Parcells/Phillips injury philosophy

[StanleySpadowski]

Seeing Glenn getting a minor scope really made me think of the difference between Parcells and Phillips and I'm as happy as I can be.

I think everyone will admit that Parcells hated when a player missed practice and used every intimidation trick in his book to get that player back on the field. We saw Owens come back too soon from a hamstring last camp and reinjure himself. We saw Henry hobble through the last half of the year.

Phillips seems to want people to play at 100%. We've seen Owens sit out a day for "tired legs" and the Glenn situation. I really believe that Glenn doesn't get his knee done if Parcells was still here. A week off then a gimpy Glenn for the entire year.

Phillips' Stanback comments really have me thinking this also. He said something about a potential starter someday. Positive reinforcement knowing that it's a long camp and he'll get his shot when he's ready. I can hear a Parcells' PC about Stanback; "We won't know anything about him until he practices and it's hard to keep someone we don't know about".

I don't know how bad Burnett's concussion is but I'll bet that he doesn't see the practice field for awhile. Does anyone doubt that he'd already be back if Parcells was still in Dallas? Given the recent press about concussions and retired players, I think everyone would agree that safe is better than sorry.

It's a long camp and a long year so I'm willing to go on record right now that Dallas will be better than 2-3 after Thanksgiving this season.

 

[Marktui]

I agree, you have to be carefull with your key players. TG, TO, Witten, JJ, MB111.....guys that the team will need during the season have to be healthy coming out of training camp. Or at least with fresh legs!

Bill Walsh used to do the same thing, he would tone down practice and to keep his players ready to go for the games and not kill them during training camp.

TC back in the day was the time to get your team in shape for the season, not anymore, these guys are in good shape all year long.

Maybe this does help our late season gloom, we will have to see.

 

[sago1]

Agree. I don't see any of the players we have displaying any goof off traits so when they get hurt they should take is easy. It's a long season and we need them at full strength. Maybe w/o our knowing it so many were so badly dinged up from trying to constantly be on the field that could have contributed to our December meltdowns. A little rest this early & even occasionally during the season isn't the worst thing that can happen -- so long as we don't get the sense that some of these players are taking advantage of Wade. Frankly I don't see that happening as we deep in several positions and you could lose your job if your really not hurt.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Agree. I don't see any of the players we have displaying any goof off traits so when they get hurt they should take is easy. It's a long season and we need them at full strength. Maybe w/o our knowing it so many were so badly dinged up from trying to constantly be on the field that could have contributed to our December meltdowns. A little rest this early & even occasionally during the season isn't the worst thing that can happen -- so long as we don't get the sense that some of these players are taking advantage of Wade. Frankly I don't see that happening as we deep in several positions and you could lose your job if your really not hurt.

I think you're right that it's great as long as it's not taken advantage of.

The one thing I will credit Parcells for is building a team with a strong work ethic. Even the biggest malcontents in Ellis, T. Glenn and Owens can never be knocked for not working their tails off.

 

[peplaw06]

Honestly, I think Bill would have been fine with Glenn getting taken care of. Bill loves her.

As for TO, would have never gotten a day off without citing an injury.

And Stanback... you can pile on Parcells for saying "I don't know," and creating pressure to practice and show something, but you probably waste fewer roster spots that way.

There are different ways of getting through to players. Some respond to challenges, some respond to positive reinforcement. It's hard to tell which way is better at this point. Hopefully our guys respond better to Wade. But I'm not one for piling on Bill, his way worked for a lot of guys.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

A new Sheriff is in town for sure--and I like it better as a fan

 

[Real1st]

The team vibe looks good all around. alot of guys are smiling and saying whats different and better about wade.. i cant wait for the season to start:bang2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

good post Stanley, I was going to ask if we were having this many knee issues w/ Parcells as coach, but your post got me to thinking, that under Parcells, we probably wouldn't have heard about half of these injuries

 

[Stautner]

Seeing Glenn getting a minor scope really made me think of the difference between Parcells and Phillips and I'm as happy as I can be.

I think everyone will admit that Parcells hated when a player missed practice and used every intimidation trick in his book to get that player back on the field. We saw Owens come back too soon from a hamstring last camp and reinjure himself. We saw Henry hobble through the last half of the year.

Phillips seems to want people to play at 100%. We've seen Owens sit out a day for "tired legs" and the Glenn situation. I really believe that Glenn doesn't get his knee done if Parcells was still here. A week off then a gimpy Glenn for the entire year.

Phillips' Stanback comments really have me thinking this also. He said something about a potential starter someday. Positive reinforcement knowing that it's a long camp and he'll get his shot when he's ready. I can hear a Parcells' PC about Stanback; "We won't know anything about him until he practices and it's hard to keep someone we don't know about".

I don't know how bad Burnett's concussion is but I'll bet that he doesn't see the practice field for awhile. Does anyone doubt that he'd already be back if Parcells was still in Dallas? Given the recent press about concussions and retired players, I think everyone would agree that safe is better than sorry.

It's a long camp and a long year so I'm willing to go on record right now that Dallas will be better than 2-3 after Thanksgiving this season.

This is one of those "on the surface" kind of things - the kind of thing that the media grabs onto to sell papers, and the kind of thing that fans desperate to find somthing controversial latch onto as well.

We don't know everythnig going on with players, and TO is well known for dogging TC, and appeared to be last year ....... and I'm sure Parcells has seen enough TC's to have an idea what's going on.

Let's be fair, if this is a story, then we should also say that Parcells never got a DE hurt by having him run sprints without warming up.

Sht happens guys - it's football and it's big guys pushing themselves and being pushed physically.

If you like Phillip's schemes and manner better, that's one thing, but this is looking too hard.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

This is one of those "on the surface" kind of things - the kind of thing that the media grabs onto to sell papers, and the kind of thing that fans desperate to find somthing controversial latch onto as well.

We don't know everythnig going on with players, and TO is well known for dogging TC, and appeared to be last year ....... and I'm sure Parcells has seen enough TC's to have an idea what's going on.

I haven't heard that one before, but care to enlighten me w/ a link?

If you like Phillip's schemes and manner better, that's one thing, but this is looking too hard.

I agree w/ you that **** happens, but Parcells is notorious for having his players play through pain unless it's a serious, delibitating(SP) injury, he would never have thought to hold a player out to "rest his legs", and someone complaining about knee soreness, Parcells most likely would have brushed it off, the new staff seems to take knicks and bruises much more carefully

btw, this is all coming from maybe the biggest Parcells supporter on the forum

 

[burmafrd]

Its the current fad- everything BP did was wrong. yawn

 

[Stautner]

I haven't heard that one before, but care to enlighten me w/ a link?



I agree w/ you that **** happens, but Parcells is notorious for having his players play through pain unless it's a serious, delibitating(SP) injury, he would never have thought to hold a player out to "rest his legs", and someone complaining about knee soreness, Parcells most likely would have brushed it off, the new staff seems to take knicks and bruises much more carefully

btw, this is all coming from maybe the biggest Parcells supporter on the forum

First: I will say that "dogging" practice is not really what I mean - avoiding it altogether is what TO has been known for. This is not shocking to anyone who has followed TO - last year was not the first TC he has missed significant parts of.

Second: I am clearly on the record as not supporting Parcells and I have clearly said many times that Parcells needed to go.

The kind of thinking that you are somehow a Parcells supporter unless you trash him for everything from the condition of the whirlpool to the warts on a player's foot is pretty small minded.

Its the current fad- everything BP did was wrong. yawn

Hell, he probably put too much bleach in the laundry too.

 

[WoodysGirl]

First: I will say that "dogging" practice is not really what I mean - avoiding it altogether is what TO has been known for. This is not shocking to anyone who has followed TO - last year was not the first TC he has missed significant parts of.

Since when??? I've never heard of TO attempting to avoid TC.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

First: I will say that "dogging" practice is not really what I mean - avoiding it altogether is what TO has been known for. This is not shocking to anyone who has followed TO - last year was not the first TC he has missed significant parts of.

LOL, he missed time because of a hamstring injury

again, show me a link that describes TO attempting to avoid TC, because all the reports I've seen is that TO is a tireless worker in the offseason and practices like it's his last day on Earth

The kind of thinking that you are somehow a Parcells supporter unless you trash him for everything from the condition of the whirlpool to the warts on a player's foot is pretty small minded.

hey, you brought up the issue by saying criticizing Parcells' practice habits as being a case of looking too hard for a reason to criticize him

 

[aikemirv]

I don't think it is looking too far at all.

I really can't believe that Henry with very bad wheels is better than Jaques Reeves on good ones.

Somethings you play through the pain with, knees are not one of them IMO because you have the rest of your life on those and I don't begrudge anyone for putting their knees ahead of football practice.

I really liked BP but there were some things that bothered me and this was one of them. The other was not letting the 53 active roster be on the sidelines!

They are part of the team!

I really have never heard of TO being a bad practice guy either.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You can put me with Stautner. Yeah, T.O. runs hard in practice. That's admirable. But he also wants to miss practice when he feels like it. This happened in Philly and San Francisco besides here last year.

With T.O., you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you're hard on him, like Bill and Haley and Brad Childress were, he takes it as "disprespect" or being too hard on him. If you're easy on him, like in San Fran or Andy Reid, he takes advantage of you.

Go ahead and bash me, but it's true. It's another reason I hope he's gone next year. Honestly, he's one of the few things that worries me about this team.

Sorry it that derails your thread, Stanley -- I didn't mean to. I do think there's a fine line between letting hurt guys rest and the whole team taking advantage of that policy to take days off. Maybe Parcells drew the line a little too far in one direction, but I hope we don't go too far in the other. No matter what anyone says, this is not a veteran team, and it's learning a new system on both sides of the ball to boot.

 

[Stautner]

Since when??? I've never heard of TO attempting to avoid TC.

He missed significant TC time in both SF and Philly.

Remember Philly - he held out for a better contract only one year after signing as a FA?

I told you that I misspoke with the use of the word "dogging", so get past that.

I told you that I misspoke with the use of the word "dogging", so get past that.

LOL, he missed time because of a hamstring injury

again, show me a link that describes TO attempting to avoid TC, because all the reports I've seen is that TO is a tireless worker in the offseason and practices like it's his last day on Earth

But that's not the same as being


hey, you brought up the issue by saying criticizing Parcells' practice habits as being a case of looking too hard for a reason to criticize him

Huh? Slow down and think before writing.

You are talking about 2 different things.

I didn't say he doesn't work hard in the offseason - I know he does.

And I'm not trashing his effort once in TC - when he is there and isn't slowed by some little injury or another. I told you that I misspoke with the use of the word "dogging", so get past that.

That's where the problem is - he holds out and/or has some reason why he can't be active in TC way too often - it happened in SF and in Philly.

I told you that I misspoke with the use of the word "dogging", so get past that.

I meant, and spoke in my last post about, his tendency not to participate in TC at all - not how hard he works when he actually shows up and says he is ready.

You can put me with Stautner. Yeah, T.O. runs hard in practice. That's admirable. But he also wants to miss practice when he feels like it. This happened in Philly and San Francisco besides here last year.

With T.O., you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you're hard on him, like Bill and Haley and Brad Childress were, he takes it as "disprespect" or being too hard on him. If you're easy on him, like in San Fran or Andy Reid, he takes advantage of you.

Go ahead and bash me, but it's true. It's another reason I hope he's gone next year. Honestly, he's one of the few things that worries me about this team.

Sorry it that derails your thread, Stanley -- I didn't mean to. I do think there's a fine line between letting hurt guys rest and the whole team taking advantage of that policy to take days off. Maybe Parcells drew the line a little too far in one direction, but I hope we don't go too far in the other. No matter what anyone says, this is not a veteran team, and it's learning a new system on both sides of the ball to boot.

\

Apparently most have forgotten that X-Rays, MRI's and personal examinations by the team physicians revealed no tear or discernable damage to TO's hamstring last year.

And I'm sure they also forgot that TO was the one who set the timetable for his return - Parcells actually was surprisingly mild about him sitting out.

 

[WoodysGirl]

He missed significant TC time in both SF and Philly.

Remember Philly - he held out for a better contract only one year after signing as a FA?

I told you that I misspoke with the use of the word "dogging", so get past that.

Holding out for a contract is far different than doing whatever it took to miss camp because you don't want to be there. And if I recall correctly, he did show up for training camp in Philly. He skipped the minicamps. And prior to his final year or so in SF, I haven't found a thing which said he missed alot of time in training camp.

I guess what I'm confused by what you're saying. Other than for legitimate injuries and contractual issues, where have you read that TO is known for avoiding camps?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Holding out for a contract is far different than doing whatever it took to miss camp because you don't want to be there. And if I recall correctly, he did show up for training camp in Philly. He skipped the minicamps. And prior to his final year or so in SF, I haven't found a thing which said he missed alot of time in training camp.

I guess what I'm confused by what you're saying. Other than for legitimate injuries and contractual issues, where have you read that TO is known for avoiding camps?

I don't think TO is using his dissatisfaction w/ his organization or contract as a way to skip out on TC

not attending TC due to a contract squabble is just a tactic used by players to get what they want and see that their demands are met

 

[Alexander]

Seeing Glenn getting a minor scope really made me think of the difference between Parcells and Phillips and I'm as happy as I can be.

I think everyone will admit that Parcells hated when a player missed practice and used every intimidation trick in his book to get that player back on the field. We saw Owens come back too soon from a hamstring last camp and reinjure himself. We saw Henry hobble through the last half of the year.

Phillips seems to want people to play at 100%. We've seen Owens sit out a day for "tired legs" and the Glenn situation. I really believe that Glenn doesn't get his knee done if Parcells was still here. A week off then a gimpy Glenn for the entire year.

Phillips' Stanback comments really have me thinking this also. He said something about a potential starter someday. Positive reinforcement knowing that it's a long camp and he'll get his shot when he's ready. I can hear a Parcells' PC about Stanback; "We won't know anything about him until he practices and it's hard to keep someone we don't know about".

I don't know how bad Burnett's concussion is but I'll bet that he doesn't see the practice field for awhile. Does anyone doubt that he'd already be back if Parcells was still in Dallas? Given the recent press about concussions and retired players, I think everyone would agree that safe is better than sorry.

It's a long camp and a long year so I'm willing to go on record right now that Dallas will be better than 2-3 after Thanksgiving this season.

There is a balance that has to be maintained. You don't want to play obviously injured players. Coach Parcells' culture made that happen. But sometimes, due to circumstance or necessity, that does have to occur.

Football is a game of pain.

And if you want to be great, you have to play through it.

What if Emmitt Smith had not played through his separated shoulder? What if Coach Johnson had decided it was better to save him for a wildcard game rather than get his best player back out there and win the division title?

The whole factor is consistency.

If this is just a training camp issue, that is not a big problem.

If they are good to go in terms of their understanding or your evaluation needs, why bother at this stage?

But if we see things like this where our injury list gets more than a handful of players long, there is a problem.