One thing I noticed from the TC report...

[trickblue]

They showed a graphic of Demarcus Ware showing he had 11.5 sacks last year. The most by any Cowboy since 1996..

Did you know that the record for sacks in a season is 22.5 by Michael Strahan. Now, we all know Favre took a dive to give him that record...

What you DIDN'T know is that they started recording sacks for a season in 1978. One year after Harvey Martin recorded 23 in the 1977 season...

How the late great Harvey Martin isn't in the HoF is beyond me...

When I lived in Dallas we used to go to the Stoneleigh P and shoot pool with him. He was a really nice guy and always approachable by Cowboy fans. He used to sit at the corner right by the bathroom. He never shunned a fan and always was gracious and nice. He had his issues, but he was a class guy to Cowboy fans...

The cool thing about living in Dallas during the glory years of Landry was that the players could go out on the town and just be acknowledged rather than being mobbed. Harvey was shy, but accessible. He could never understand his popularity. He once told me that he really appreciated Cowboy fans and their love for the team, but he couldn't understand why he was so popular...

He was a genuinely a good guy and a great player...

 

[Hostile]

It goes deeper than that too Trick. 1977 was the last year that the NFL played 14 games per season. So he recorded 23 sacks in 14 games. Strahan recorded 22.5 in 16 games.

 

[Hoov]

sounds like a cool cat. the kind of guy that a stranger could walk up to, start a conversation and if it clicked he'd treat you like a brother. to me that is the meaning of classy or being cool, taking somone at face value and dealing with who they are and where they are at or coming from in the moment.

 

[dbair1967]

It goes deeper than that too Trick. 1977 was the last year that the NFL played 14 games per season. So he recorded 23 sacks in 14 games. Strahan recorded 22.5 in 16 games.

and Harvey didnt get any "bogus" sacks either

David

 

[28 Joker]

I didn't know this. If Dallas beats Pittsburgh in one of those Super Bowl, he's in the Hall of Fame. He should be there. What a joke! That D-line was stout. Randy White wouldn't have been the player he was without Martin and Ed Jones at the two DE spots.

Man, I wish they could have won for Landry in 70 and 78, because the Cowboys should have made him a four time Super Bowl winner. Those games, especially the 1970 game, were given away.

 

[trickblue]

sounds like a cool cat. the kind of guy that a stranger could walk up to, start a conversation and if it clicked he'd treat you like a brother. to me that is the meaning of classy or being cool, taking somone at face value and dealing with who they are and where they are at or coming from in the moment.

I'm willing to bet that there are some here that can verify the old Stoneleigh P. Harvey was there most every night. He was a very "cool cat" and loved to talk to people....

He is HIGHLY under-rated as an NFL force...

This is a guy that outperformed Randy White. I would love to ask Randy about him but I have never really had more than a few quick interfaces with him...

 

[AbeBeta]

Is this a Cowboy bias issue or is it a general bias against players for whom stats were not available?

He was a great player but may be penalized for not being as great as he could have been and his off the field issue do impact his evaluation -- especially in the absence of official statistics.

 

[jobberone]

Is this a Cowboy bias issue or is it a general bias against players for whom stats were not available?

He was a great player but may be penalized for not being as great as he could have been and his off the field issue do impact his evaluation -- especially in the absence of official statistics.

It is a Cowboy thing` If we had won another SB we would have nore HOF players`

 

[theogt]

It is a Cowboy thing` If we had won another SB we would have nore HOF players`

What happened to your "." key?

 

[AbeBeta]

It is a Cowboy thing` If we had won another SB we would have nore HOF players`

but any team that won more SBs would have more HoF players, right?

 

[TheKey]

Comparing players from different eras is almost impossible now-a-days. Back to the topic though, I agree. Ole Harve was a good player.

 

[trickblue]

Is this a Cowboy bias issue or is it a general bias against players for whom stats were not available?

He was a great player but may be penalized for not being as great as he could have been and his off the field issue do impact his evaluation -- especially in the absence of official statistics.

Well, it very well could be bias... or not...

I offer you this. The All-Decade Team of the 70's has several great players. Out of all of those players, the following are not in the HoF:

Ken Stabler
Harold Carmichael
Drew Pearson
LC Greenwood
Harvey Martin
Robert Brazile
Louis Wright
Cliff Harris

Now, three of these are very much identified with the Cowboys. Pearson, Martin and Harris. Carmichael did have a year with us.

Lets break it down in the same era:

Wide Receivers:
Drew Pearson - Hof - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Harold Carmichael - HoF - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Lynn Swann - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - Yes
Paul Warfield - Yes - All Decade Team - Yes
Charlie Joiner - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
Steve Largent - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
James Lofton - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
John Stallworth - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No

Every player here on the All-Decade team is in the HoF except for Pearson and Carmichael...
Four players NOT on the All-Decade Team are in...

Defensive Line:
Carl Eller - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - Yes
LC Greenwood - Hof - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Harvey Martin - Hof - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Jack Youngblood - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - Yes
Joe Greene - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
Lee Roy Selmon - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No

Every player here on the All-Decade team is in the HoF except for Greenwood and Martin...
Two players NOT on the All-Decade Team are in...

Safety:
Cliff Harris - Hof - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Dick Anderson - Hof - Yes - All-Decade Team - Yes
Ken Houston - Hof - Yes - All-Decade Team - Yes
Larry Wilson - Hof - Yes - All-Decade Team - Yes
Paul Krause - Hof - Yes - All-Decade Team - No
Roger Wherli - Hof - Yes - All-Decade Team - No

Every player here on the All-Decade team is in the HoF except for Harris...
Two players NOT on the All-Decade Team are in...

The amazing thing here is to see the players that weren't even on the All-Decade team that made the HoF...

 

[burmafrd]

I think the all decade team really did not get a lot of press untill the last few years. Also it appears some of the people voting for the HOF have no knowledge of it. But then again that is not suprising.

 

[joseephuss]

It goes deeper than that too Trick. 1977 was the last year that the NFL played 14 games per season. So he recorded 23 sacks in 14 games. Strahan recorded 22.5 in 16 games.

I think you lost me. If he got 23 sacks in 1978, then that was a 16 game schedule. The 1977 season was 14 games.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

It goes deeper than that too Trick. 1977 was the last year that the NFL played 14 games per season. So he recorded 23 sacks in 14 games. Strahan recorded 22.5 in 16 games.

Wow....you know I had forgotten that.......Martin was taken for granted.....I just knew he would come up with the big sack for us.

 

[jwitten82]

How do people know he recorded 23 sacks, I thought they didn't record sacks until later on.

 

[joseephuss]

How do people know he recorded 23 sacks, I thought they didn't record sacks until later on.

The NFL did not officially recognize the sack back then, but many teams tracked them for their own records.

 

[dbair1967]

How do people know he recorded 23 sacks, I thought they didn't record sacks until later on.

actually I've seen comments from some players that they thought it was more than that, but 23 is the number they've put with him

I remember Deacon Jones saying something similar as well, that if they had actually tracked it officially he'd have had more sacks

clearly some plays that were classified as QB scrambles for losses (runs) might have really been sacks

David

 

[burmafrd]

If you look a little closer you will see that he said the 23 came in the YEAR before 1978.
George Andrie is supposed to have had about the same number in 69, I think it was. they were called TRAPS back then.

 

[AbeBeta]

Well, it very well could be bias... or not...

I offer you this. The All-Decade Team of the 70's has several great players. Out of all of those players, the following are not in the HoF:

Ken Stabler
Harold Carmichael
Drew Pearson
LC Greenwood
Harvey Martin
Robert Brazile
Louis Wright
Cliff Harris

Now, three of these are very much identified with the Cowboys. Pearson, Martin and Harris. Carmichael did have a year with us.

Lets break it down in the same era:

Wide Receivers:
Drew Pearson - Hof - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Harold Carmichael - HoF - No - All-Decade Team - Yes
Lynn Swann - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - Yes
Paul Warfield - Yes - All Decade Team - Yes
Charlie Joiner - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
Steve Largent - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
James Lofton - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No
John Stallworth - HoF - Yes - All Decade Team - No

Every player here on the All-Decade team is in the HoF except for Pearson and Carmichael...
Four players NOT on the All-Decade Team are in...

The amazing thing here is to see the players that weren't even on the All-Decade team that made the HoF...

I'll just take the WRs on here.

The All-decade thing is nice but all-decade isn't best ever. Also, Largent and Lofton are on all-decade teams for the 80s. Joiner's status for the all-decade is hurt by the fact that his great seasons were split between the 70s and 80s equally. He was clearly a better WR than Drew. These lists do focus on decade specific performance and there are guys who didn't dominate in a single decade. He's a guy who got in on longevity. Finally, Art Monk is on the 80s all-decade and not in the hall. So what you are focusing on is a bit narrow given the other all-decade team players and their outcomes.

I've noted before that Swan/Stallworth are bad comparisons since they are just about the worst WRs in the Hall.