Not sure DL more than potential

jazzcat22

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No mention of Woods commanding double teams? His ability to create havoc will free somebody up...

Woods, and Crawford as well. DLaw said Crawford does a lot of the dirty work that doesn't show up on the stat sheets. Such as taking those double team blocks, as designed. Takes on other blocks to free up the DE's.

I am not a fan of Crawford, mostly because he didn't live up to his huge contract, which is normally not me, but in his defense this staff does what it doesn't do best. Kept moving him around so he could not excel at one position. But he does go under appreciated by many, including myself.
 

blueblood70

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I do agree that if we can get better push up the middle then the outside rushers will benefit. Not sure we've got much more to give us that push than last year, but Collins being healthier is promising. We've got quite a few depth, rotational players, but I just haven't seen anyone be that stud yet that can complement what we have in Lawrence. Quinn has proven in the past that he can be that threat, Gregory was coming on in that regard last year, but I'm not sure we'll have someone being a true pass-rushing complement to Lawrence those first two games unless Collins can do it.
I think we will be surprised with Covington, Woods, Crawford, and Hill in that rotation..Covington is Huge and takes two blockers..like I said the rotation is deeper and better..if they stay healthy I think they will be better..
 

gimmesix

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No mention of Woods commanding double teams? His ability to create havoc will free somebody up...

Woods doesn't really affect the pass rush. He's a run-down player who is hard to move, which does make teams have to use an extra blocker to uproot him on running plays. Against the pass, he's not really a threat.
 

Maxmadden

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We do seem to have beefed up a little in the middle.

Everybody hates Marinelli on here, but the defense has improved every year he has been here and he started off dumpster diving.
 

gimmesix

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I am relaxed.
I made that comment because one day it is, we are deep on the DL, the next day, we have nothing.
And it goes for just about every position.

We are deep with potential. I just think the line is being made out to be a strength. It is in one way right now, with the depth looking better than players at the bottom of other rosters or who won't make teams, but I don't think we're really seeing next-level play. Someone might get there from the bunch we've seen in the preseason games, but I can't say anyone is yet. Gregory looked like he was on his way late last season, which makes his suspension hurt worse especially with Quinn now out a couple of games. Hopefully, he gets back and provides that consistent pass-rushing presence to complement Lawrence. If Collins can stay healthy and step up his game at 3-tech, then our line will be stout no matter if the rotational guys are just good and not great.
 

CouchCoach

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We have the tendency to oversell ourselves on the DL, remember the Tapper love?

If the team is going to be playoff bound, the magic has to happen at the end of the season, not the beginning. Who cares about the first few games, it's down the stretch, crunch time, when we've seen it fold.

I really don't have a problem if Lawrence, Quinn, Crawford and Gregory miss the beginning of the season if they can show up at the end and into the medal round.
 

gimmesix

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The DL is more potential as it stands now, or at least the first two weeks of the regular season.

We got D-Law, Collins and then some rookies, Taco, Armstrong, Woods and Covington. Oh and Crawford.

Not great, not terrible either. I sort of like it in that it'll be a good time for guys like Armstrong and Taco to get some real snaps at RDE
Hill should be brought along with time.

I like the group of young guys rounding out the end spots. To be determined how they develop.

I was hoping with some of the praise that Armstrong was getting from camp that he'd take a giant leap forward this year. I haven't seen him in the two preseason games do more than he did as a rookie, though, as a pass rusher. Charlton has had some good reps and gotten pressure against the second-teammers he's faced. That's a step up from where he was, but where he was wasn't very good.

The guy I was thinking could be our transitional player while the young guys developed was Hyder ... and he's also done some good things, including causing the interception in the San Fran game with pressure, but I feel like he should be making these backups look bad down after down. Maybe I'm expecting too much.
 

quickccc

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It's still pretty much a wait and see and a work in progress - but it’s still also the biggest area of the defense, imo because this unit is going to likely determine if we advance in the playoffs, .. or yet again, get sent home from the playoffs .
You can tell management team is trying to acquire talent to be added to the DL, but it still hasn’t turned out to be enough of a difference maker down the stretch,

The latest improvement attempt will be Quinn, as he is an ex-All pro’er and was once a guy capable of 20 sack season ( once had an astounding 19 sack year with the Rams) .. we traded for him very cheap, but how much of that has to do with his back injury that has given him so much trouble Its been the reason for his decline.

- But remember, Dlaw also had previous back issues before emerging to be one of the most disruptive Des in the NFL the past 2 seasons.
Back problems are so tricky and can either get better .. or get worse. But can lightning strike twice ?
The cowboys staff is apparently gambling heavily on Quinn being rejuvenated to be that pre-injury ex Rams player opposite Dlaw. if we get a 10+ sack player, that will be so huge for this defense.

Especially one that faces the NFC better QBs come playoff time ( Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, Wilson, Goff, Wentz, etc)
The DT’s ? that’s a very worry spot for me too. I’m not sold on Maliek Collins and we really just don’t have a difference maker in the interior.
jury still completely out on Trysten Hill and he even could be a year or so away from that.

- I didn't particular care for how the run defense performed on the road in several games in giving 100+ yd rushing to several team .. vs being so stout at home.
We were already showing leaks and cracks On- the- Road before the big playoff road game exploded. I haven't been able to figure out how much could be Ro's scheme and how much
could have been underachieving performances by the DL.

- The rest of the rotation guys are just serviceable at best, until they show and prove differently – Crawford, Taco, Armstrong, and Jackson (Jelks?)
.. and I’m sorry I’ve been so much in the dark with this Gregory suspension/appeal that it’s become a point where I’m no longer even counting him to be on the roster this year at all.
And I'm starting to have major question about his future here period.

What new players are going to make a better improvement and differences than what we ended with vs Rams ? Quinn ?

.. another guy I am keeping an eye on ? DT Chris Covington. (and I thought he played with Houston Texans rather than Philly)
Yeh it was backups, but I saw a short glimpse of what I am wanting to see from the DTs, someone occupying blockers and penetrating and getting into the backfield.
Though he’s listed around 310 but his frame seems bigger and wider than that.
I’m just not sold on Antuan Woods, he runs too hot and cold inconsistent for our defense. Especially when it comes to On the Road vs at Home.

- Pass rush and turnovers go hand in hand, but there’s still issues in both areas in this defense, imo.
 

ShiningStar

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It's still pretty much a wait and see and a work in progress - but it’s still also the biggest area of the defense, imo because this unit is going to likely determine if we advance in the playoffs, .. or yet again, get sent home from the playoffs .
You can tell management team is trying to acquire talent to be added to the DL, but it still hasn’t turned out to be enough of a difference maker down the stretch,

The latest improvement attempt will be Quinn, as he is an ex-All pro’er and was once a guy capable of 20 sack season ( once had an astounding 19 sack year with the Rams) .. we traded for him very cheap, but how much of that has to do with his back injury that has given him so much trouble Its been the reason for his decline.

- But remember, Dlaw also had previous back issues before emerging to be one of the most disruptive Des in the NFL the past 2 seasons.
Back problems are so tricky and can either get better .. or get worse. But can lightning strike twice ?
The cowboys staff is apparently gambling heavily on Quinn being rejuvenated to be that pre-injury ex Rams player opposite Dlaw. if we get a 10+ sack player, that will be so huge for this defense.

Especially one that faces the NFC better QBs come playoff time ( Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, Wilson, Goff, Wentz, etc)
The DT’s ? that’s a very worry spot for me too. I’m not sold on Maliek Collins and we really just don’t have a difference maker in the interior.
jury still completely out on Trysten Hill and he even could be a year or so away from that.

- I didn't particular care for how the run defense performed on the road in several games in giving 100+ yd rushing to several team .. vs being so stout at home.
We were already showing leaks and cracks On- the- Road before the big playoff road game exploded. I haven't been able to figure out how much could be Ro's scheme and how much
could have been underachieving performances by the DL.

- The rest of the rotation guys are just serviceable at best, until they show and prove differently – Crawford, Taco, Armstrong, and Jackson (Jelks?)
.. and I’m sorry I’ve been so much in the dark with this Gregory suspension/appeal that it’s become a point where I’m no longer even counting him to be on the roster this year at all.
And I'm starting to have major question about his future here period.

What new players are going to make a better improvement and differences than what we ended with vs Rams ? Quinn ?

.. another guy I am keeping an eye on ? DT Chris Covington. (and I thought he played with Houston Texans rather than Philly)
Yeh it was backups, but I saw a short glimpse of what I am wanting to see from the DTs, someone occupying blockers and penetrating and getting into the backfield.
Though he’s listed around 310 but his frame seems bigger and wider than that.
I’m just not sold on Antuan Woods, he runs too hot and cold inconsistent for our defense. Especially when it comes to On the Road vs at Home.

- Pass rush and turnovers go hand in hand, but there’s still issues in both areas in this defense, imo.


even if i didnt agree wtih you, NICE POST.
 

CF74

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Woods doesn't really affect the pass rush. He's a run-down player who is hard to move, which does make teams have to use an extra blocker to uproot him on running plays. Against the pass, he's not really a threat.

True however we don’t always have time to rotate him out during obvious passing downs and he’s in there wreaking havoc when they do the irregular pass on 1st and second down.
 

gimmesix

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True however we don’t always have time to rotate him out during obvious passing downs and he’s in there wreaking havoc when they do the irregular pass on 1st and second down.

Ideally, you'd have a monster in there who can stuff the run but be equally effective against the pass. I think that's why we were looking fairly hard at Vita Vea in the 2018 draft if he fell. Woods isn't ideal because he doesn't provide a whole lot when teams pass on running downs. I'm fine with him being that 1-tech we need to occupy two blockers, but he doesn't really make our pass rush better. I mean, he makes it better than players who can be easily uprooted or handled by one blocker, but teams are not going to double him as a pass rusher instead of doubling Lawrence.

We need someone out there at all times other than Lawrence who commands a double team. Teams don't double-team anyone on every down, but if you know both tackles need help or the guard blocking the 3-tech needs help, it opens things up for the other pass rushers.

Last year, our second-highest player to Lawrence's 10.5 sacks was Randy Gregory at 6. That was 63rd-best in the league.

11 teams had at least two players with eight or more: Houston, Kansas City (with three), Denver, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Washington, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Philadelphia and Seattle. That means 10 players ahead of Lawrence in sacks had at least one teammate who was providing pretty good pressure, which helps take some of the offensive attention off them. Lawrence finished 18th in sacks despite not having that kind of help.
 

xwalker

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I've been happy for the most part with the DL play during the preseason, but I'm not sure what we've seen means that we're going to be much different than last year as far as pass-rushing success goes.

It appears to me with Quinn suspended two games and Gregory suspended infinitely that our pass rush is still going to go as Lawrence goes. At end, we've seen some good signs from Chartlon playing against second-team LTs, but it isn't like he's dominating them to get to the QB, which is what he needs to do against backups if he's going to stand any chance against starters. The same with Kerry Hyder. He's made some good plays but hasn't been dominant. Dorance Armstrong hasn't done much at all as a pass rusher, but we've seen some good moments from Joe Jackson and Jalen Jelks against third- and fourth-stringers ... again, no dominance.

Now, on the inside, Maliek Collins was pretty dominant while he was in there Saturday. Again, it was against backups, but that's what we need to see in those situations. None of the other DTs played at that level.

Again, that doesn't mean there haven't been good moments where each of them has shined. I just haven't seen anything that tells me that we've got a dominant player other than Lawrence, at least not until Quinn returns. Being able to rush the passer with the front four is a big part of this scheme and I just don't know if we have the horses for that. Seems like we've got a bunch of young colts that might not quite be ready to run.
Compare to 2018:

RDE:
2018 Game 1 to 7: Taco starter, Gregory in rotation & played more pass rush snaps.
2018 Games 8 to 15: Crawford starter. Gregory in rotation.

2019 Quinn out 2 games. Crawford probably starts game 1 if he is on the roster. Otherwise Taco/Armstrong/Hyder rotation.
2019 Game 3: Quinn plus some rotation of Crawford/Taco/Armstrong/Hyder.

LDE:
2018: DLaw. Armstrong/Taco played some snaps at LDE.

2019: DLaw. Hopefully 100%. Armstrong/Taco/Hyder, maybe Crawford involved.

3-tech DT:
2018: Crawford started games 1 to 7. Collins missed 3 games and not near-100% until game 8.
2018: Daniel Ross in the rotation.

2019: Collins at to start game 1. Top pick Trysten Hill set to be in rotation. Hyder & Covington to get some 3-tech snaps.

1-tech DT:
2018: Woods. Backups varied with Ross, Reid and others playing some 1-tech snaps.

2019: Woods. Covington as the backup.


Summary:
  • RDE: Once Quinn returns he should be better than Gregory in 2019. The rotation options are better with improvements for Taco/Armstong & adding Hyder.
  • LDE: More options to play the 25% to 30% of snaps not played by DLaw.
  • 3-tech DT: Collins healthier. Hill added. Hyder/Covington offer new options.
  • 1-tech DT: Covington much better 1-tech abilities than any backups last season.

Final Comments:
- If DLaw is 100%, the DL should be better across the board.
- DLaw is coming off surgery; however, the shoulder was a problem from day 1 of the 2018 season.
- DLaw in theory should be better as the season progresses due to getting the shoulder issue resolved.
 

eromeopolk

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I've been happy for the most part with the DL play during the preseason, but I'm not sure what we've seen means that we're going to be much different than last year as far as pass-rushing success goes.

It appears to me with Quinn suspended two games and Gregory suspended infinitely that our pass rush is still going to go as Lawrence goes. At end, we've seen some good signs from Chartlon playing against second-team LTs, but it isn't like he's dominating them to get to the QB, which is what he needs to do against backups if he's going to stand any chance against starters. The same with Kerry Hyder. He's made some good plays but hasn't been dominant. Dorance Armstrong hasn't done much at all as a pass rusher, but we've seen some good moments from Joe Jackson and Jalen Jelks against third- and fourth-stringers ... again, no dominance.

Now, on the inside, Maliek Collins was pretty dominant while he was in there Saturday. Again, it was against backups, but that's what we need to see in those situations. None of the other DTs played at that level.

Again, that doesn't mean there haven't been good moments where each of them has shined. I just haven't seen anything that tells me that we've got a dominant player other than Lawrence, at least not until Quinn returns. Being able to rush the passer with the front four is a big part of this scheme and I just don't know if we have the horses for that. Seems like we've got a bunch of young colts that might not quite be ready to run.
What games have you been watching? This team is deep at DL. When you hold any team to 10 points for 3 quarters you are dominating the line of scrimmage.

I am not worried about the DL. However, OL at the OT positions scare me as there is no depth, Cooper Rush and White is not giving me confidence at back up QB, Jason Witten is the only TE that blocks at 107 years old, and the Cowboys kicking game is a mess at K and Punter.

The defense should get a good dress rehearsal versus the Texans.
 

Risen Star

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They really didn't address what the Rams exploited in the playoff game. Which should be shocking to anyone who doesn't know this front office.
 
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