad that it makes it easy to wall off the LBs.

Say what you will about the weather, the effort, the coaches, or the gm/owner. Regardless of whom you blame, right now our front 7 cripples any chance the defense has against big receivers and accurate QBs because the DBs can be 6" off them and a decent QB with no defense in front of him can easily put the pass where only the big receiver can get it.

Now, as crappy as we are, and despite the fact that there's no fix for that, the good news is that we will be much more competitive the final three games.

GB...don't have the OL, run game, or receivers the Bears have.
Washington...don't have OL, QB, or big receivers...we will fare better against smaller receivers.
Philly...we have already handled them once...a much more favorable matchup.

Still, I would not get excited. Even if the breaks go our way and the offense can find some consistency, and even if we win the East, this team isn't going anywhere....there's no getting hot in the playoffs with this front seven. The only chance of any success until the front seven is fixed is for the offense to truly dominate with time of possession and 30 points.

I said it during the game thread. What is Kiffin supposed to do...go out there and bat the ball down? Webb in the back of the endzone was right there....HE or the Safety have to make the play...not Kiffin. Scandrick had a interception that who could not have asked to be any easier. Brandon Carr is getting 50m...when he is man to man on someone...he has to bat the ball down...knock the ball loose....something. Does Jerry have to pay him 50m AND help him cover his guy? DeMarcus Ware was blocked one on one all night. Defense has ZERO chance if Ware can't beat his man a couple of times. These coaches are not TOTALLY to blame. The high paid healthy players on this defense have to make a play at some point.
 

Chuck 54

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,513
Reaction score
12,526
And those Chicago Bears have exactly the same record the Cowboys do. Wonder if injuries played any part there, too?

Atlanta is not sitting at 3-10 because they are not manly men and are just making excuses. They've had some serious injuries. You don't just fix them by waving your wand and saying toughen it up.

Agreed...and I'm not saying these are excuses for losing. I think there's a legitimate excuse for having a terrible defense: shift to 4-3 with questionable personnel and then 3-4 losses on the DL and more at LB. Blame for being short handed? Sure, but it can't be fixed.

Now, I'm not making excuses for Garrett. It's his offense...they've been healthy, and they should be pulling out all the stops to score big every game in order to win. If the offense lost That many starters, we would expect the defense to step up, take more chances, and hold teams down to give us a chance.

I blame the offense for their failures and inconsistency much more than I blame players and coaches for a lousy defense. With the loss of Spencer and Ratliff, Bass and Crawford, we were handicapped from game one vs Giants.

We only win at the hands of the offense, special teams, and turnovers.
 

Fredd

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,995
Reaction score
2,238
I seem to have seen a stat during the week prior to the bears game that their RT led the league in pressures allowed...but, we still didn't have (m)any against them...the team is not talented beyond the starters and half of them are out or playing injured....

...IMO, with a few exceptions, the team has given up...no drive to get to the playoffs
 

unionjack8

Well-Known Member
Messages
22,441
Reaction score
27,103
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Agreed...and I'm not saying these are excuses for losing. I think there's a legitimate excuse for having a terrible defense: shift to 4-3 with questionable personnel and then 3-4 losses on the DL and more at LB. Blame for being short handed? Sure, but it can't be fixed.

Now, I'm not making excuses for Garrett. It's his offense...they've been healthy, and they should be pulling out all the stops to score big every game in order to win. If the offense lost That many starters, we would expect the defense to step up, take more chances, and hold teams down to give us a chance.

I blame the offense for their failures and inconsistency much more than I blame players and coaches for a lousy defense. With the loss of Spencer and Ratliff, Bass and Crawford, we were handicapped from game one vs Giants.

We only win at the hands of the offense, special teams, and turnovers.

People keep talking about Crawford and bass as if they have actually DONE something in their career to show us they have been a huge loss.
THey haven't.
 

CyberB0b

Village Idiot
Messages
12,637
Reaction score
14,101
That's an easy saying to have, but when you lose both your OTs, your QB gets killed in GB. When you lose a starting DE and several DTs on an already thin unit and you play guys off the street in droves, no coaching or level of effort is going to create success in the NFL.

We should be much more upset with a healthy offense that hasn't picked up the slack.

We have had 2 games where the defense hasn't made the opponent punt. That is beyond embarrassing.
 

IrishAnto

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,068
Reaction score
1,997
People keep talking about Crawford and bass as if they have actually DONE something in their career to show us they have been a huge loss.
THey haven't.

Very true.

A couple of weeks ago on the "Lunch Break" they figured that Crawford would do what Hatcher does and I think to myself How do they know we haven't seen enough of him especially in the 4-3.

If Ware can't regain some of his old form, Spencer can't come back from injury and Hatcher leaves for more money we could be in some serious trouble that even a couple of good drafts won't fix.
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
37,111
Reaction score
11,454
Are we that devastated by today's NFL standards when every team has a lot of injuries?

We have two of four starters on the DL. When Lee is out there like he was Sunday, we have our entire starting LB corps. (By all accounts Wilber beat out Durant on merit.) We have our two best corners (Scandrick was starting ahead of Claiborne) and we have our two starting safeties (again, Wilcox is back and available).

Yes, we have a bunch of backups at DL, but it's not like any team has game changers on sitting on the bench there anyway.

And on offense, we don't have anyone hurt anymore from our opening day lineup, do we?

So yeah, we have some guys banged up, but I don't think we're worse off than the average NFL team this time of year. Look at the Bears defense last week -- they were missing Melton, Tillman, and Briggs, their three best players. They were a lot worse off than we were. Our offense should have destroyed them.
 

Nation

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,252
Reaction score
1,919
I for one cannot believe that Jerry Jones' strategy to build around glamor positions and star players as opposed to an excellent DLine and quality depth did not pay off. It has had so much success up to this point.
 

Aurican

Active Member
Messages
196
Reaction score
100
Are we that devastated by today's NFL standards when every team has a lot of injuries?

We have two of four starters on the DL. When Lee is out there like he was Sunday, we have our entire starting LB corps. (By all accounts Wilber beat out Durant on merit.) We have our two best corners (Scandrick was starting ahead of Claiborne) and we have our two starting safeties (again, Wilcox is back and available).

Yes, we have a bunch of backups at DL, but it's not like any team has game changers on sitting on the bench there anyway.

And on offense, we don't have anyone hurt anymore from our opening day lineup, do we?

So yeah, we have some guys banged up, but I don't think we're worse off than the average NFL team this time of year. Look at the Bears defense last week -- they were missing Melton, Tillman, and Briggs, their three best players. They were a lot worse off than we were. Our offense should have destroyed them.

I agree, the injury excuse is old and tired. People act like they are missing all world talent due to injuries when the only one I can think of that would make a difference is Spencer. The truth is Jerry ignored the line and was banking on guys like Ratliff (who was already declining a lot) and Spencer having career years and having little else behind them. If a few injuries every year destroy your entire season and your GM sits on his hands while it's happening then the GM is clearly the one at fault.
 
Top