NFLN: Charles Haley makes/Jimmy Johnson misses final 15 for Pro football HOF

[Eric_Boyer]

Jerry getting in would be an absolute travesty.

Jerry as an owner is more worthy of the hall then Jimmy as a head football coach.

 

[jterrell]

The crazy thing is that Jerry will probably end up in the HOF and Jimmy won't... lol

Jerry made the NFL a gazillion dollars with marketing and revenue changes and will spend 30 years in the NFL.
He deserves to get in as an executive but not as a GM or personnel guy.

He will undoubtedly get in though likely not til after his death since he seems determined to be a GM til he passes.

 

[jterrell]

Tony Dungy, the coach that got fired because he could not get Tampa to the Superbowl. Jon Gruden walked in and not only took Tampa to a SuperBowl but WON it....with Dungy's players. Peyton Manning got Tony Dungy his only SuperBowl win. Dungy did not build the Colts team nor did Dungy do anything spectacular to win it....it was all Peyton Manning.

Marv Levy, coached for a long time great coach but lost 4 Superbowls with a great team....Jimmy and the Cowboys out played and out coached Levy and the Bills......How about Bill Cower? is he a HOF Head Coach, longevity yes, got a ring yes. Again the team Jimmy built beat him in the SuperBowl (95).

Who from that ERA is better than Jimmy Johnson. Dan Reeves? Mike Holmgrem, Sam Wyche, Jim Fassel. Jimmy Johnson was the best coach of the 1990's ERA . Yes it was short lived in Dallas but he built a Dynasty. Very few coaches are capable of building a dynasty.... Steelers of the 70s ...Niners of the 80s... Cowboys of the 90s ...and Patriots in 2000s. Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Billichek....all these coaches are HOFers.

So again I ask you if not Jimmy Johnson than WHO?

Again hard to argue with people who are ignoring the obvious. Jimmy won a mere 80 NFL games.
He got lucky that Troy Aikman was forced on him, had an assistant almost go crazy to get Emmitt drafted and Irvin was already here.
He bottomed this thing out with a Herschel trade and took advantage of the most draft picks any team had ever had in a time when he and his staff were intimately familiar with 90% of the kids coming out from college recruiting.

He won here and won here big but all in all it was a blip on the radar. A delightful but very short term success story.

Lots of NFL coaches have Super Bowls and the vast majority are not in the HOF.

The Cowboys Dynasty lasted all of 4 years.... Jimmy was only here for 2 of those. He certianly built it but get the heck out of here with calling it some decade long masterwork.
We sucked in 89 and 90. Came to life in 91... Was as good as anyone has ever been in 92 and 93 but were back to just good in 94 and 95(even though he won a SB).

Should Barry Switzer get an NFL Hall of Fame nod??

 

[jterrell]

Game, Set, Match.

Other than the obvious of ignoring half of those guys are in for accomplishments like creating the forward passing game... winning in the AFL before there was an NFL, They all won more than 50% more games than Jimmy in the NFL.
Many in shorter seasons.

Compared to Noll, Landry, Walsh, Shula.. Jimmy does not deserve to get into the NFL Hall of Fame.
And those are guys he has to follow. He was Landry and Shula's successor. He certainly has to compete with them; not guys elected in 1970.

 

[burmafrd]

Game, Set, Match.

there are more than a few in the HOF that do not belong there. Joe Namath is there only because of the Guarantee and winning the AFL's first SB.
Terry Bradshaw does not belong but is because he was the QB of a dynasty team.
Those Coaches sited- Levy deserved it and so did Gillman mainly for his contributions to developing the modern passing game. Stram did not; nor did Weeb.

But just because other UNDESERVING players/coaches are in does not mean MORE should get in

 

[jterrell]

Jimmy Johnson only won 2 division titles in the NFL.
Let that sink in.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

AFAIK, Jimmy is the only retired coach to win more than one Super Bowl not in the HOF. Until Shanahan retires. In both cases, the last team they coached undermined their HOF chances.

Of course, there is no criteria for the HOF - it is definitely subjective. Coaches that never won a SB like Grant and Levy are in the HOF. Three SB victories will make a coach a slam dunk for induction, but if you coach 15 seasons, win at least 12 of them with a SB, that seems to be enough. Thoughts on that?

 

[Fmart322]

Both should go in.

 

[mldardy]

supported the FACT?

\always makes me laugh when someone thinks his opinion is a fact

Yeah I did. I actually put up FACTUAL numbers unlike you.

/always makes me laugh when someone disputes facts with his opinion.

Jimmy Johnson 80-64 .556, 9-4 playoff record, 2 SB titles

Weeb Ewbank 130-129-7 . 502 4-1 playoff record, 1 SB title
Sid Gilman 122-99-7 .552 1-5 playoff record, no titles
Hank Stram 131-97-10 .575 5-3 playoff record, 1 SB title
Marv Levy 143-112 .561 11-8 playoff record, 4 SB appearances, no titles and he beat the man twice in the SB. Beat him like he stole something I say.

Game, Set, Match.

I mean these number are only my opinion.

 

[mldardy]

Game, Set, Match.

Other than the obvious of ignoring half of those guys are in for accomplishments like creating the forward passing game... winning in the AFL before there was an NFL, They all won more than 50% more games than Jimmy in the NFL.
Many in shorter seasons.

Compared to Noll, Landry, Walsh, Shula.. Jimmy does not deserve to get into the NFL Hall of Fame.
And those are guys he has to follow. He was Landry and Shula's successor. He certainly has to compete with them; not guys elected in 1970.

No one is comparing him to those coaches. Pay attention to what is going on man. The comparison was with those coaches mentioned. OK great they created forward passing game. Good for them, I guess. Does that mean they are more worthy of the HOF because they allegedly did that.
Also you mention they all won more than 50% more games than Jimmy. They also lost just about that amount as well.

 

[tyke1doe]

Again hard to argue with people who are ignoring the obvious. Jimmy won a mere 80 NFL games.
He got lucky that Troy Aikman was forced on him, had an assistant almost go crazy to get Emmitt drafted and Irvin was already here.
He bottomed this thing out with a Herschel trade and took advantage of the most draft picks any team had ever had in a time when he and his staff were intimately familiar with 90% of the kids coming out from college recruiting.

He won here and won here big but all in all it was a blip on the radar. A delightful but very short term success story.

Lots of NFL coaches have Super Bowls and the vast majority are not in the HOF.

The Cowboys Dynasty lasted all of 4 years.... Jimmy was only here for 2 of those. He certianly built it but get the heck out of here with calling it some decade long masterwork.
We sucked in 89 and 90. Came to life in 91... Was as good as anyone has ever been in 92 and 93 but were back to just good in 94 and 95(even though he won a SB).

Should Barry Switzer get an NFL Hall of Fame nod??

Did anyone argue that a coach with a Super Bowl win should be in the Hall of Fame? It's not just Super Bowl wins. It's IMPACT on the game. That's why Joe Namath is in, and rightly so. It's not JUST about stats. It's about impact on the league and on the history of the game. That's why Lynn Swann is in the Hall and rightly so. He is connected to the Steelers in a way that is inseparable to that team or its legacy.

Besides that, every coach who has won two Super Bowls (Shula, Noll, Walsh, Gibbs, Parcells, Landry, Lombardi) are either in the Hall of Fame or being considered for the Hall of Fame (Belichick, Coughlin). Only Flores and Shanahan aren't in consideration. Johnson should be because he accomplished more with what he did than Shanahan.

Johnson should be in.

 

[tyke1doe]

Other than the obvious of ignoring half of those guys are in for accomplishments like creating the forward passing game... winning in the AFL before there was an NFL, They all won more than 50% more games than Jimmy in the NFL.
Many in shorter seasons.

Compared to Noll, Landry, Walsh, Shula.. Jimmy does not deserve to get into the NFL Hall of Fame.
And those are guys he has to follow. He was Landry and Shula's successor. He certainly has to compete with them; not guys elected in 1970.

But this is a different league. Coaches aren't going to coach as long as Noll, Landry, Walsh and Shula. The Hall of Fame considers the time a player and coach did there thing in the NFL. That's why you see more wide receivers going in the Hall. The league is a passing league. And the Hal selections are going to reflect the times.

Why should a coach need to be with a franchise for 10, 20 years to be considered Hall of Fame worthy? If he has a major impact on the game, he should be considered.

 

[tyke1doe]

No one is comparing him to those coaches. Pay attention to what is going on man. The comparison was with those coaches mentioned. OK great they created forward passing game. Good for them, I guess. Does that mean they are more worthy of the HOF because they allegedly did that.
Also you mention they all won more than 50% more games than Jimmy. They also lost just about that amount as well.

And didn't Jimmy "invent" the draft compensation chart, which almost every NFL team uses? Did that not have an impact on the game in terms of the acquisition of talent?

 

[tyke1doe]

AFAIK, Jimmy is the only retired coach to win more than one Super Bowl not in the HOF. Until Shanahan retires. In both cases, the last team they coached undermined their HOF chances.

Of course, there is no criteria for the HOF - it is definitely subjective. Coaches that never won a SB like Grant and Levy are in the HOF. Three SB victories will make a coach a slam dunk for induction, but if you coach 15 seasons, win at least 12 of them with a SB, that seems to be enough. Thoughts on that?

Actually, Tom Flores with the Raiders won two Super Bowls also.

 

[Frosty]

Again hard to argue with people who are ignoring the obvious. Jimmy won a mere 80 NFL games.
He got lucky that Troy Aikman was forced on him, had an assistant almost go crazy to get Emmitt drafted and Irvin was already here.
He bottomed this thing out with a Herschel trade and took advantage of the most draft picks any team had ever had in a time when he and his staff were intimately familiar with 90% of the kids coming out from college recruiting.

He won here and won here big but all in all it was a blip on the radar. A delightful but very short term success story.

Lots of NFL coaches have Super Bowls and the vast majority are not in the HOF.

The Cowboys Dynasty lasted all of 4 years.... Jimmy was only here for 2 of those. He certianly built it but get the heck out of here with calling it some decade long masterwork.
We sucked in 89 and 90. Came to life in 91... Was as good as anyone has ever been in 92 and 93 but were back to just good in 94 and 95(even though he won a SB).

Should Barry Switzer get an NFL Hall of Fame nod??

But your still not answering the question. If not Jimmy Johnson than what coach is a HOFer....

 

[mldardy]

And didn't Jimmy "invent" the draft compensation chart, which almost every NFL team uses? Did that not have an impact on the game in terms of the acquisition of talent?

I'm not sure if he invented it but he probably was one of the first to enhance it and get other people to use it.

 

[Gameover]

Dan Reeves Marty Ball and Jimmy Johnson should all be in the HOF!

Crime Jerry hasn't put Jimmy in the ROH

He better not put Myth Sanders in.

 

[DenCWBY]

there are more than a few in the HOF that do not belong there. Joe Namath is there only because of the Guarantee and winning the AFL's first SB.
Terry Bradshaw does not belong but is because he was the QB of a dynasty team.
Those Coaches sited- Levy deserved it and so did Gillman mainly for his contributions to developing the modern passing game. Stram did not; nor did Weeb.

But just because other UNDESERVING players/coaches are in does not mean MORE should get in

All opinion no real facts in your argument. It's (HOF) an arbitrary honor and Jimmy has helped and contributed to the sport like the other you have mentioned. Other impressive data of taking a 1-15 team to back to back SBs (really 3 out of 4 in spite of jones stupidity) in a short period of time proved he's worthy. Now that's just my opinion so well just agree to disagree.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Jimmy likely won't get in because he didn't coach long enough at a high enough level.

If he'd stayed in Dallas, even one more year, and won a third straight superbowl that wouldn't have mattered though. He'd have been in right away for that feat but he didn't stay and he didn't do that. Then when he did comeback in Miami he was average, at best.

So he's simply not got nearly enough to get in most likley. They may eventually let him in but I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon.

 

[burmafrd]

Yeah I did. I actually put up FACTUAL numbers unlike you.

/always makes me laugh when someone disputes facts with his opinion.

I mean these number are only my opinion.

your numbers mean diddly squat

just like your opinion