No flame war intended - about QC. (Long)

[MapleLeaf]

I think you guys know me well enough to see that I wouldn't do this to start a flame war, but rather some healthy debate on the status of our team.

I just watched a game I had on tape from a friend. I never got round to watching until now, but it was the Dallas Houston game from three years ago.

It was the game in which the Texans became the second expansion team to win their first game.

You had to take it with a grain of salt because it was the Texans and both teams were not very good.

What was evident was that we had a very good defence then who kept us in games and there was no running game.

What I noticed was the pocket wasn't very clean for Carter the majority of the times, but what he was capable of was stepping around to the open side of the field to buy himself some time.

The big problem was he was so inaccurate and couldn't read defences that it was frustrating. There was one play where he rolled to his right and Bryant was open for the first down, but QC sailed the ball high and telegraphed it to where Campo's crotch would have been if he hadn't moved out of the way. : Bryant was so angry he kicked the bench!

As I was fast forwarding through the Texan offence to get to the Dallas offensive series it became obvious why a mobile QB is attractive in this league.

Mobility is the hardest thing to gameplan against by a defence! You can talk all you want about staying at home and following your assignments, but QB mobility can break down the most disciplined of defensive players and either buy time or create opportunities for plays.

The secret is to couple that with game management and recognition skills and you will have yourself a serviceable QB for any team.

The other thing that was obvious with the Campo/Carter offence is how quick Quincy was getting the offence to the line. He was getting them to the line at the 14 to 17 second mark. There was decent pace to tempo, but all it meant was we were giving the ball back to the Texans faster.

The key is if we could do that now then it would buy Bledsoe some time to vary his count and tempo with time to spare. It's much easier for the defence to time the snap when you are running the 25 second clock down to the last 1 or 2 seconds as Bledsoe did five or six times this past Sunday. Al Johnson hand flexing aside.

If BP wants to control the tempo, then he has to get this offence to take every little advantage it can muster to keep the defences from settling into a pattern.

Run the shotgun every so often. He did it for Carter. Run a quickened pace. Get the offence to the line earlier, so call the plays in earlier. Move the QB around despite how bad his mobility or short passing is. Don't be scared to run spread offences and make the quick throw.

We need to bring elements into our offensive game that defences have difficulty gameplanning against. Consider a gameplan that is intended to "not be" the Bill Parcells Dallas Cowboys.

 

[BAZ]

Peyton Manning can't move around and a lot of the time he runs the playclock down to 1 or 2 seconds so the D show him what they are going to do. Everybody slurps him for this.

He has got one of the best O-lines in front of him & I doubt you would see a nose tackle get to him before a hand off.

People are really getting on Drew after this game which I think is funny - if the Giants lose next week and we win people will be back to putting us in the NFC title game.

I do agree we should be mixing our play calling up and would like to see us game plan more like the first Eagles game but if we can't block we can't do anything. But the season is not over like a lot of people seem to think.

 

[TunaFan33]

People are really getting on Drew after this game which I think is funny - if the Giants lose next week and we win people will be back to putting us in the NFC title game.

Nah-the Bills fans want something to vent about after their "franchise" guy is really stinking up the joint now.

Never was a Bledsoe fan myself, but reality is that we came out on top in that trade with Buffalo. And at least we got this guy for free too, eh?

 

[MapleLeaf]

Peyton Manning can't move around and a lot of the time he runs the playclock down to 1 or 2 seconds so the D show him what they are going to do. Everybody slurps him for this.

He has got one of the best O-lines in front of him & I doubt you would see a nose tackle get to him before a hand off.

People are really getting on Drew after this game which I think is funny - if the Giants lose next week and we win people will be back to putting us in the NFC title game.

I do agree we should be mixing our play calling up and would like to see us game plan more like the first Eagles game but if we can't block we can't do anything. But the season is not over like a lot of people seem to think.

...changes specifically because we are experiencing poor line play along with the QB who is noted for being immobile. The point of the Carter game I watched was that the line wasn't playing any better for him, but some of the things the offence did in that game gave him more time to control the tempo and prevent the game from being a blowout despite Carter's poor play.

We need to change thing in our gameplan right now becasue the line isn't going to change overnight. Make the best with what we have now.

 

[ddh33]

I thought the offense looked much better against the Giants with a quickened pace. For the first time, the team looked like they had purpose on offense. After getting the game within a score, the team just went back to what they had been doing (and wasn't working). That frustrated me.

 

[Martice]

...changes specifically because we are experiencing poor line play along with the QB who is noted for being immobile. The point of the Carter game I watched was that the line wasn't playing any better for him, but some of the things the offence did in that game gave him more time to control the tempo and prevent the game from being a blowout despite Carter's poor play.

We need to change thing in our gameplan right now becasue the line isn't going to change overnight. Make the best with what we have now.

In 2002, we had a young Carter at the helm. He had little playing experience at that time. He had a bad 'O' line and sucked accordingly. He got better his next year though and so far has the best year any QB has had since Troy. The funny thing is that Drew maynot even catch QC's yardage total for 2003.

As far as game planning goes, we will need Drew to step up his game. Period! His ability to throw the ball cannot be wasted. He has too much experience to not be able to see things coming and adjust even a little bit to pressure. Switching up little nuances at the line. Hard counts. Anything to buy time and to keep the defense guessing. I guess in short I am saying we need to see his level of play rise even a little bit. If he gets a chance to make a play behind this horrible line, he has to make the throw. He can't throw away opportunities with bad passes. We've crucified younger QB's for this sort of play so why not a vet?

We need to change thing in our gameplan right now becasue the line isn't going to change overnight. Make the best with what we have now.

The problem is that everything that we want to do because the of the bad 'O' line play we can't because of injuries and QB limitations. What kills me is that Drew is part of the problem even with a "decent" 'O' line. Some of his short comings go deeper than 'O' line play and that is up to him to change.

It's up to Drew to do his part.

 

[junk]

Carter was exceptional in the pocket in my opinion. That and his deep ball were about his only redeeming qualities however.

There is a difference between being mobile and being able to feel a rush and avoid it. The latter doesn't seem to be Bledsoe's strongest trait.

 

[Martice]

...changes specifically because we are experiencing poor line play along with the QB who is noted for being immobile. The point of the Carter game I watched was that the line wasn't playing any better for him, but some of the things the offence did in that game gave him more time to control the tempo and prevent the game from being a blowout despite Carter's poor play.

We need to change thing in our gameplan right now becasue the line isn't going to change overnight. Make the best with what we have now.

Hey David. Watch some of 2003's games. You will see better passes from QC overall which is why some actually thought he would have a better year in 2004. Ask yourself this question David. What does Drew bring to the Cowboys on the field that QC didn't? Simple question. The only thing that I can think of is initial trust from his offense. I do think that the trust is starting to waver a little though.

If Drew had more time he'd be much better I do agree as most QB's would be. However, this is the NFL and this is the time of year that teams raise there intensity and level of play. Our 'O' line is going backwards unfortunately. So it is time for the rest of the pieces to do whatever it is they can to make the job a little easier on the 'O' line. The coaching staff has kept everyone but the water boy back to block and Drew still can't make the open short passes.

Raise the game Drew!

 

[The Curly One]

Watch it closely and you will see Quincy run to his right as soon as he gets the ball to get away from the guy that blew past LA. Quincy had no time at all in the pocket but did a great job of avoiding sacks under the circumstances.
Still his accuracy was terrible so you can not expect much. Curly

 

[TheSkaven]

Mobility in a QB is overrated. It's a patchwork solution when you have a poor offensive line. Only one mobile QB has won a Superbowl in the last 15 years, and that was Steve Young in 94 (courtesy of Barry Switzer, he probably still sends him thank you cards).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I believe that Mobility in a QB is extremely important. I'm not saying the ability to run like a deer but actual mobility. I'm hard pressed to think about even one QB who couldn't move around who ended up being great. Even Peyton Manning can move around. He can't run to save his life but he does move around in the pocket.

 

[goshan]

Mobility is not overrated.
For example, Tom Brady can move around a little in the pocket to make some plays.

Don't confuse Mobility with a Running QB.

Lets walk through the starting QBs in the NFL and figure out who is mobile and who isn't:

I have rated the following QBs based upon ‘mobility’ – meaning ability to move around and shift in the pocket while being rushed to buy more time and make a play. This has nothing to do with running skills. Based upon my analysis, the only top 15 QBs in the NFL who are not mobile are Manning, Green, Bledsoe and Warner. Bledsoe is easily the least mobile of these four. In fact, I almost gave Manning one star because he moves around quite a bit.

0 Star = Not Mobile
1 Star = Mobile
2 Stars = Exceptionally Mobile

QBs are listed in order of 2005 QB Rating

Mobility QB Stats
1 Peyton Manning IND 2966 358 245 25 8 80 107.6
*2 Carson Palmer CIN 3149 399 274 26 7 70 106.6
**3 Ben Roethlisberger PIT 1702 197 125 15 7 85 101.5
*4 Marc Bulger STL 2297 287 192 14 9 57 94.4
*5 Drew Brees SD 2813 368 240 20 11 43 93.9
**6 Jake Plummer DEN 2512 343 211 15 6 72 91.2
*7 Tom Brady NE 3301 424 264 18 10 71 90.7
*8 Byron Leftwich JAC 2123 302 175 15 5 45 89.3
*9 Matt Hasselbeck SEA 2704 368 229 15 8 52 89.1
10 Trent Green KC 2947 383 240 13 9 60 87.9
*11 Mark Brunell WAS 2512 370 216 16 5 78 87.8
**12 Jake Delhomme CAR 2602 330 200 18 13 80 87.2
13 Drew Bledsoe DAL 2703 374 229 17 11 70 86.1
**14 Donovan McNabb PHI 2507 357 211 16 9 91 85.0
15 Kurt Warner ARI 2343 324 207 9 8 63 84.4
*16 Steve McNair TEN 2609 395 246 14 9 57 83.8
*17 Chris Simms TB 1314 185 109 6 5 78 80.3
18 Kerry Collins OAK 3118 446 245 16 10 79 79.6
19 Brian Griese TB 1136 174 112 7 7 80 79.6
*20 Eli Manning NYG 2816 416 214 20 12 61 77.2
21 Trent Dilfer CLE 2321 333 199 11 12 80 76.9
*22 David Carr HOU 1904 324 194 11 9 34 76.2
**23 Michael Vick ATL 1783 282 158 12 9 58 76.0
*24 Brett Favre GB 2991 459 286 19 21 53 75.9
**25 Daunte Culpepper MIN 1564 216 139 6 12 68 72.0
*26 Anthony Wright BAL 1582 266 164 6 9 48 71.7
*27 J.P. Losman BUF 1159 201 103 7 5 56 70.1
*28 Josh McCown ARI 1233 186 104 6 8 49 69.1
*29 Aaron Brooks NO 2663 385 213 12 17 66 69.0
30 Gus Frerotte MIA 2301 391 199 12 11 60 67.5

 

[juck]

not to mention,totally immobile qbs are sitting ducks,at least peyton can move a lil bit,bledsoe is slower than vinny.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Historically, Trent Green has been a pretty mobile guy. He's always had the ability to move around a little bit, so far as I can recall. I think Peyton moves around too. He would never be confused with Vick but he buys time in the pocket OK.

I do agree with you thou, mobility is extremely important in a QB.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Carter was exceptional in the pocket in my opinion. That and his deep ball were about his only redeeming qualities however.

There is a difference between being mobile and being able to feel a rush and avoid it. The latter doesn't seem to be Bledsoe's strongest trait.

Your take on Carter is perfect.....I watched Carter in training camp all the years he played and one thing he always done was to throw a pretty deep ball.

IMO he just had problems reading defenses and his off the field drug issues....what-ever-they actually were.

 

[TheSkaven]

Yes that's a good distinction, running QB verse mobility, being elusive in the pocket is a very good trait, but looking to run after your first read is covered (as many running or "mobile" QBs do) is not a good trait.

Dante Culpepper seems to be the complete package on the surface, but any coincidence that the team is 5-0 without him? Falcons look awful good when Schaub is running the team too, if I may say so.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I agree that people confuse in the pocket mobility with running skills.

I think Peyton Manning's one of the most mobile QBs there is. He's much like Marino in that regard. Takes one step here, one there but never seems to get sacked.

Compare that to someone like Randall Cunningham. His running ability compares favorably to any QB with the exception of Vick yet he had terrible mobility when it came to avoiding sacks and I believe he even held the single season sack record before Carr came along. There was never a side step from him.

 

[trickblue]

Mobility in a QB is overrated. It's a patchwork solution when you have a poor offensive line. Only one mobile QB has won a Superbowl in the last 15 years, and that was Steve Young in 94 (courtesy of Barry Switzer, he probably still sends him thank you cards).

 

[CrazyCowboy]

I agree that people confuse in the pocket mobility with running skills.

I think Peyton Manning's one of the most mobile QBs there is. He's much like Marino in that regard. Takes one step here, one there but never seems to get sacked.

Compare that to someone like Randall Cunningham. His running ability compares favorably to any QB with the exception of Vick yet he had terrible mobility when it came to avoiding sacks and I believe he even held the single season sack record before Carr came along. There was never a side step from him.

I would like to see Manning QB behind our line.......I would venture to say he would at the very least get some hits.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Quincy Carter had just as bad of an offensive line then what Drew Bledsoe had, maybe even worst because Parcells has always been able to get the boys upfront to play well at least at the start of the season.

During the a good portion of the first half of the season, the line played pretty well for both Vinny Testeverde and Drew Bledsoe. They seem to digress after that.

Carter threw a decent deep ball and was exceptional at feeling the pressure. The biggest knock on Carter is that he struggled to read defenses, even when the Playbook was dumbed down. He also struggled with his accuracy. Another problem with Quincy was the fact that he never could "shrug off" an interceptions. It seemed like after he threw an interception, he could never really get over it.

With that said, Quincy Carter is still the only quarterback to quarterback a team to the Post Season since Aikman has retired. Yeah Yeah, it was Zimmer's defense, Parcells' genius etc etc, but the the aforementioned fact still remains to be true.

- Mike G.