NFL Officiating Scandal

Kaiser

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Where are you now getting ten years from?

1993 was the year that abnormal stats began to appear, with guys like Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds taking crazy jumps in their stat lines. From 1993 to the first "unofficial" testing in 2003 is ....without checking fingers and toes.... ten years.

1998 was the year of the McGuire and Sosa HR race and steroids were a huge part of the discussion, but MLB advertised the competition day and night because they were raking money in from the ratings.

1996 was the year Brady Anderson went from a part time CF hitting 3 or 4 HR per year to a guy hitting FIFTY. I watched a Saturday national guy that year where all of the color commentary was about trying to explain that, with the party line from MLB that it was because they were using balls with different stitching.

That was 8 years before they actually tested anyone with punishment attached, it went only for a long, long time with the tacit approval of MLB because they were making a ton of money off it.
 

Kaiser

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Also @CalPolyTechnique, you haven't addressed this point.

Here is a link to the stats of judgement call penalities and the timeline that it dramatically changed the week Jerry challenged Goodell's contract:

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/timeline-of-goodells-contract-and-holding-penalties.391290/

For the third time, address the actual number of penalites. This is the third time I've posted it, you can't claim we are making this stuff up and duck the actual numbers.
 

Kaiser

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That's not how it works in realtime. There are so many factors that go into a sea change including just acknowledging that there is a problem, fact-finding, collecting evidence, modifying the CBA, negotiating with the MLBPA, et cetera.

Steroids were against the MLB rules in 1991 before any of this happened. How is the actual testing a "sea change"? The "fact finding, acknowleding the problem", etc that you list happened more than a decade before they did any testing.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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1993 was the year that abnormal stats began to appear, with guys like Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds taking crazy jumps in their stat lines. From 1993 to the first "unofficial" testing in 2003 is ....without checking fingers and toes.... ten years.

1998 was the year of the McGuire and Sosa HR race and steroids were a huge part of the discussion, but MLB advertised the competition day and night because they were raking money in from the ratings.

1996 was the year Brady Anderson went from a part time CF hitting 3 or 4 HR per year to a guy hitting FIFTY. I watched a Saturday national guy that year where all of the color commentary was about trying to explain that, with the party line from MLB that it was because they were using balls with different stitching.

That was 8 years before they actually tested anyone with punishment attached, it went only for a long, long time with the tacit approval of MLB because they were making a ton of money off it.

Oh, I'm sorry. You're actually treating your unsubstantiated opinion as fact and then setting arbitrary timelines in your mind like the rest of us have to play along (eg. "That's 10 years!").

All the rest of your post is just a recap of history. Yeah, MLB was hoping up two players in 1998 that were both neck and neck pushing 60+ HRs....go figure. The stench of a league wide problem didn't start arising until the late 90s (perhaps as early as 2006 w/Brady Anderson) or early 2000s. The survey testing, which only came about after MLBPA agreed to it, came in 2003.

To think that the league should have suspected something in 1993 when Barry Bonds, already an established star and power hitter saw his HRs take a jump from 33 to 46 is silly. Spikes in power have been happening since HRs were recorded. Gorman Thomas had 32 HRs in 1978. His previous high was 10. Should we start the steroid era in '78?
 

CalPolyTechnique

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Steroids were against the MLB rules in 1991 before any of this happened. How is the actual testing a "sea change"? The "fact finding, acknowleding the problem", etc that you list happened more than a decade before they did any testing.

Lol, what are you even arguing?

Yes, steroids were on the list of band substances going back to 1991. Did MLB baseball have a league wide problem with steroids in 1991 the way it did in the early 2000s? Are you really trying to argue this?

MLB also didn't have a testing protocol in place for PEDs at that point.

Again, this is all helping yourself to hindsight, treating yourself to information and events that have already occurred and going back in time and questioning why those uninformed at the time didn't respond faster as if they were fully informed.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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For the third time, address the actual number of penalites. This is the third time I've posted it, you can't claim we are making this stuff up and duck the actual numbers.

What is there to dispute?

You're looking at a set of data, identifying an anomoly and forwarding your theory, wanting me to treat your conclusion as fact.

This thinking is cousin to pointing out Kennedy and Lincoln both having seven letters in their names and claiming there's a clear connection in that coincendence. Even sillier, I tell you "well, if there's no connection then explain why there's 7 letters in each name?"

It's like "no, I don't dispute there's seven letters in each name, but that doesn't the equate to the assassinations being linked."
 

Kaiser

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Yeah, MLB was hoping up two players in 1998 that were both neck and neck pushing 60+ HRs....go figure. The stench of a league wide problem didn't start arising until the late 90s (perhaps as early as 2006 w/Brady Anderson) or early 2000s. The survey testing, which only came about after MLBPA agreed to it, came in 2003.

I don't think you even know what you are arguing any more. MLB knew there was a steroid problem and it was a national discussion. They dragged their feet for years because they were making money off it.

Your posts have gone from "they were behind on testing technology" to "it wasn't a league wide problem". You are still dodging the point that applies to the NFL under Goodell - the league officials did what made the league the most money even no matter what their public statement were.
 

Kaiser

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It's like "no, I don't dispute there's seven letters in each name, but that doesn't the equate to the assassinations being linked."

No, its like you have never used stats in your life. A variance of six to one within a well defined data set over three quarters of a season isn't an anomoly. It is a fact.

I guess I should thank you for actually looking at the numbers after arguing against them for months.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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No, its like you have never used stats in your life. A variance of six to one within a well defined data set over three quarters of a season isn't an anomoly. It is a fact.

I guess I should thank you for actually looking at the numbers after arguing against them for months.

Let me help you because you clearly don’t know what a standard bell curve is or what a statistical anomaly (i.e. an outlier) is? Nobody is disputing the raw data on its face (i.e. lack of holding calls over prolonged number of games...).

Your subjective conclusions and associated theories based off the numbers are not “facts,” they’re opinions.
 
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CalPolyTechnique

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I don't think you even know what you are arguing any more. MLB knew there was a steroid problem and it was a national discussion. They dragged their feet for years because they were making money off it.

Your posts have gone from "they were behind on testing technology" to "it wasn't a league wide problem". You are still dodging the point that applies to the NFL under Goodell - the league officials did what made the league the most money even no matter what their public statement were.

Uh, no, that’s not at all what I’ve been saying.
 

DogFace

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Cal Poly is a great poster, we just have completely opposite viewpoints. He makes his case in a positve way, unlike the guy who say everyone is an emotional idiot (right before he cries about being bullied).
Well, he did say my coming to this thread was like a fly coming to cow****. I guess I’ll view that as a positive :)

Flies are very resourceful :dance:
 

MarcusRock

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Let me help you because you clearly don’t know what a standard bell curve is or what a statistical anomaly (i.e. an outlier) is? Nobody is disputing the raw data on its face (i.e. lack of holding calls over prolonged number of games...).

Your subjective conclusions and associated theories based off the numbers are not “facts,” they’re opinions.

As I said before, it's a train that doesn't actually go anywhere, it only keeps moving. You'll never get anywhere in a "stats in a vacuum" argument. Nevermind that the stats are given against an average not showing whom else might an outlier and thus a "target" of the NFL. Nevermind that there's no context as to whether this happens every year to multiple teams or not (which is the question about the holding stats none of them will or can answer). Nevermind that none of them witnessed each of those penalties to see if the Cowboys actually were guilty of them or have assessed that we're just an undisciplined team. All they see is Cowboys 5 penalties, opponents 4 - CONSPIRACY! It's easy to lead on those without critical thinking skills around here. Just yell "we wuz robbed," show a picture of an official smiling with an opponent, and you too can be a pied piper.
 

aria

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Regardless of the teams the league should finish the season with the same rule.
Probably but if both teams were playing under the same rule and it therefore didn’t effect the outcome of the game then it’s not a big deal.
 

Kaiser

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Let me help you because you clearly don’t know what a standard bell curve is or what a statistical anomaly (i.e. an outlier) is? Nobody is disputing the raw data on its face (i.e. lack of holding calls over prolonged number of games...).

Your subjective conclusions and associated theories based off the numbers are not “facts,” they’re opinions.

I'll be kind and say you are the only person on Earth that thinks that is a standard distribution. A distribution of 12 data points (quarters) at the 50th percentile and 48 data points at the 5th percentile isn't a "standard bell curve". Its acutally the opposite and its a first day of stats class example.

If you sent your kid to college and they come home saying "I got 3 B's and 12 F's", apparently you would tell them it was a standard distribution and perfectly fine.
 

dallasdave

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:lmao: that's 'my' 3x5" index card ZEBRA shirted HERO flag caster:thumbup:


Pretty sure he was the 'leading edge' of a septic tank assault tsunami in 2014,,,er,,, it had to be that" inside the casing-liner" smirking he was sporting in that Raiders 3x5" index card game of last season that pulled me back into the fold of "GENE the OFFICIAL of NFL laws" FANDOM!

* Man,we've been getting HOSED coming & going,,, perennially,,,it was rather enjoyable to witness
( however brief & meaningless as it was) for once ,even if it was nationally televised being as blatantly obvious as it was! that hose getting stuck up the 'other guys' casing-liner for ONCE:thumbup:
'leading edge' of a septic tank assault tsunami in 2014,,,:omg::omg::omg::omg::eek::eek::eek:
 

percyhoward

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Simply post the comparable streak of no holds and I’ll admit I overreacted to the one on the Cowboys.
I looked for something like that at the time this was going on, and I'm pretty sure Denver went through a similar stretch, for whatever that's worth.

If anyone wants to check it out, here are all the 2017 holding calls by week. Click on the week, and look in the "Beneficiary" column for each week.
 

MarcusRock

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In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

"We wuz robbed, I tells ya. Just look at that crooked painted sideline and tell me they didn't do that knowing the Cowboys throw sideline passes so they'd all be called out of bounds. Goodell is after us and Bigfoot roams free in the Pacific Northwest but you have to go find him to prove it."
 
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