Our Last Offensive play - Dalton Schultz

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,841
Reaction score
16,028
He appeared to hook his right arm impeding his progress to the ball and you can’t see the grab from behind from that angle. Granted it wasn’t much of a grab.

If you couldn't see the grab from that angle, then from what angle could you see it from and I'll pull the video. I just watched the play itself and showed you the replay and there was no pull of the jersey that I saw. Where did YOU see it?
 
Last edited:

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,841
Reaction score
16,028
He "materially restricted" Schultz from coming back to make a play on the ball. Even a slight hold is huge in such circumstances. We see it differently.

Yeah, there was no material restriction. Shultz was able to work himself into perfect position to catch the ball. For all intents and purposes this was a Hail Mary. How many times have you seen contact flagged in a Hail Mary situation? Almost never unless it's blatant. Shultz just chose not to jump to contest anyone else.
 

Vanilla2

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,359
Reaction score
8,747
Reminded me of the infamous. If this is the worst thing that happens to me game.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
56,526
Reaction score
34,778
If you couldn't see the grab from that angle, then from what angle could you see it from and I'll pull the video. I just watched the play itself and showed you the replay and there was no pull of the jersey that I saw.

Not sure what you’re looking at but several including myself could see the DB reach for the back of Schultz to keep him from coming back for the ball. It appeared to be a slight tug but not enough to get a call. Could have very easily been a PI on the clip you posted for the DB hooking Schultz’ right arm. You can’t impede a receiver from making a play on the ball.


 
Last edited:

Swagger

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
7,693
Yeah, there was no material restriction. Shultz was able to work himself into perfect position to catch the ball. For all intents and purposes this was a Hail Mary. How many times have you seen contact flagged in a Hail Mary situation? Almost never unless it's blatant. Shultz just chose not to jump to contest anyone else.
I'm not disagreeing really but my point is that I have seen a flag thrown for that. I think it's a 50/50 call as just before Schultz decides to move towards the ball you see his body move sidewards from being momentarily grabbed/hooked/tugged by the defender. There isn't much in it but it did hinder his ability to make a play for the ball which is why a flag has been thrown for that.
 

Swagger

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
7,693
It's one of those for me where if there was a flag thrown for it after you see the replay I would think that's a tough call but with how the rules are applied these days you just suck it up.
 

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,841
Reaction score
16,028
I'm not disagreeing really but my point is that I have seen a flag thrown for that. I think it's a 50/50 call as just before Schultz decides to move towards the ball you see his body move sidewards from being momentarily grabbed/hooked/tugged by the defender. There isn't much in it but it did hinder his ability to make a play for the ball which is why a flag has been thrown for that.

It's just like that Ramsay/Gallup play from the beginning of the year. Worse contact than this was taking place until Gallup made a blatant pushoff to draw the flag. You can make contact and you can move a guy but not "materially." Here's where I've seen a flag thrown and it was obvious why. Where have you seen a flag thrown for this kind of contact because people use this "I've seen" line all the time with no specifics cited?
 

Swagger

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
7,693
It's just like that Ramsay/Gallup play from the beginning of the year. Worse contact than this was taking place until Gallup made a blatant pushoff to draw the flag. You can make contact and you can move a guy but not "materially." Here's where I've seen a flag thrown and it was obvious why. Where have you seen a flag thrown for this kind of contact because people use this "I've seen" line all the time with no specifics cited?
A lot of people unrelated to the Cowboys adjudged Ramsay to have hooked and held Gallup and that the flag should have been thrown against him. I thought it could have gone either way. I can't think of an exact example right now but from watching countless games I have seen a flag thrown for a similar hold to the one on Schultz. Maybe someone else with a better memory than me will post an example!
 

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,841
Reaction score
16,028
Not sure what you’re looking at but several including myself could see the DB reach for the back of Schultz to keep him from coming back for the ball. It appeared to be a slight tug but not enough to get a call. Could have very easily been a PI on the clip you posted for the DB hooking Schultz’ right arm. You can’t impede a receiver from making a play on the ball.




Went back and looked at my video frame by frame and he did pull down on the jersey a little on Shultz' left, you're correct. That is still not a material restriction as it would have been pulling back on the jersey. Again, that is the key phrase for holding. Was it material?

As for PI, swiping at an arm not hot holding it down is not PI. And the point of this thread is Shultz didn't make a play on the ball. He sat there waiting for the ball to land in his hands. He was not restricted from doing that. A DB can make the exact same motion to a receiver topping off his route before turning around and it's not PI, especially if he's not all over the guy as the ball arrives.
 

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,841
Reaction score
16,028
A lot of people unrelated to the Cowboys adjudged Ramsay to have hooked and held Gallup and that the flag should have been thrown against him. I thought it could have gone either way. I can't think of an exact example right now but from watching countless games I have seen a flag thrown for a similar hold to the one on Schultz. Maybe someone else with a better memory than me will post an example!

On the Ramsay play, Gallup put a hand in his chest first to keep him off him and Ramsay reacted with a move of his own. That's all good until Gallup pushed back with a clear arm extension. Like I said, they were in much closer contact and for much longer than on this play and that contact was fine until Gallup extended the arm.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
56,526
Reaction score
34,778
Went back and looked at my video frame by frame and he did pull down on the jersey a little on Shultz' left, you're correct. That is still not a material restriction as it would have been pulling back on the jersey. Again, that is the key phrase for holding. Was it material?

As for PI, swiping at an arm not hot holding it down is not PI. And the point of this thread is Shultz didn't make a play on the ball. He sat there waiting for the ball to land in his hands. He was not restricted from doing that. A DB can make the exact same motion to a receiver topping off his route before turning around and it's not PI, especially if he's not all over the guy as the ball arrives.

Like I said there wasn’t enough on the tug/grab to warrant a call. A DB reaching around a receiver and hooking their arm while they’re going up for a ball can easily warrant a PI. Had the ball not been underthrown there might have been a call. The bottom line is the ball was thrown up for grabs.
 

MarcusRock

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,841
Reaction score
16,028
Like I said there wasn’t enough on the tug/grab to warrant a call. A DB reaching around a receiver and hooking their arm while they’re going up for a ball can easily warrant a PI. Had the ball not been underthrown there might have been a call. The bottom line is the ball was thrown up for grabs.

I agree with your point the ball was underthrown. If you're going to your tallest receiver, give him a chance to use his height.
 

Loso86

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,549
Reaction score
3,777
I thought he could have done a better job going after the ball. He was held a little bit but he never attacked the ball. I think he could have done a better job and caught it.

What do ya think?
Not even
 

Loso86

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,549
Reaction score
3,777
I thought he could have done a better job going after the ball. He was held a little bit but he never attacked the ball. I think he could have done a better job and caught it.

What do ya think?
Even more so 14 shouldve been more patient, had plenty of time and couldve ran for 7 yards or so and made the 4th n goal easier
 

Cowpolk

Landry Hat
Messages
18,849
Reaction score
28,791
I thought he could have done a better job going after the ball. He was held a little bit but he never attacked the ball. I think he could have done a better job and caught it.

What do ya think?
He tried but was held big time held
 

Reality

Staff member
Messages
30,478
Reaction score
69,399
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I thought he could have done a better job going after the ball. He was held a little bit but he never attacked the ball. I think he could have done a better job and caught it.

What do ya think?
One of the first things they tell quarterbacks is do not throw floating passes in the middle area of the field, especially near the goal line because the defensive backs are looking at the ball.
 

Redsfan_83

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,511
Reaction score
3,827
He is a champ, and the last guy on the team who should take any heat for this disgrace
 
Top