NFL files motion for Hardy Evidence

Rogah

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What Ray Rice did, is almost what this guy did, but his was on video. I am glad that Rice is getting blacklisted.
Me too. I just think the media as well as the public (and that includes all of us) are very hypocritical on the subject. We came down hard on Ray Rice, and deservedly so. Yet we have given a free pass to many others who did things that were even worse.

Terrell Suggs comes to mind. He makes Ray Rice look like a Boy Scout. However there's no video footage, hence no public outcry. So he gets to continue his role of media darling and fan favorite.
 

CashMan

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Me too. I just think the media as well as the public (and that includes all of us) are very hypocritical on the subject. We came down hard on Ray Rice, and deservedly so. Yet we have given a free pass to many others who did things that were even worse.

Terrell Suggs comes to mind. He makes Ray Rice look like a Boy Scout. However there's no video footage, hence no public outcry. So he gets to continue his role of media darling and fan favorite.

Cough ray Lewis cough
 

JDSmith

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Nobody knows if what Hardy did is anything like what Ray Rice did. That's pure unfounded speculation.
 

Idgit

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That seems to be the only defense of Hardy: that the judge acted improperly or had some sort of axe to grind or simply decided to find someone guilty of a major crime because they were all in a hurry to get to the next case.

While I agree injustices happen in our legal system, I don't just casually *assume* someone found guilty of a crime was only found guilty because the judge had some sort of highly-unethical motives in play.

That's not the only defense at all. This is yet another case where there's not enough publicly available evidence for the public to know for sure, but there are the 911 tapes, on both sides, that paint different pictures. And there's the report that the accuser's testimony in the bench trial reportedly was not consistent with what she told police at the time of the incident. The accuser's alleged involvement with drugs is probably another factor that ought to be weighed in evaluating the possible motivations for her testimony. As should the video evidence that Hardy's team reportedly had available for the jury trial. However you look at it, they were pretty confident all along that this was going to play out in their favor eventually.

It's not much of a stretch for a judge to come to one conclusion based on the accuser's testimony, and for that decision to be vacated later when the key witness declines to testify and the prosecution declines to proceed because of inconsistencies between her early testimony and the police record.

As for a payoff, we don't actually know if that happened or not, but that, too, is something I'd expect to be offered whether he did it or not. If he did it, you pay her to try to settle things (though it's worth noting in Carolina that this sort of quid-pro-quo deal would be illegal if proven). If he didn't do it, I can still see it making sense to settle with no admission of guilt given his timeline heading into NFL free agency. The extra time and publicity a trial would entail could easily cost him his availability at the start of FA this year. And it also opens up the NFL to more second-guessing if he's restated in time, making it more likely his suspension might be upheld a bit longer than it otherwise would.

The reality is, we don't have enough information to know what really went on in the Hardy case.

We do have a pretty good idea that he's got a screw or two loose, though. It'll be interesting to hear--if we ever do--what the team thinks of him as a potential FA target. He's a heck of a football player, for sure.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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People use steroids, and do not get arrested, but that does not mean it did not happen.

Not sure this is really a conclusive argument. In society, the use of Steroids, without a prescription is illegal I believe.
 

Rogah

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That's not the only defense at all. This is yet another case where there's not enough publicly available evidence for the public to know for sure, but there are the 911 tapes, on both sides, that paint different pictures. And there's the report that the accuser's testimony in the bench trial reportedly was not consistent with what she told police at the time of the incident. The accuser's alleged involvement with drugs is probably another factor that ought to be weighed in evaluating the possible motivations for her testimony.
I'm sure all of those things were brought up in the bench trial and yet the judge still found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
It's not much of a stretch for a judge to come to one conclusion based on the accuser's testimony, and for that decision to be vacated later when the key witness declines to testify and the prosecution declines to proceed because of inconsistencies between her early testimony and the police record.
They declined to proceed based primarily on her lack of cooperation going forward.
As for a payoff, we don't actually know if that happened or not,
We know there was an out of court settlement whereby she has agreed not to testify or pursue a civil suit against him. It is not even remotely plausible to suggest that she gave up her right to testify and she gave up her right to sue him without receiving dollar compensation in return.
but that, too, is something I'd expect to be offered whether he did it or not.
Yeah. Sure. Nothing says "I'm innocent" more than paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone.
If he did it, you pay her to try to settle things (though it's worth noting in Carolina that this sort of quid-pro-quo deal would be illegal if proven).
Source, please? Keep in mind that this was an out-of-court settlements negotiated between lawyers. I'd like to see where you are hearing that that is illegal in North Carolina.
 

JDSmith

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Source, please? Keep in mind that this was an out-of-court settlements negotiated between lawyers. I'd like to see where you are hearing that that is illegal in North Carolina.

I'm just guessing, but I think the legal issue is that it wasn't her vs him, it was the state vs him, and she was a witness. And if he paid her not to testify that would probably count as 'witness tampering' and likely be a felony. An out of court settlement in a civil case is one thing, but paying a witness not to testify in a criminal case would likely get one in big trouble.

But that's just speculation on my part.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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One of the posters was implying, if a guy doesn't do jail time, he shouldn't get penalized by the NFL.

I can't speak for that but I can say this. Most of the posts I've read here are not implying that. I think the point being made is that you have to have credible evidence and not just hearsay or tabloid print to base decisions on.
 

CashMan

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I can't speak for that but I can say this. Most of the posts I've read here are not implying that. I think the point being made is that you have to have credible evidence and not just hearsay or tabloid print to base decisions on.

How does one acquire credible evidence, if the aggressor paid off the victim?
 

ABQCOWBOY

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How does one acquire credible evidence, if the aggressor paid off the victim?

Is there proof that this happened? Doesn't matter what any person might think. You have to be able to prove it.
 

JDSmith

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How does one acquire credible evidence, if the aggressor paid off the victim?

You are really eager to portray her as a victim and him as an aggressor. Even though he tried to leave and she blocked his car and then kicked it, breaking her toenail. She was also coked up and drinking. We know that because one of the witnesses took the fifth when asked if she was snorting coke with the 'victim.'

Just based on the witnesses from when they were out in public, the 'victim' was also the aggressor. Yeah, he was a moron for even taking her back to his apartment, but you are assuming that once they got there he suddenly became the aggressor and she turned into a meek little kitten. I find that a little hard to believe.

I also think it's interesting that you are so sure he paid her off. The only person who said that was the DA, who would of course imply something like that to save face since his case just went poof. If they have proof that he paid her off then they'll be pressing charges, I'm sure.
 

CashMan

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Is there proof that this happened? Doesn't matter what any person might think. You have to be able to prove it.

Well, that is what is soo great about our legal system, you can buy things.

I am all for all the facts to come out. What doesn't add up to make, is a woman, who was assaulted, and had EVERYTHING to gain from this, just is a no show, ending the case. Doesn't make sense, and when something doesn't make sense, then I question why.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Well, that is what is soo great about our legal system, you can buy things.

I am all for all the facts to come out. What doesn't add up to make, is a woman, who was assaulted, and had EVERYTHING to gain from this, just is a no show, ending the case. Doesn't make sense, and when something doesn't make sense, then I question why.

There could be a million different things that happened that we don't know about. However, none of that really matters. You have to be able to prove that somebody did something wrong. If you can't do that, then you can't hold him accountable. That's how it's supposed to work. If you don't support those few simple principles, then you have nothing.
 

Rogah

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I'm just guessing, but I think the legal issue is that it wasn't her vs him, it was the state vs him, and she was a witness. And if he paid her not to testify that would probably count as 'witness tampering' and likely be a felony. An out of court settlement in a civil case is one thing, but paying a witness not to testify in a criminal case would likely get one in big trouble.

But that's just speculation on my part.
Out of court settlements are not even remotely considered witness tampering.
 

Rogah

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Is there proof that this happened? Doesn't matter what any person might think. You have to be able to prove it.
Unless just about every article written about this topic in the past week is wrong, we know there was an out of court settlement. As I mentioned above, it is not even remotely plausible to believe that there was an out of court settlement whereby the victim agreed not to testify and agreed not to sue without getting compensated for those concessions.
You have to be able to prove that somebody did something wrong. If you can't do that, then you can't hold him accountable. That's how it's supposed to work. If you don't support those few simple principles, then you have nothing.
The criminal courts of law have to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that somebody did something wrong. Other institutions, such as civil court or the NFL, do not have so high of a threshold. They can act on the preponderance of evidence
 
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