Nick Foles buying out his contract to become free agent

[Sydla]

I never disputed we have cap issues. We've had cap issues every year since the Chip Kelly spending spree. But we have Howie Roseman. And we may renegotiate or cut players, but we won't do it specifically to cater to the Nick situation. Either we don't franchise him and let him walk, or we have something planned. To cut multiple starters just to get a mid round pick isn't logical. If you question the methods, let's wait and see.

The math simply says otherwise. It's not about questioning the methods. It's simply understanding the situation and the implications involved in tagging Foles.

If the Eagles want to try to trade him, they will now have to tag him at roughly $25MM.

Factoring in McLeod's restructure and Foles option coming off the books, the Eagles stand at around $13MM in cap space. They need $12MM by the start of the league year to tag Foles. Where do you think that's coming from? It's going to have to come from restructures of existing contracts or cutting some guys such as Peters.

Again, you have to be under the cap at the start of the league year. You can't trade Foles until after the start of the league year. In order to tag Foles to trade him after the start of the league year, the Eagles have to be approximately $25MM under the cap (to absorb Foles' tag) by the start of the league year.

 

[Sydla]

From what I'm reading, they have to be under the cap by March 12th, the start of the new league year. And they're currently $16 million over.

That $16MM isn't updated yet to account for McLeod's restructure and the fact Foles apparently bought out his contract, which would save like $20-$22MM in cap space.

Right now, they probably stand anywhere from like $11-13MM under the cap when you factor those in. They still need a lot of space to tag Foles.

 

[Stash]

That $16MM isn't updated yet to account for McLeod's restructure and the fact Foles apparently bought out his contract, which would save like $20-$22MM in cap space.

Over the cap looks to have accounted for it.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/philadelphia-eagles/

Right now, they probably stand anywhere from like $11-13MM under the cap when you factor those in. They still need a lot of space to tag Foles.

No disagreement there.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Including every other NFL team that people somehow think will still give up a 3rd round draft pick.

So, if "no one expects you to hold onto him", they also don't expect to pay draft compensation for a guy you can't afford to keep.

Here's a scenario, follow me here.

Did you know that Andy Reid was the Eagles head coach in 2012 when Nick came out? And Doug Pederson was our QB coach? Bet you did.

Did you know Doug Pederson was sent to Tucson Arizona to hold Nick to a private workout during the buildup to the draft? Maybe you did, maybe you didn't.

Did you know 31 other teams sent no one to watch Nick work out privately? Every other team waited until the pro day. Only one man met his parents before the draft. Nick talks about this a lot. One single NFL employee had dinner with him in the NFL draft buildup. I'm sure a lot of scouts at his pro day fed him, "Hey guy! If you're still there in the 5th, we'd love to bring you in as our 3rd string QB!" But if you remember Michael Vick's not-so-good 2011, you'll also remember that Andy Reid is a QB guru. And one thing he's famous for (to a fault) is hand picking successors WAY before the current QB is done. Kolb, Vick, Mahomes, Foles.

Now Andy wanted Russell, and took Foles because Seattle grabbed him first, that's known. But to Nick, Doug Pederson and Eagles mean more than just 'that team that's woefully underpaying me.' He constantly says he came back to football in 2016 for Andy in KC instead of retiring. That was the only logical destination to him. He came back to Philly because it's his family. So here's the point to all this: What if Howie sits his agent and Nick down and has a brass tacks conversation. "We're going to franchise you now. You could sign it, and we'd basically have to trade you before free agency starts. Anyone willing to swap 7th rounders and that's the team you're forced to commit to. Or... or.... you don't sign it. We keep your rights while staying under the cap through the new year. Depending on how the QB prospects do and the reality teams acknowledge that 2 top QBs can't go to 5 different teams, compensation for us will steadily increase, and the size of the contract you'll end up achieving will build concurrently.

Based on everything you've ever known about Nick Foles, do you see him as a guy who'd say, "Screw you guys, I want money now and you're playing with me!!!!"

I still think they probably already know what is out there for offers even if they don't have a concrete one yet. Like when we traded for the number 2 overall pick. They did it because they KNEW the Rams were taking Goff, even if the Rams claimed they hadn't made up their mind. Remember Alex Smith last year? His trade was rumored to have been finalized before the Super Bowl! People in Eagles-Patriots Super Bowl pregame shows were talking about the Alex Smith blockbuster trade. Howie has had extensive conversations with every team that could possibly need a QB, that's his job. So if we see the franchise tag, we already know he's got something set up. But the previous scenario I mentioned is a hypothetical worst case, which I'm positive it'd never come to.

 

[Sydla]

Over the cap looks to have accounted for it.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/philadelphia-eagles/



No disagreement there.

Foles is still listed on the Eagles 2019 cap year at $21.6MM. HIs base salary was to be $20MM plus $1.6MM in prorated bonus.

When he bought out the option, he paid the Eagles $2MM which effectively gave them $2MM more in cap space (which offsets the prorated bonus). Then the Eagles save the full $20MM in base salary.

So if Over the Cap has them at $16MM over, with Foles, they are now $6MM under.

It does appear they have McLeod's restructure in there but there are some debates as to what he actually saved against the cap. Over the Cap might be a few million off.

Regardless, the Eagles have more moves to make if they want to tag and trade Foles.

 

[DFWJC]

Be curious how this plays out.
Jacksonville I assume would want another QB but they are already 4mil over the cap ceiling.
Bortles deal isn't favorable to cutting him this year without a huge dead cap hit.
They can cut a handful of guys to get under, but it's not like Foles is foolproof either.

Miami for now seems like the owner wants to tank for 2020.

Is Denver interested or will they draft another QB?

Sure there are other teams I'm leaving out.

Yeah.
Jacksonville seemed like the place for Foles, but the cap situation makes that very dicey.

 

[Stash]

Here's a scenario, follow me here.

Did you know that Andy Reid was the Eagles head coach in 2012 when Nick came out? And Doug Pederson was our QB coach? Bet you did.

Did you know Doug Pederson was sent to Tucson Arizona to hold Nick to a private workout during the buildup to the draft? Maybe you did, maybe you didn't.

Did you know 31 other teams sent no one to watch Nick work out privately? Every other team waited until the pro day. Only one man met his parents before the draft. Nick talks about this a lot. One single NFL employee had dinner with him in the NFL draft buildup. I'm sure a lot of scouts at his pro day fed him, "Hey guy! If you're still there in the 5th, we'd love to bring you in as our 3rd string QB!" But if you remember Michael Vick's not-so-good 2011, you'll also remember that Andy Reid is a QB guru. And one thing he's famous for (to a fault) is hand picking successors WAY before the current QB is done. Kolb, Vick, Mahomes, Foles.

Now Andy wanted Russell, and took Foles because Seattle grabbed him first, that's known. But to Nick, Doug Pederson and Eagles mean more than just 'that team that's woefully underpaying me.' He constantly says he came back to football in 2016 for Andy in KC instead of retiring. That was the only logical destination to him. He came back to Philly because it's his family. So here's the point to all this: What if Howie sits his agent and Nick down and has a brass tacks conversation. "We're going to franchise you now. You could sign it, and we'd basically have to trade you before free agency starts. Anyone willing to swap 7th rounders and that's the team you're forced to commit to. Or... or.... you don't sign it. We keep your rights while staying under the cap through the new year. Depending on how the QB prospects do and the reality teams acknowledge that 2 top QBs can't go to 5 different teams, compensation for us will steadily increase, and the size of the contract you'll end up achieving will build concurrently.

Based on everything you've ever known about Nick Foles, do you see him as a guy who'd say, "Screw you guys, I want money now and you're playing with me!!!!"

I still think they probably already know what is out there for offers even if they don't have a concrete one yet. Like when we traded for the number 2 overall pick. They did it because they KNEW the Rams were taking Goff, even if the Rams claimed they hadn't made up their mind. Remember Alex Smith last year? His trade was rumored to have been finalized before the Super Bowl! People in Eagles-Patriots Super Bowl pregame shows were talking about the Alex Smith blockbuster trade. Howie has had extensive conversations with every team that could possibly need a QB, that's his job. So if we see the franchise tag, we already know he's got something set up. But the previous scenario I mentioned is a hypothetical worst case, which I'm positive it'd never come to.

Is that why Foles and his agent informed the Eagles they were using their opt out option? Because it's all about the Eagles and not Foles?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Yeah.
Jacksonville seemed like the place for Foles, but the cap situation makes that very dicey.

Broncos have about 40 million in cap space and I can't imagine Elway saying no to a Super Bowl MVP after all the tripe that's passed through Denver after Manning. I want Fournette so I still hope it's Jags, but Denver is the one I'd put money on.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Is that why Foles and his agent informed the Eagles they were using their opt out option? Because it's all about the Eagles and not Foles?

Philly wins if he opts out, because we trade him AND make back 2m$ that he had to pay back. Howie added in the opt out last summer because of the leverage it gives him, and it'll make Foles more money because someone will be trading for a franchise tag. That's why it works.

 

[Stash]

Foles is still listed on the Eagles 2019 cap year at $21.6MM. HIs base salary was to be $20MM plus $1.6MM in prorated bonus.

When he bought out the option, he paid the Eagles $2MM which effectively gave them $2MM more in cap space (which offsets the prorated bonus). Then the Eagles save the full $20MM in base salary.

So if Over the Cap has them at $16MM over, with Foles, they are now $6MM under.

It does appear they have McLeod's restructure in there but there are some debates as to what he actually saved against the cap. Over the Cap might be a few million off.

Regardless, the Eagles have more moves to make if they want to tag and trade Foles.

Foles is still listed on the Eagles 2019 cap year at $21.6MM. HIs base salary was to be $20MM plus $1.6MM in prorated bonus.

When he bought out the option, he paid the Eagles $2MM which effectively gave them $2MM more in cap space (which offsets the prorated bonus). Then the Eagles save the full $20MM in base salary.

So if Over the Cap has them at $16MM over, with Foles, they are now $6MM under.

It does appear they have McLeod's restructure in there but there are some debates as to what he actually saved against the cap. Over the Cap might be a few million off.

Regardless, the Eagles have more moves to make if they want to tag and trade Foles.

You're assuming moves that while announced, haven't and can't happen yet. Nothing can happen on his deal until the start of the new league year.

 

[Stash]

Philly wins if he opts out, because we trade him AND make back 2m$ that he had to pay back. Howie added in the opt out last summer because of the leverage it gives him, and it'll make Foles more money because someone will be trading for a franchise tag. That's why it works.

No, that now you continue to hope that it works. And it won't.

 

[Stash]

Broncos have about 40 million in cap space and I can't imagine Elway saying no to a Super Bowl MVP after all the tripe that's passed through Denver after Manning. I want Fournette so I still hope it's Jags, but Denver is the one I'd put money on.

Elway isn't trading away a 3rd round pick to then pay Foles $25 million on top of what they're paying Keenum, he's drafting his next quarterback.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Elway isn't trading away a 3rd round pick to then pay Foles $25 million on top of what they're paying Keenum, he's drafting his next quarterback.

None of us really know what any of these teams will do, but they can cut Keenum for 11m$ savings, and they really only need to beat 25$ year 1 money to do better than the franchise.

4 year contract, 60 million dollars, 20m$ signing bonus. Done. That's 20m signing bonus and 10m salary in the first year, and they're still only averaging 15 million per. He'll probably get a lot more than that, but the 25m$ isn't a big sticking point in that regard.

 

[Stash]

None of us really know what any of these teams will do, but they can cut Keenum for 11m$ savings, and they really only need to beat 25$ year 1 money to do better than the franchise.

And $10 million in dead money. $7 million of his 2019 salary is guaranteed. So $35 million invested into one year of Nick Foles plus a 3rd round pick in draft compensation looks like a good deal? Only to the Eagles.

4 year contract, 60 million dollars, 20m$ signing bonus. Done. That's 20m signing bonus and 10m salary in the first year, and they're still only averaging 15 million per. He'll probably get a lot more than that, but the 25m$ isn't a big sticking point in that regard.

If he's getting franchise tag money of around $25 million, why is he signing a multi year deal for far less?

More wishful thinking here.

I think that you - like the Eagles - are trying to drum up a market that doesn't exist.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

And $10 million in dead money. $7 million of his 2019 salary is guaranteed. So $35 million invested into one year of Nick Foles plus a 3rd round pick in draft compensation looks like a good deal? Only to the Eagles.



If he's getting franchise tag money of around $25 million, why is he signing a multi year deal for far less?

More wishful thinking here.

I think that you - like the Eagles - are trying to drum up a market that doesn't exist.

You take as much money as possible. What if he just signs the franchise tender for 25, plays poorly, then goes back to philly for 5 mil a year as a backup again? You take less per year for far more in the overall length of the deal. Why does anyone good QB sign a longterm deal when they know they can just wait out 3 franchise tags for way more money? Everyone does it because it's the smart thing to do.

And they won't invest 35m into 1 year of foles, itd be 70 million into 4 years. he'd get 35 year one, but it'd spread on their cap over the whole contract. Proration.

 

[OmerV]

He made no citation whatsoever for 2017. Why only cite the other games if you're including all postseason games to make your point?

You are fabricating an argument based on a blip of what I said removed from the full context. I’ve said repeatedly Foles had an outstanding 2017 playoffs and you are trying to argue as if I’m denying it.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

You already provided the overall playoff record, and I pointed out the record in seasons besides the 2017 season. I didn’t think I needed to do the math for you, especially since there wouldnt have even been a point given thatbthere was no dispute on Foles being great in the 2017 playoffs anyway.

Agreed. if you want to trade for foles, you'll be trading for a guy who's 4-2 in the playoffs and a Super Bowl MVP.

 

[OmerV]

Agreed. if you want to trade for foles, you'll be trading for a guy who's 4-2 in the playoffs and a Super Bowl MVP.

Yes, that’s true, and it’s also true you’ll albe trading for a guy that other than those 3 playoff games has had a very ordinary career. Which is the entire point I was making and that you have inexplicably been arguing about.

 

[Stash]

You take as much money as possible. What if he just signs the franchise tender for 25, plays poorly, then goes back to philly for 5 mil a year as a backup again? You take less per year for far more in the overall length of the deal. Why does anyone good QB sign a longterm deal when they know they can just wait out 3 franchise tags for way more money? Everyone does it because it's the smart thing to do.

What if he signs whatever deal he wants, wherever he wants? And doesn't leave it up to the Eagles to decide for him? What if he tells the team that went with the other guy - no matter how much Foles outplayed him - to piss off?

Eagles fans seem to think that Foles should just roll over and do whatever benefits the team that chose the other guy over him. But fans judgements are often clouded.

The Eagles have one simple move that will make everyone's lives easier. Cut Foles and make him a free agent. He gets to decide where he plays and for how much, and the Eagles get much needed cap relief.

Instead, they want to try to play some game with high, and I hope it blows up in their face. Foles was a good player and did everything asked of him. He deserves better.

And they won't invest 35m into 1 year of foles, itd be 70 million into 4 years. he'd get 35 year one, but it'd spread on their cap over the whole contract. Proration.

Sure they would, because signing him means they cut Keenum, and eat $10 million in dead money on top of whatever they're giving Foles.

Wishful thinking on your part.

They're drafting their quarterback. Look somewhere else.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

What if he signs whatever deal he wants, wherever he wants? And doesn't leave it up to the Eagles to decide for him? What if he tells the team that went with the other guy - no matter how much Foles outplayed him - to piss off?

Eagles fans seem to think that Foles should just roll over and do whatever benefits the team that chose the other guy over him. But fans judgements are often clouded.

The Eagles have one simple move that will make everyone's lives easier. Cut Foles and make him a free agent. He gets to decide where he plays and for how much, and the Eagles get much needed cap relief.

Instead, they want to try to play some game with high, and I hope it blows up in their face. Foles was a good player and did everything asked of him. He deserves better.



Sure they would, because signing him means they cut Keenum, and eat $10 million in dead money on top of whatever they're giving Foles.

Wishful thinking on your part.

They're drafting their quarterback. Look somewhere else.

Eagles won't let him if they have a trade set up, which is what all this back and forth is about. Maybe they don't tag him, but that's not what we're discussing, it's what if they do. Howie has said he'll handle the Foles situation in whatever way is best for the Eagles.