Peppers & Cowboys... Good Match?

[jobberone]

Adding Peppers to the front seven has to make us better. I don't see how you can argue otherwise. The real questions about adding him are will he add enough to put the front seven over the top. A dominating pass rush covers a lot of errors in the secondary and puts an inordinate amount of pressure on an offense, the QB, and creates turnovers and loss of yardage.

The other side of the equation is the cost worth it. Part of that process is deciding where to allocate resources to the team overall not just the front seven. Here I see a need to balance an overwhelming rush against weak depth on the OL, questions at WR (this is probably minor although I could argue otherwise), lack of a 2-technique NT (proven one), pass coverage by the LBs and DBs, and run coverage by the secondary esp the safeties.

Really only the staff and FO can determine these questions as we can only relatively do educated guesses here. My personal thoughts run along Hos's ideas. He's too expensive IMO.

I don't see his cost being players or picks as much as a signing bonus and guaranteed money which will be demanded to land him. Not saying players and picks won't be involved but they will not be excessive IMO and won't involve a first and possibly even a 2nd. It's all about the money.

I do wish someone would advise us as to the costs of acquiring players now with the possibility of an uncapped year coming up.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I do have this one question. Everyone keeps saying...Oh he's not as fluid and people would be just dying to lock him up one on one with a TE or a RB.

Well, folks, don't you think they're just dying to get Ellis or Spencer locked up one on one with a TE or RB all the same?

I don't imagine that sort of thing is factored in cause there is a good chance he'll be as good, or better, at covering than those two. It's not like if we got him we'd be giving up a guy at that position that teams were afraid to throw at.


There are many factors for why he won't be here but I don't the worry of him being isolated on Brian Westbrook is one of them. I mean, really, what linebacker in the game would a team feel overly confident about having them try to cover Brian Westbrook?

I'll bet there probably isn't a linebacker in the league that a team would be like, "Yeah I can't wait to lock him up on Westbrook."

 

[jobberone]

Some here are underestimating Peppers. He would be a perfect player for Wade's defense. And to say he's not fluid enough or dynamic enough is really laughable. He's nearly the equal of Ware. And he's stronger albeit not as fast as Ware. He can cover as well if not better than Ware.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Some here are underestimating Peppers. He would be a perfect player for Wade's defense. And to say he's not fluid enough or dynamic enough is really laughable. He's nearly the equal of Ware. And he's stronger albeit not as fast as Ware. He can cover as well if not better than Ware.

What do you base this coverage skill on? Did he cover a lot from the DE spot in Carolina?

 

[KingintheNorth]

Peppers is my favorite non-Dallas player but we simply can't overpay to acquire him. Jerry is known for overpaying. Bad combination.

If Carolina is willing to give him to NE for a 2nd round as rumored would they take a 3rd and Spencer? Would you (Cowboy fans) do that trade?

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I might do it for a 3rd and Spencer but there is no way that they'd take that deal and there is no way that they're actually going to deal him to New England for a 2nd.

 

[jobberone]

What do you base this coverage skill on? Did he cover a lot from the DE spot in Carolina?

Not a great deal but I've seen him drop back into coverage and create enough problems to say this. Just watch the guy. He clogs lanes, covers well, and creates turnovers more than Ware does. Surely I could be wrong but I do feel pretty strongly about it. And I'm not saying Ware does poorly here either. And Peppers does one thing Ware doesn't do nearly as well. He can play a true DE in rotation on passing downs. That would allow for Ware, Peppers, Ellis and Spencer on the field at the same time.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Not a great deal but I've seen him drop back into coverage and create enough problems to say this. Just watch the guy. He clogs lanes, covers well, and creates turnovers more than Ware does. Surely I could be wrong but I do feel pretty strongly about it. And I'm not saying Ware does poorly here either. And Peppers does one thing Ware doesn't do nearly as well. He can play a true DE in rotation on passing downs. That would allow for Ware, Peppers, Ellis and Spencer on the field at the same time.

Interesting lineup possibility there except that if you got Peppers there is honestly no way, at all, that Ellis and Spencer are both still here with him. At least one of those two would be gone (Obviously Ellis).

 

[wileedog]

I might do it for a 3rd and Spencer but there is no way that they'd take that deal and there is no way that they're actually going to deal him to New England for a 2nd.

They can't keep him though. $16M in cap space for a guy who will probably hold out if they don't trade him means they might even have trouble signing their rookies.

Unless a couple of teams get into a bidding war and outsmart themselves, this is not going to be a 'fair' deal, its going to be whatever the best Carolina can get for him, instead of losing him for nothing.

And depending on what they think of their depth, getting Ellis or Spencer to step right in and replace at lease some of Peppers production for a year might sound better to them than a 3rd vs. a 2nd draft pick, where they may not find someone ready to step in right away.

Again, not sure we should be involved anyway, but you don't know what Carolina considers 'fair' considering they could potentially get zip if no one bites at all. There are only 4 teams even on Peppers list, so its not like its even open bidding across the league.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I might do it for a 3rd and Spencer but there is no way that they'd take that deal and there is no way that they're actually going to deal him to New England for a 2nd.

Not I. I think Spencer is better than that, and he is also younger. I would have to think about Spencer for Peppers straight up. Peppers will enter the wrong side of 30 next season. Anthony Spencer is only 25 right now, when Peppers begins his decline, Spencer will be hitting his prime.

 

[jobberone]

Interesting lineup possibility there except that if you got Peppers there is honestly no way, at all, that Ellis and Spencer are both still here with him. At least one of those two would be gone (Obviously Ellis).

Why?? I wouldn't necessarily give up Ellis and no way I'd give up Spencer. Some people here really underestimate Ellis. Surely his shelf life is getting smaller but he can still play. Well enough to keep Spencer off the field still and that's not all injury related.

Obviously getting Peppers is not because you can get four pass rushers on the field at the same time. The point was Peppers is nearly as good as Ware and can play either DE on passing downs primarily but some otherwise as well which makes him more flexible of a player.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I'd rather improve the offensive line and secondary.

Let me second that emotion.


Our most glaring need was backup QB. Done deal.

Now, as you say, O line and secondary.
Those two are MUSTS.

 

[sonnyboy]

I like to keep an open mind to anything that could improve the team.

I seldom offer quick NOs.


But Peppers as a strongside 3-4 LB for Dallas just doesn't work.

We already have two players to man the position.

Older guy with relatively low cap number and a young 1st rd pk with perhaps more upside than we've seen.

We have other more pressing needs to allocate our picks and cap dollars to.

The only way I believe trading for and paying him would make sense is under the following senario.

Our team is confident that Spencer will be nothing more than a JAG and Carolina is willing to take Spencer in a trade for Peppers.

 

[Rack]

Who else could we give the Panthers? We don't have any first-round picks.

We? Who wrote this article/blog?

 

[Silverstar]

If we traded Ellis, Carp and Spears for Peppers, that might free up enough cap room to pull the trigger. In my mind, Ellis is already being replaced by Spencer and Carpenter by Stewart this year anyway. Hatcher was backing up Spears last year and is ready to start IMO. However, Ratliff could always move over to LDE and Anderson (6-4 315) or Siavii (6-5 320) could rotate at NT....wouldn't bother me at all considering their size.

The Panthers in exchange, would be getting three 1st round players and that should make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.....but if it doesn't.....adding Hamlin isn't out of the question with his huge cap hit this year. His cap hit is higher than Roy, Wittens' or Romo's in 2009....is Hamlin really all that at FS?

Draft Chip Vaughn in the 3rd and Sherrod Martin in the 4th, and I'm ok with trading Hamlin too. Just put Scandrick at FS in the base and in the nickel package, move him back to the slot and let Martin play FS. In 2010, release 1year Sensabaugh (just like Zach) and let Vaughn start at SS....simple plan IMO. Meanwhile, Peppers, Ware and Spencer are driving QB's nuts and we have a younger and ever improving secondary!


Greg Ellis - $6,250,000
Ken Hamlin - $5,805,000
Bobby Carpenter - $2,050,000
Marcus Spears - $1,655,000

2009 cap hit = 15,760,000


A Peppers deal can be done in Dallas, but youth must be served through the draft.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Greg Ellis - $6,250,000
Ken Hamlin - $5,805,000
Bobby Carpenter - $2,050,000
Marcus Spears - $1,655,000

2009 cap hit = 15,760,000


A Peppers deal can be done in Dallas, but youth must be served through the draft.

Three starting calibre players plus a backup for one starter? That almost sounds like the Cowboys / Vikings Herschel Walker trade except we are on the getting screwed end this time.

No way I make that trade. WAY to much talent given up. Football is a team game. One player cannot replace 3 on the field players. Backups, maybe, but not three starting or high snap players.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Not to mention that Hamlins cap hit will be much larger if you cut or trade him since you're then going to have to eat every bit of whats left from his signing bonus, that was to be spread out over a handful of seasons, all in this years cap.

 

[links18]

I'd rather improve the offensive line and secondary.

You mean we still haven't fixed the secondary? Weren't we incredibly stacked there heading into last season? Who wants to perform a post-mortem on the secondary?

 

[Silverstar]

Three starting calibre players plus a backup for one starter? That almost sounds like the Cowboys / Vikings Herschel Walker trade except we are on the getting screwed end this time.

No way I make that trade. WAY to much talent given up. Football is a team game. One player cannot replace 3 on the field players. Backups, maybe, but not three starting or high snap players.

Peppers is not replacing three starting players.

LB Julius Peppers > Greg Ellis
LB Matt Stewart > Bobby Carpenter
DE Jay Ratliff/Jason Hatcher/Stephen Bowen > Marcus Spears
NT Junior Siavii/Tim Anderson > Jay Ratliff or not
FS Orlando Scandrick > Ken Hamlin

Add 5 draft picks on defense..at least.

Does that help?

 

[Fletch]

I don't see Pepp as a need here. Anthony Spencer, IMO, is going to have somewhat of a breakout year in '09. He's got everything we need as a starter at SOLB. I want to see what he can do healthy and with plenty of snaps.

I agree.