New Defensive Scheme

[DuncanIso]

No need. You are not lying. A couple of things that give me hope.
First, wise people learn and and evolve. I dont think MM would have hired him if he had not learned and evolved.
Second, I believe we have a great staff of scouts led by McClay that have handicapped by trying to fit a 30 year old system. Hopefully, a newer, more reflexive system will allow the scouts to succeed.

Nolan was hired as DC because he gave MM the OC job at 49ers back in 2005.

 

[DuncanIso]

My only real concern is the secondary. Really looking forward to see something new defensively.

KR is gone and they hired linguist (who???) and Harris to coach up the DBs.

not exactly the A team.

 

[fivetwos]

Broaddus tweeted out that he heard the Cowboys were going linebacker at 17. Then he took it back the next day. I'm only going off the tweets ; I didn't listen to the show.

Good for anyone in the organization who is feeding Broaddus pure crap at this point.

Shame on anyone who gives him anything real.

Its just business and what you all want your team to do.

 

[cern]

Job 1 for a defense is to able to stop inner conference rivals. Skins and eagles will be pass happy. Giants? Who knows. Should be interesting with Garrett as their oc. Ergo, better pass rush and strong secondary.

 

[Redball Express]

So Stephen Jones discussed how our new defense will use a SAM/DPR, which explains why we have so much interest in LBs in this draft.
This was shared from a Mike Nolan defense from a few years ago.

There was some discussion that if we drafted Murray than Smith becomes our SAM/DPR or if we draft Chaisson that he is our SAM/DPR, you can also imagine guys like YGM, Weaver, or Baun playing there. Also, of course, Gregory.

It also makes sense why they are holding on to Crawford, if we see a lot of this alignment. I can see it going:
Chaisson/Gregory/etc.- Crawford - Poe-McCoy-DLaw as the other four. OR - to create mismatches you put DLaw next to the SAM/DPR and then create major headaches on that side. With his size, I can also imagine Aldon Smith playing with his hand on the ground and taking Crawford out of his spot.

Then, when we go nickel - you take out either Poe or Crawford and put in our 3rd corner.

I am kind of excited about the possibilities.

I am still waiting.

At first I liked Martinelli when he arrived.

He had some success.

Then his defenses started getting exploited.

Mostly becuz other OCs had a complete book on him and knew his schemes.

I am concerned the same way here.

I want to wait until mid-season at least.

Then we will know something.

Just because he coaches for Big Mike doesn't mean much this early on.

 

[CCBoy]

I haven't read anywhere that the Cowboys are interested so much in LB's in this draft.

I think that aspect is conjecture based upon the tendency to use a strong nickel base and blitzing/rushing considerations. Jaylon Smith could take the outside position and rush, while the new linebacker filled in at MLB. Then the new LB would be there when Sean Lee departs, and leave a stability behind with this currently strong group.

 

[xwalker]

So Stephen Jones discussed how our new defense will use a SAM/DPR, which explains why we have so much interest in LBs in this draft.
This was shared from a Mike Nolan defense from a few years ago.

There was some discussion that if we drafted Murray than Smith becomes our SAM/DPR or if we draft Chaisson that he is our SAM/DPR, you can also imagine guys like YGM, Weaver, or Baun playing there. Also, of course, Gregory.

It also makes sense why they are holding on to Crawford, if we see a lot of this alignment. I can see it going:
Chaisson/Gregory/etc.- Crawford - Poe-McCoy-DLaw as the other four. OR - to create mismatches you put DLaw next to the SAM/DPR and then create major headaches on that side. With his size, I can also imagine Aldon Smith playing with his hand on the ground and taking Crawford out of his spot.

Then, when we go nickel - you take out either Poe or Crawford and put in our 3rd corner.

I am kind of excited about the possibilities.

That alignment (4 DL plus #17 Kroy Biermann) was their max run defense.
They used it when there was a high probability of a run.
- 3rd and 1
- 1st and 10 against run heavy offenses
- Late game when they were behind and the other team to running to burn clock.

Most often when Beirmann was standing up, they had 3 DL.
3-4 look
3-3-5 look

Their 3-4 look was a strong run defense than their 4-3 because Biermann was a hybrid DE/LB and the generally used an even bigger OLB on the other side such as Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276.

Nolan used Goodman as a different type of hybrid. Goodman often played DE in the 3 man DL and DE in the 4 DL plus Bierman look.

Biermann only played DE in 4 DL alignments.

The Patriots have been doing many similar things on defense the past couple of years to what Nolan did in the past.

One big difference is that the 2014 Falcons talent on defense was very limited.

Looking at their season end roster, I find 3 defensive players that ever made a Pro Bowl in their careers.
DL Solari 1 career Pro Bowl
CB Desmond Trufant 1 career Pro Bowl
DE Osi Umenyiora - Near the end of his career. Didn't start and only played 31% of the snaps that season.

 

[DuncanIso]

I am still waiting.

At first I liked Martinelli when he arrived.

He had some success.

Then his defenses started getting exploited.

Mostly becuz other OCs had a complete book on him and knew his schemes.

I am concerned the same way here.

I want to wait until mid-season at least.

Then we will know something.

Just because he coaches for Big Mike doesn't mean much this early on.

you work for the people you know.

nolan got the DC job because he helped MM back in 2005 when MM needed a job.

nolan hasn’t had a DC job since 2014, for good reason. He was a freakin disaster in Atlanta.

stephen has been talking up the D scheme lately, but it doesn’t look good. At least we have Edwards (who Stephen didn’t even mention) and Tomsula.

the secondary coaches are not much better. Linguist (who????) and Harris, who was fired after the KC meltdown in the playoffs a few years ago. But he has a GB Link.

Again, you work with the people you know.

 

[quickccc]

I haven't read anywhere that the Cowboys are interested so much in LB's in this draft.

yeh just guess working off meeting. visual visits and interviews, i'm not seeing only a very few number of 4-3 like LBs and that's been just kenneth murray and patrick queen as biggest front runners.
it's gonna be a big signal if any one of those (murray, queen) are picked by us, imo,.
Otherwise looking at the visiting list, it's been a host of "edge-rushers " galore. whether that means 4-3 DEs and/or guys that can easily translate into 3-4 pass rushing OLBs.

interesting enough, i heard from stellar QB players like Peyton Manning who have said that it isn't so much the edge pass rush from 3-4 OLBs on defenses that gave him
the most problems, as it was the way those 3-4 guys can immediately drop off into passing lanes at snap, whether it be one side or another ,,,right or left,
so it was hard for him to get a clue if lanes and areas were really open.
Whether they were really coming off the line as rushers ...or surprising him by backing off and dropping on occasions .

 

[Sandyf]

Would suggest fans watch some of the highlights or games if possible of Oklahoma. Watch Murray and you will see him line up as a SAM LB in traditional 4-3 sets, as a DE in traditional 4-3 sets, but most often is sets much like Nolan's with the SAM/DPR sets. Will it surprise me is we draft Murray at 17, yes it would but wouldn't surprise me a bit to see us trade down and then take him.

Have you seen Bugler mock even had Murray falling to the top of the 2nd which I doubt. One thing to ponder is that this draft will be different than any other draft and I doubt any mock is even close to correct.

 

[xwalker]

you work for the people you know.

nolan got the DC job because he helped MM back in 2005 when MM needed a job.

nolan hasn’t had a DC job since 2014, for good reason. He was a freakin disaster in Atlanta.

stephen has been talking up the D scheme lately, but it doesn’t look good. At least we have Edwards (who Stephen didn’t even mention) and Tomsula.

the secondary coaches are not much better. Linguist (who????) and Harris, who was fired after the KC meltdown in the playoffs a few years ago. But he has a GB Link.

Again, you work with the people you know.

Nolan's defenses were generally good when he had enough good talent.

There were years like 2014 when his defense was mostly late round picks and udfa types.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

No need. You are not lying. A couple of things that give me hope.
First, wise people learn and and evolve. I dont think MM would have hired him if he had not learned and evolved.
Second, I believe we have a great staff of scouts led by McClay that have handicapped by trying to fit a 30 year old system. Hopefully, a newer, more reflexive system will allow the scouts to succeed.

They BOTH are coming off fired jobs.........pretty sure they're telling each other, we can't afford to screw this up (lol).

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Would suggest fans watch some of the highlights or games if possible of Oklahoma. Watch Murray and you will see him line up as a SAM LB in traditional 4-3 sets, as a DE in traditional 4-3 sets, but most often is sets much like Nolan's with the SAM/DPR sets. Will it surprise me is we draft Murray at 17, yes it would but wouldn't surprise me a bit to see us trade down and then take him.

Have you seen Bugler mock even had Murray falling to the top of the 2nd which I doubt. One thing to ponder is that this draft will be different than any other draft and I doubt any mock is even close to correct.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!....way too many unverifiable factors/elements every team is dealing with. As stated in another thread, I keep reading/hearing scouts/GMs and others say many fans are going be surprised/shocked out high or low certain players are actually selected.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

That alignment (4 DL plus #17 Kroy Biermann) was their max run defense.
They used it when there was a high probability of a run.
- 3rd and 1
- 1st and 10 against run heavy offenses
- Late game when they were behind and the other team to running to burn clock.

Most often when Beirmann was standing up, they had 3 DL.
3-4 look
3-3-5 look

Their 3-4 look was a strong run defense than their 4-3 because Biermann was a hybrid DE/LB and the generally used an even bigger OLB on the other side such as Malliciah Goodman 6-4, 276.

Nolan used Goodman as a different type of hybrid. Goodman often played DE in the 3 man DL and DE in the 4 DL plus Bierman look.

Biermann only played DE in 4 DL alignments.

The Patriots have been doing many similar things on defense the past couple of years to what Nolan did in the past.

One big difference is that the 2014 Falcons talent on defense was very limited.

Looking at their season end roster, I find 3 defensive players that ever made a Pro Bowl in their careers.
DL Solari 1 career Pro Bowl
CB Desmond Trufant 1 career Pro Bowl
DE Osi Umenyiora - Near the end of his career. Didn't start and only played 31% of the snaps that season.

This might explain signing Dante Flowers to a huge deal ($15M per) and everything I'm hearing is they want one of the top 2 CBs so bad that they may trade up.