NFLN: Charles Haley makes/Jimmy Johnson misses final 15 for Pro football HOF

[Eric_Boyer]

Absolutely right. Now ask yourself another question (and in that context think about flaming stars that burn bright): How much effort, energy, emotion, blood, sweat and tears were expended in that "short" period of time in Dallas? What do you think Jimmy sacrificed to build what he built while in Dallas? He gave everything he had to the Cowboys; to the point you could argue he didn't have anything else to give while in Miami. I'd love to disobey forum rules when thinking about the folks that say he doesn't belong in the HOF. My *** he doesn't belong.

he doesn't even belong on a list of people to even consider. elect him to the college football hall of fame, but he shouldn't even sniff canton.

 

[trueblue1687]

There are no coaches that start out with nothing if we are speaking literally, but were aren't. It is just a phrase or common term for a bad situation. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers were a "bad situation" for years. By the time Dungy arrived they weren't nearly as bad as they had been in previous seasons. Dungy's success with the Colts would have been much different if he didn't already have Peyton Manning in place, which makes that a good situation. He isn't winning playoff games if the Colts still had Jeff George around. That wouldn't have made him a better or worse coach, but it sure would have changed his record. That is why you just can't look at the numbers and look at the whole situation.

While Mora had the colts to the Championship in '99 with Manning, the team backslid the next couple of years and was 6-10 the year Dungy was hired...they were 10-6 the following year. Dungy had some good stock to work with, but they were a sub .500 team when he came on board...I can't say I buy the "other coach's team" line though. In the end, it's all speculative aside from the black letter stats...we'll never know whether Jeff George would have done better or worse under Dungy, although I agree that George wasn't in Mannings league.

 

[joseephuss]

While Mora had the colts to the Championship in '99 with Manning, the team backslid the next couple of years and was 6-10 the year Dungy was hired...they were 10-6 the following year. Dungy had some good stock to work with, but they were a sub .500 team when he came on board...I can't say I buy the "other coach's team" line though. In the end, it's all speculative aside from the black letter stats...we'll never know whether Jeff George would have done better or worse under Dungy, although I agree that George wasn't in Mannings league.

I never considered the Bucs or Colts as "other coach's teams", but the contributions of those previous coaches can't be ignored. They laid some groundwork and then Dungy came in and made it his team at both stops. He didn't have to face the challenge of doing both things. That doesn't make it Wyche's team(Bucs) or Mora's team(Colts), but Dungy didn't have to totally rebuild either franchise.

Earlier you said no coach starts with nothing. Tom Landry started with nothing. No draft his first year and no real chance to get players off of other teams.

 

[jterrell]

Jimmy should go in the Ring of Honor, but he is not a Hall of Fame worthy Coach.
He simply doesn't measure up to those already in.

2 SBs is fine but his overall body of work is just too short.
Had he coached another decade I am sure he'd have gotten in.
55% winning percentage was solid but not more than that.
9-4 playoff record is special by percentage but not total wins and is hurt by being only 2-3 in his final 4 years as Dolphins HC.

Johnson only had 4 double digit win NFL seasons.
Landry had a streak of 6 and then a streak of 7....

 

[mldardy]

Jimmy should go in the Ring of Honor, but he is not a Hall of Fame worthy Coach.
He simply doesn't measure up to those already in.

2 SBs is fine but his overall body of work is just too short.
Had he coached another decade I am sure he'd have gotten in.
55% winning percentage was solid but not more than that.
9-4 playoff record is special by percentage but not total wins and is hurt by being only 2-3 in his final 4 years as Dolphins HC.

Johnson only had 4 double digit win NFL seasons.
Landry had a streak of 6 and then a streak of 7....

I supported the fact that he is a HOF coach a few pages back. There are at least 4 coaches without worse resumes than Jimmys that are in the HOF. No Jimmy shouldn't and isn't a first ballot HOF coach but he is a HOF coach. Longevity has nothing to do with it. His impact in turning around a franchise into a dynasty is enough to put him in the HOF.

 

[Gameover]

Charles Haley is overrated. He's Horace grant

 

[Frosty]

Jimmy should go in the Ring of Honor, but he is not a Hall of Fame worthy Coach.
He simply doesn't measure up to those already in.

2 SBs is fine but his overall body of work is just too short.
Had he coached another decade I am sure he'd have gotten in.
55% winning percentage was solid but not more than that.
9-4 playoff record is special by percentage but not total wins and is hurt by being only 2-3 in his final 4 years as Dolphins HC.

Johnson only had 4 double digit win NFL seasons.
Landry had a streak of 6 and then a streak of 7....

I beg to differ, you can't compare Jimmy Johnson to Tom Landry. But you can compare Jimmy Johnson to Tony Dungy and Marv Levy. Jimmy Johnson did more for the NFL in the 1990s and the Dallas Cowboys than most coaches do in a lifetime....Think about 1and 15 season in 1989, the drafts, the trades, and turning a losing franchise into a 13-3 Superbowl winner in 4 years, and then back to back Superbowl wins. Totally responsible for the 3 out of the 5 Superbowl Trophies that sits at Valley Ranch. So if not Jimmy Johnson than who is worthy of the HOF?

IMO, Jerry Jones still has deep hatred of Jimmy Johnson. Why do I say that? If Jerry Jones truly has made up with Jimmy Johnson he would be in the Ring of Honor along with Aikman, Irvin, Emmitt. In the end, I really believe Jerry Jones is blocking Jimmy Johnson HOF ballet. Jerry Jones has proved to be one stubborn dude and no matter how Jerry spins it in the public view he will never put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor or support him for the HOF. Unless Jerry has passed away or in the HOF first.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Also keep in mind guys that this is Jimmy's first time as a finalist, if I remember correctly..............so its not like he is never going to be in the HOF, its just that he might not be a first ballot HOF, primarily due to his short coaching career.


Irvin didnt get in on his first try either, but he eventually did..........................probably the same thing is going to happen with Jimmy, he will get in eventually just not as a first ballot.


My .02

 

[Carolina Cowboy]

he doesn't even belong on a list of people to even consider. elect him to the college football hall of fame, but he shouldn't even sniff canton.

I'll bet if you asked the players that played for him him Dallas, of whom I give a bit more credence as to their opinions, they would beg to differ. Particularly the three that are already there.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

I'll bet if you asked the players that played for him him Dallas, of whom I give a bit more credence as to their opinions, they would beg to differ. Particularly the three that are already there.

hahaha.

and I bet if I asked your mom, she would say you are a genius.

it means about as much.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I wouldn't be upset if Jimmy made it. I just thing longevity does him in. It's the same way that I don't think Terrell Davis gets in.

 

[jterrell]

I beg to differ, you can't compare Jimmy Johnson to Tom Landry. But you can compare Jimmy Johnson to Tony Dungy and Marv Levy. Jimmy Johnson did more for the NFL in the 1990s and the Dallas Cowboys than most coaches do in a lifetime....Think about 1and 15 season in 1989, the drafts, the trades, and turning a losing franchise into a 13-3 Superbowl winner in 4 years, and then back to back Superbowl wins. Totally responsible for the 3 out of the 5 Superbowl Trophies that sits at Valley Ranch. So if not Jimmy Johnson than who is worthy of the HOF?

IMO, Jerry Jones still has deep hatred of Jimmy Johnson. Why do I say that? If Jerry Jones truly has made up with Jimmy Johnson he would be in the Ring of Honor along with Aikman, Irvin, Emmitt. In the end, I really believe Jerry Jones is blocking Jimmy Johnson HOF ballet. Jerry Jones has proved to be one stubborn dude and no matter how Jerry spins it in the public view he will never put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor or support him for the HOF. Unless Jerry has passed away or in the HOF first.

Umm... your chosen examples are terrible.
Levy was a head coach for 17 years. He won at a higher percentage than Jimmy.
He won twice as many playoff games and went to twice as many SBs.

Tony Dungy has 13 years as an NFL head coach and won at a higher percentage than Jimmy.
19 playoff wins for over twice as many and a SB trophy.

Jerry has nothing to do with Jimmy getting in the Hall of Fame or not.
Jimmy chose to walk away from football early because it was a grind.
That's why he isn't in. Jimmy didn't need Jerry to get a job in Miami and he didn't need him to get him a job at FOX.

Jimmy did great things here and as a collegiate coach he was every bit as impressive.
But he isn't going to measure up to NFL head coaches who handled that grind for 12-20 years in most cases and some like Landry far more.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

The crazy thing is that Jerry will probably end up in the HOF and Jimmy won't... lol

 

[Carolina Cowboy]

hahaha.

and I bet if I asked your mom, she would say you are a genius.

it means about as much.

It means a hell of a lot more than a bunch of know-it-alls blithering back and forth, dropping one liners on a message board (Even if it is the best around).

Oh and just wow. I haven't been insulted like that in almost 50 years. Classic.

 

[ologan]

Wade didn't start out going 1-15 and then building a team that won 3 Super Bowls. Jimmy didn't have the same success in Miami either.

Wade didn't have Herschel Walker, either!

 

[Frosty]

Umm... your chosen examples are terrible.
Levy was a head coach for 17 years. He won at a higher percentage than Jimmy.
He won twice as many playoff games and went to twice as many SBs.

Tony Dungy has 13 years as an NFL head coach and won at a higher percentage than Jimmy.
19 playoff wins for over twice as many and a SB trophy.

Jerry has nothing to do with Jimmy getting in the Hall of Fame or not.
Jimmy chose to walk away from football early because it was a grind.
That's why he isn't in. Jimmy didn't need Jerry to get a job in Miami and he didn't need him to get him a job at FOX.

Jimmy did great things here and as a collegiate coach he was every bit as impressive.
But he isn't going to measure up to NFL head coaches who handled that grind for 12-20 years in most cases and some like Landry far more.

Tony Dungy, the coach that got fired because he could not get Tampa to the Superbowl. Jon Gruden walked in and not only took Tampa to a SuperBowl but WON it....with Dungy's players. Peyton Manning got Tony Dungy his only SuperBowl win. Dungy did not build the Colts team nor did Dungy do anything spectacular to win it....it was all Peyton Manning.

Marv Levy, coached for a long time great coach but lost 4 Superbowls with a great team....Jimmy and the Cowboys out played and out coached Levy and the Bills......How about Bill Cower? is he a HOF Head Coach, longevity yes, got a ring yes. Again the team Jimmy built beat him in the SuperBowl (95).

Who from that ERA is better than Jimmy Johnson. Dan Reeves? Mike Holmgrem, Sam Wyche, Jim Fassel. Jimmy Johnson was the best coach of the 1990's ERA . Yes it was short lived in Dallas but he built a Dynasty. Very few coaches are capable of building a dynasty.... Steelers of the 70s ...Niners of the 80s... Cowboys of the 90s ...and Patriots in 2000s. Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Billichek....all these coaches are HOFers.

So again I ask you if not Jimmy Johnson than WHO?

 

[burmafrd]

I supported the fact that he is a HOF coach a few pages back. There are at least 4 coaches without worse resumes than Jimmys that are in the HOF. No Jimmy shouldn't and isn't a first ballot HOF coach but he is a HOF coach. Longevity has nothing to do with it. His impact in turning around a franchise into a dynasty is enough to put him in the HOF.

supported the FACT?

\always makes me laugh when someone thinks his opinion is a fact

 

[Tawney88]

The crazy thing is that Jerry will probably end up in the HOF and Jimmy won't... lol

Jerry getting in would be an absolute travesty.

 

[DenCWBY]

Jimmy Johnson 80-64 .556, 9-4 playoff record, 2 SB titles

Weeb Ewbank 130-129-7 . 502 4-1 playoff record, 1 SB title
Sid Gilman 122-99-7 .552 1-5 playoff record, no titles
Hank Stram 131-97-10 .575 5-3 playoff record, 1 SB title
Marv Levy 143-112 .561 11-8 playoff record, 4 SB appearances, no titles and he beat the man twice in the SB. Beat him like he stole something I say.

Game, Set, Match.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

It means a hell of a lot more than a bunch of know-it-alls blithering back and forth, dropping one liners on a message board (Even if it is the best around).

Oh and just wow. I haven't been insulted like that in almost 50 years. Classic.

your initial reply insulted my intelligence. so I guess we are even.