Oline- Terrible drafting or terrible coaching?

[ZiggyZ.]

Pull out your old draft guides and read about these guys:
Andre Gurode
Al Johnson
Jacob Rogers
Stephen Peterman
Torrin Tucker

These 5 guys were supposed to be absolute maulers, and all were expected to be gone by the 2nd round, as all but Tucker were.

So what is the problem? The Boys draft room clearly agreed with the pundits as they took 4 of these guys really high in the draft. Yet they all are deficient.

So were these guys bad picks, or did they receive poor coaching?

 

[Rush 2112]

3 major injuries in AJ, Rogers and Peterman, Gurode a bust+sprinkle in some possible bad coaching.

 

[acheman]

I would actually blame in order of impact #1injuries and age, then #2 coaching, then #3 drafting.

 

[Hiero]

drafting.

 

[InDakWeTrust]

In one word...Both.

First, we went after one dimensional guys, like Al-Undersized pass blocker, Andre-Physical but not smart, Rogers-Pure pass blocker with no strength, Peterman-Physical but not smart, and Tucker-Has everything needed to be a ProBowl OG except for smarts...
And secondly, not bringing in the coaches to make these guys stronger, smarter and more confident.

We need to cut our losses and completely rebuild the Oline from the coach up.

 

[Clove]

Pull out your old draft guides and read about these guys:
Andre Gurode
Al Johnson
Jacob Rogers
Stephen Peterman
Torrin Tucker

These 5 guys were supposed to be absolute maulers, and all were expected to be gone by the 2nd round, as all but Tucker were.

So what is the problem? The Boys draft room clearly agreed with the pundits as they took 4 of these guys really high in the draft. Yet they all are deficient.

So were these guys bad picks, or did they receive poor coaching?

No dang way all of these guys can be busts. I'd have to say that OLINE coaching will need a significant up grade or tongue lashing this offseason.

 

[InDakWeTrust]

Actually with a great Oline coach that could be our Oline for the future
LT-Rogers
LG-Peterman
C-Johnson
RG-Gurode
RT=Tucker
Me likely if we can coach them well enough.

 

[Eddie]

How did we win 3 Super Bowls with no one drafted higher than a 2nd rounder???

Let's see:

Tui - converted DT. 12 year vet from old regime which no one wanted.
Nate Newton - FA who didn't pan out in the USFL or the Commanders.
Step - 2nd round pick
Kevin Gogan - low round draft pick.
Eric Williams - 4th rounder who turned into the best RT we ever had.

So what gives? Even after 1992, when we lost Stepnoski, we still won a Super Bowl with that guy from Seattle. He wound up missing the playoffs, and we won the SB with his backup.

 

[joseephuss]

Tucker wasn't drafted, so that is a positive for the scouting department.

 

[Juke99]

Rogers was an injury waiting to happen when he was drafted. .

There is also no personality to this line....unless "lousy" can be considered a personality...and most of that is coaching.

The O Line can benefit from good coaching as much as, if not more than, other positions. It's easier to make a serviceable offensive lineman than any other position. Yet, this line is a disaster.

I think it's a combination of drafting and coaching.

 

[Mike 1967]

Both

Although in all fairness.....Parcells inherited Allen and Flo went out with an injury.

The LT is almost as important as the QB in todays NFL. That position is so expensive that you cannot affort to carry a quality backup at that position.

Last year the Commanders lost their starting tackle....and their running game was nowhere near what it is this year.

 

[Alexander]

In one word...Both.

First, we went after one dimensional guys, like Al-Undersized pass blocker, Andre-Physical but not smart, Rogers-Pure pass blocker with no strength, Peterman-Physical but not smart, and Tucker-Has everything needed to be a ProBowl OG except for smarts...
And secondly, not bringing in the coaches to make these guys stronger, smarter and more confident.

We need to cut our losses and completely rebuild the Oline from the coach up.

It is both.

We obviously tried something different this year because one of the reasons Warhop was fired was because of his difference in "philosophy" from Coach Parcells.

We also had some untimely injuries and some very bad talent.

 

[joseephuss]

How did we win 3 Super Bowls with no one drafted higher than a 2nd rounder???

Let's see:

Tui - converted DT. 12 year vet from old regime which no one wanted.
Nate Newton - FA who didn't pan out in the USFL or the Commanders.
Step - 2nd round pick
Kevin Gogan - low round draft pick.
Eric Williams - 4th rounder who turned into the best RT we ever had.

So what gives? Even after 1992, when we lost Stepnoski, we still won a Super Bowl with that guy from Seattle. He wound up missing the playoffs, and we won the SB with his backup.

Ray Donaldson was a very good center and well regarded. It was a great pick up by Dallas in 1995. Too bad he got hurt at the end of the year. The running game was clearly not as good when he wasn't there. Still good enough to win the Superbowl with Derek Kinnard.

You also left out that Step got hurt at the end of the 93 season. John Gesek was the center in Superbowl 28.

I guess coaching went a long ways back then and a little luck that some of these guys panned out. That and Irvin, Aikman and Smith really were that good. They lifted up everyone else around them.

 

[Clove]

Actually with a great Oline coach that could be our Oline for the future
LT-Rogers
LG-Peterman
C-Johnson
RG-Gurode
RT=Tucker
Me likely if we can coach them well enough.

Take Johnson off of that list please. And Tucker shouldn't be at that position either...

 

[demdcowboys#1]

I think Gurode is a decent O lineman. I mean with a good offseason and OL coach, we could see some drastic improvement in him. I think he has loads of potential, i wanna see him back!!

As for tucker, johnson-----"Get them outta here"

 

[StanleySpadowski]

It's terrible coaching/chemistry.


Look at the successful lines. Pittsburgh plugs in darn near any backup and runs over almost any defense. Why, because every lineman they have has the same strengths and they fit the mauling scheme. Same can be said for Atlanta (starting Lehr) or Denver both with 5 mobile guys.

Dallas has a mauler with decent mobility in Adams, Allen's mobility makes Bledsoe look like Vick, Johnson's strength is his mobility as is Rivera's. Pettiti is a mauling type without the power to do it yet.

Instead of going together like peanut butter and jelly, the mishmashed styles go together like peanut butter and mayonaise.

 

[Clove]

It's terrible coaching/chemistry.


Look at the successful lines. Pittsburgh plugs in darn near any backup and runs over almost any defense. Why, because every lineman they have has the same strengths and they fit the mauling scheme. Same can be said for Atlanta (starting Lehr) or Denver both with 5 mobile guys.

Dallas has a mauler with decent mobility in Adams, Allen's mobility makes Bledsoe look like Vick, Johnson's strength is his mobility as is Rivera's. Pettiti is a mauling type without the power to do it yet.

Instead of going together like peanut butter and jelly, the mishmashed styles go together like peanut butter and mayonaise.

Good point. Maybe they need to decide what type of running scheme is going to work for which side. I don't ever want to see LA pulling again as long as we both shall live.

And I don't want to see Johnson period, he's a good pulling blocker, but can't get push off the line.. And tucker is a 2nd string guard at best. Petitti should not be on the roster.

 

[Jarv]

We mixed philosophies, athletic linemen vs. road pavers. Denver, Indy...teams like that have athletic linemen that can pull and trap. KC and Oakland like the big powerful bruisers that just run you over. We never really established an identity on which way we wanted to go.

BP inherited LA and Flozel. So we were halfway into the bruising line. Al Johnson, Lehr, Rogers were the more athletic types.

We should choose our path and pick up via FA and draft all in the same mode.

 

[kmd24]

There is a little lag time with OL development (as opposed to, say, RB). Even Robert Gallery, Jordan Gross, and Shawn Andrews struggled at times early on. Tucker is a converted guard and Petitti a converted LT. Johnson and Peterman suffered serious injuries, hampering their development.

To my untrained eye, it looked like Petitti and Tucker could not make adjustments as opponents gathered more game tape on them. Both had moderate success early on but struggled progressively more as the season wore on.

I am also of the opinion that Pettiti hit the wall late, something common for rookies but perhaps moreso for a guy who dropped, what, 50 pounds, in a relatively short time frame. The year I lost 40 pounds in about 30 weeks, I was noticeably weaker for about 6 months. I am not an elite athlete, though.

There is still time for these guys to turn the corner. Not saying they will, but I don't think the final chapter has been written for all of them yet.

 

[TunaFan33]

Pull out your old draft guides and read about these guys:
Andre Gurode
Al Johnson
Jacob Rogers
Stephen Peterman
Torrin Tucker

These 5 guys were supposed to be absolute maulers, and all were expected to be gone by the 2nd round, as all but Tucker were.

So what is the problem? The Boys draft room clearly agreed with the pundits as they took 4 of these guys really high in the draft. Yet they all are deficient.

So were these guys bad picks, or did they receive poor coaching?

To me, coaching is the problem more than anything else. Aside from that girly-man Rogers, the rest of the list still looks OK to me.

Frankly, that 02 Super Bowl Tampa team had an OL worse than our's now(their young, inexperienced RT, Kenyada Walker, was worse than what our Rob Petitti is now-and he had to learn
Gruden's complex schemes to boot).

However-Tampa showed alot of progress that year b/c of just that-COACHING. Say all you want how Al and Rob suck badly, but they REGRESSED late in the season-which is when young players START TO PROGRESS.