OL Will we be as good as last year?

[DallasEast]

Blocking is designed to do one thing and one thing only: prevent tackles. You can describe any and all blocks in any way humanly imaginable. You can label any block as great. You can call any block average. You can maintain that a phantom block occurred. That's just a few examples. There may be countless more. Does not matter.

If a blocker's actions does anything to move a prospective tackler out of position to make the tackle, it is a block.

Extra note: Sacks are tackles of the quarterback occurring in the offensive backfield. That should be obvious but there is some misunderstanding of what blocking actually is, so I threw that in as well.

 

[xwalker]

Bullcrap, I'm watching the play right now. He "walled off" peppers? Peppers instantly beat Martin off the block.

What are you even talking about?



Even with the debate of "If he hit full speed", it doesn't take away from the fact that Martin put on a piss poor block on that play. He holds Peppers off and no matter the speed, Murray gets through that hole and only has a CB to beat. Every other OL on that play did their job well except for Martin, and that one DE that got off the block instantly made a play.

Revisionist history around here is ridiculous.

The coaching point on that play is "whatever you do, don't let him get back to the inside". Coaches don't expect an OL to get a perfect block on a 3-4 OLB out in space. The Cowboys scheme emphasizes this concept of making certain that a block is basically 1/2 perfect not completely perfect. If they can't get a perfect block, they are required to make certain that they at least maintain position either inside or outside depending on the play requirement.

Peppers is a HOF type DE/OLB and is a freak athlete. You don't expect to get a perfect block on him every time. The Bottom line is that Murray has to hand on to the ball.

 

[xwalker]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/demarcomurray2_zpsez3dpwn9-1.gif
​

I agree that Martin's block was not a mistake. In my opinion as a former offensive lineman, Martin poorly executed hs block but it was more than adequate for the success of the play.

Martin did not wall off Peppers. To accomplish that, Martin would have needed to remain engaged with Peppers and maintained the block until Murray was beyond the line of scrimmage. However, Martin executed the basics of all run blocking assignments: He reached his assigned man (or zone, if the latter) and engaged hs man long enough to help create a seam in which the running back could penetrate the line of scrimmage.

That is indisputable from all angles. Peppers made a great play and helped the defense recover from what should have been a huge gain or more. However, the problem wasn't that Murray lacked speed to penetrate the hole established by the offensive line. The problem (as always) was Murray not protecting the ball well-enough to prevent Peppers desperate split-second strip attempt. Keep in mind. Had Peppers NOT stripped the ball he would have been completely out of position to make the tackle. Even with his speed, Murray would have easily outrun Peppers at and through the hole.

That infamous fumble lies still solely at Murray's feet (pun intended).

I don't think some people really understand run blocking. Probably over half of Murray's runs in route to 1800 yards came with "good enough" blocks. It is very rare that all blocks on a play are perfect. Martin managed the primary goal which was to force Peppers to the outside. Run blocking is basically trying to control chaos.

 

[mattjames2010]

The coaching point on that play is "whatever you do, don't let him get back to the inside". Coaches don't expect an OL to get a perfect block on a 3-4 OLB out in space. The Cowboys scheme emphasizes this concept of making certain that a block is basically 1/2 perfect not completely perfect. If they can't get a perfect block, they are required to make certain that they at least maintain position either inside or outside depending on the play requirement.

Peppers is a HOF type DE/OLB and is a freak athlete. You don't expect to get a perfect block on him every time. The Bottom line is that Murray has to hand on to the ball.

I never said a PERFECT block, I said a BETTER block. Leading with your head and stumbling forward is not a block, it's making yourself look like a fool.

And saying something like, "You can't expect them to block perfectly every time" is like saying, "Can't expect a QB to never throw an INT", "You can't expect a WR to not drop balls", or "You can't expect an RB to not fumble". It doesn't take away the mistake when it happens, they are mistakes. Martin made a poor run blocking attempt.

 

[DallasEast]

I don't think some people really understand run blocking. Probably over half of Murray's runs in route to 1800 yards came with "good enough" blocks. It is very rare that all blocks on a play are perfect. Martin managed the primary goal which was to force Peppers to the outside. Run blocking is basically trying to control chaos.

You're being kind. Some people don't understand and that's a fact.

 

[xwalker]

Not sure how many times if any this has been covered, but do you think our O-Line will be as good as last year or worse?

Myself I'm hoping we're as good, but I expect we take a few steps back. Why?

We lost Bill Callahan our OL coach for the past 3 years. A lot of fans think it's mainly talent that gets the job done, but in reality coaching has a huge impact. A coach has to know when to get in a players face, or use kid gloves. They also have to know which players you can use to motivate, and one's that are self motivating. Now we have a OL coach I've never heard of, not sure how good he is, but as I said I'm expecting us to take a step or two back, I'm hoping we take a step forward and are even more dominant. I'm also hoping Bill isn't nearly as successful in Washington as he's been in Dallas and other places he's coached.

Frank Pollack is the OL coach now. He was Callahan's assistant in 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when Callahan was the play caller, Pollack was the lead in terms of coaching the OL and running their meetings (according to interviews with Martin and Frederick).

Pollack played in the NFL as an OLineman. This is about his 10th year in coaching.

The fact that he was here with Callahan for 2 years should make the transition seamless.

The only area where there might be a difference between him and Callahan is that Callahan would push for who they keep, sign, start when not everyone in the organization was in agreement. Callahan pushed to have Parnell start over Free back in 2012 despite strong objection from Garrett. Callahan was able to get the front office to "encourage" Garrett on this issue and the compromise was to have them split snaps in the final 4 game that season. I'm certain that Parnell was much more prepared in 2014 when Free was out because of the experience that he got in real games back in 2012. It is probably a rare issue where they don't let the OL coach do what he feels is best so it's probably not a big issue in the future.

 

[xwalker]

I never said a PERFECT block, I said a BETTER block. Leading with your head and stumbling forward is not a block, it's making yourself look like a fool.

And saying something like, "You can't expect them to block perfectly every time" is like saying, "Can't expect a QB to never throw an INT", "You can't expect a WR to not drop balls", or "You can't expect an RB to not fumble". It doesn't take away the mistake when it happens, they are mistakes. Martin made a poor run blocking attempt.

If you understand the scheme and how they coach him, you'll understand why he lunged. He was making certain that Peppers did jump back inside. Martin made the split second decision that the timing and spacing was such that Peppers was going to get to the inside on him so he lunged to prevent that from happening.

Throwing INTs and dropping passes is not comparable to run blocking. It's all of nothing in those situations whereas in run blocking an ugly but good enough block is just that "good enough". There is no such thing as a good enough INT or dropped pass.

Martin blocking Peppers out in space on the run is a bit like Martin playing Peppers 1-on-1 in basketball. The 6-4, 320 pound medium arm length Martin is not going to win 1-on-1 in basketball against the 6-6, 280, long armed Peppers ever. It is a mismatch out in space in terms of ability for OLinemen against DEs and OLBs. They have to just do their best which in this case to to make certain that Peppers had to go outside and around him to get back in the play. That block would likely have been good enough 99% of the time.

Back when Houck was the OL coach, he would have had Martin going for a perfect block and Peppers would have easily stepped inside and shut down that run. The current OL coaching concept of what I call fail-safe has been a big part of making this OL possibly the top run blocking unit in the NFL. Houck had years in the mid 2000s where they had a lot of talent but not this much success.

 

[DallasInDC]

Not sure how many times if any this has been covered, but do you think our O-Line will be as good as last year or worse?

Myself I'm hoping we're as good, but I expect we take a few steps back. Why?

We lost Bill Callahan our OL coach for the past 3 years. A lot of fans think it's mainly talent that gets the job done, but in reality coaching has a huge impact. A coach has to know when to get in a players face, or use kid gloves. They also have to know which players you can use to motivate, and one's that are self motivating. Now we have a OL coach I've never heard of, not sure how good he is, but as I said I'm expecting us to take a step or two back, I'm hoping we take a step forward and are even more dominant. I'm also hoping Bill isn't nearly as successful in Washington as he's been in Dallas and other places he's coached.

As long as we are healthy then I think we will be as good if not better than last year. Continuity (not just on the line but across the entire offense), repetition, and another offseason weight training/conditioning program (for Martin Fredrick) will go a long way to this OL performing better. I hear what you are saying about losing Callahan, but what we do not know is how good(or bad) Frank Pollack will be as an OL coach compared to Callahan. I have heard nothing but great things about Pollack and there seems to be no reason to anticipate a drop off because Callahan is gone.

There is one other factor that could negatively affect the OLs performance this year and that is the quality of the opponent's defense (players schemes) that we will face compared to last year. But I am confident that this line will be good and live up to their growing reputation.

 

[mattjames2010]

If you understand the scheme and how they coach him, you'll understand why he lunged. He was making certain that Peppers did jump back inside. Martin made the split second decision that the timing and spacing was such that Peppers was going to get to the inside on him so he lunged to prevent that from happening.

Throwing INTs and dropping passes is not comparable to run blocking. It's all of nothing in those situations whereas in run blocking an ugly but good enough block is just that "good enough". There is no such thing as a good enough INT or dropped pass.

Martin blocking Peppers out in space on the run is a bit like Martin playing Peppers 1-on-1 in basketball. The 6-4, 320 pound medium arm length Martin is not going to win 1-on-1 in basketball against the 6-6, 280, long armed Peppers ever. It is a mismatch out in space in terms of ability for OLinemen against DEs and OLBs. They have to just do their best which in this case to to make certain that Peppers had to go outside and around him to get back in the play. That block would likely have been good enough 99% of the time.

Back when Houck was the OL coach, he would have had Martin going for a perfect block and Peppers would have easily stepped inside and shut down that run. The current OL coaching concept of what I call fail-safe has been a big part of making this OL possibly the top run blocking unit in the NFL. Houck had years in the mid 2000s where they had a lot of talent but not this much success.

Except it wasn't good enough, clearly. I am not stating Martin needed to knock Peppers off his feet, I'm stating leading with your head and whiffing on a block and allowing Peppers to do a quick side step and go was nowhere near "good enough".

A good enough block would have meant Peppers never even would have had a reach on Murray. The design of the play is not the issue, it was the execution on the players part.

 

[xwalker]

Except it wasn't good enough, clearly. I am not stating Martin needed to knock Peppers off his feet, I'm stating leading with your head and whiffing on a block and allowing Peppers to do a quick side step and go was nowhere near "good enough".

A good enough block would have meant Peppers never even would have had a reach on Murray. The design of the play is not the issue, it was the execution on the players part.

As I explained, that would be good enough a vast majority of the time. It was actually good enough as executed if Murray had maintained possession of the ball. Peppers was not going to make the tackle.

When the offensive coaches are designing run plays they don't say "hey we have to design this such that no defender can touch Murray's arm because we can't expect him to maintain possession of the ball on a slight nudge".

 

[mattjames2010]

As I explained, that would be good enough a vast majority of the time. It was actually good enough as executed if Murray had maintained possession of the ball. Peppers was not going to make the tackle.

When the offensive coaches are designing run plays they don't say "hey we have to design this such that no defender can touch Murray's arm because we can't expect him to maintain possession of the ball on a slight nudge".

Actually, I think most offensive coaches would tell you not to put your head down and pray that you make a nice block when going up against one of the better defenders in the league. Martin looked like a fool on that play waling his arms around while nearly falling down.

Poor execution often times leads to a bad outcome. Both the bad block and Murray not securing the ball attest to this.

 

[DallasEast]

As I explained, that would be good enough a vast majority of the time. It was actually good enough as executed if Murray had maintained possession of the ball. Peppers was not going to make the tackle.

When the offensive coaches are designing run plays they don't say "hey we have to design this such that no defender can touch Murray's arm because we can't expect him to maintain possession of the ball on a slight nudge".

 

[Aven8]

As I explained, that would be good enough a vast majority of the time. It was actually good enough as executed if Murray had maintained possession of the ball. Peppers was not going to make the tackle.

When the offensive coaches are designing run plays they don't say "hey we have to design this such that no defender can touch Murray's arm because we can't expect him to maintain possession of the ball on a slight nudge".

As I stated shortly after that game, sometimes the other guys make a play as well. Peppers has been doing that kind of stuff his entire career. The block was fine, he just made an outstanding play!

 

[CowboyRoy]

Not sure how many times if any this has been covered, but do you think our O-Line will be as good as last year or worse?

Myself I'm hoping we're as good, but I expect we take a few steps back. Why?

We lost Bill Callahan our OL coach for the past 3 years. A lot of fans think it's mainly talent that gets the job done, but in reality coaching has a huge impact. A coach has to know when to get in a players face, or use kid gloves. They also have to know which players you can use to motivate, and one's that are self motivating. Now we have a OL coach I've never heard of, not sure how good he is, but as I said I'm expecting us to take a step or two back, I'm hoping we take a step forward and are even more dominant. I'm also hoping Bill isn't nearly as successful in Washington as he's been in Dallas and other places he's coached.

Better. These young guys are all a year older and more experienced together. And we have better depth than last year.

 

[burmafrd]

As I explained, that would be good enough a vast majority of the time. It was actually good enough as executed if Murray had maintained possession of the ball. Peppers was not going to make the tackle.

When the offensive coaches are designing run plays they don't say "hey we have to design this such that no defender can touch Murray's arm because we can't expect him to maintain possession of the ball on a slight nudge".

don't waste any more time on him. He wants to blame Martin for Murray not securing the ball and nothing else matters

 

[xwalker]

Actually, I think most offensive coaches would tell you not to put your head down and pray that you make a nice block when going up against one of the better defenders in the league. Martin looked like a fool on that play waling his arms around while nearly falling down.

Poor execution often times leads to a bad outcome. Both the bad block and Murray not securing the ball attest to this.

I can see where that is how it would look to someone that is not experienced in evaluating the play of OLinemen.

 

[Doomsday101]

As I explained, that would be good enough a vast majority of the time. It was actually good enough as executed if Murray had maintained possession of the ball. Peppers was not going to make the tackle.

When the offensive coaches are designing run plays they don't say "hey we have to design this such that no defender can touch Murray's arm because we can't expect him to maintain possession of the ball on a slight nudge".

As Gale Sayers once said "Give me 18 inches of daylight, that's all I need"

 

[dallasdave]

Not sure how many times if any this has been covered, but do you think our O-Line will be as good as last year or worse?

Myself I'm hoping we're as good, but I expect we take a few steps back. Why?

We lost Bill Callahan our OL coach for the past 3 years. A lot of fans think it's mainly talent that gets the job done, but in reality coaching has a huge impact. A coach has to know when to get in a players face, or use kid gloves. They also have to know which players you can use to motivate, and one's that are self motivating. Now we have a OL coach I've never heard of, not sure how good he is, but as I said I'm expecting us to take a step or two back, I'm hoping we take a step forward and are even more dominant. I'm also hoping Bill isn't nearly as successful in Washington as he's been in Dallas and other places he's coached.

Good post !!!

 

[dallasdave]

Miami will be a test. Suh is a beat down: ref last year.

Suh is a handfull

 

[FLcowboy]

Not sure how many times if any this has been covered, but do you think our O-Line will be as good as last year or worse?

Myself I'm hoping we're as good, but I expect we take a few steps back. Why?

We lost Bill Callahan our OL coach for the past 3 years. A lot of fans think it's mainly talent that gets the job done, but in reality coaching has a huge impact. A coach has to know when to get in a players face, or use kid gloves. They also have to know which players you can use to motivate, and one's that are self motivating. Now we have a OL coach I've never heard of, not sure how good he is, but as I said I'm expecting us to take a step or two back, I'm hoping we take a step forward and are even more dominant. I'm also hoping Bill isn't nearly as successful in Washington as he's been in Dallas and other places he's coached.

I'm thinking it will be as good, simply because Collins is the backup and will spell Martin and Leary when they get banged up. The FO, not resting on their laurels, signed a swing tackle from Chicago that has starting experience, so the Weems experiment might be over.