Peter King's tribute to Rick Gosselin's behind the scenes HOF work

[WoodysGirl]

Stat of the Week​

I want to pay tribute this morning to Rick Gosselin, the Dallas Morning News columnist and longtime member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Many of you do not know Rick. He's a quiet worker bee of a writer who loves pro football and works tirelessly to try to make sure the Hall elects the right members. Any of the other selectors would tell you the same thing: He's an invaluable piece of the Hall of Fame electoral puzzle.​

A few years ago, Rick began stressing to the electorate that the Hall was trending to the offensive side too much in a game, in his eyes, that should be closer to equal in immortals. He produced stats that said of all the Hall of Famers who played one side of the ball exclusively, many more offensive players than defensive players had been enshrined. And so slowly, over the last few years, the committee has seemed to keep Gosselin's advice in the back of its collective mind as the classes have been selected.​

I say "has seemed'' because I've never interviewed fellow selectors about their defense-versus-offense leanings. But the statistics tell the story over the last 12 years, separated into six-year periods:​

[Click link for table]​

"Others'' include coaches and other contributors, like owners.

There are still 51.7 percent exclusively offensive players in the Hall, versus 34 percent defenders (with the remaining 15 percent being contributors or two-way players), so there is still a ways to go to see a Hall of Fame not so lopsided toward the offensive side.​

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...ing-monday-morning-quarterback/#ixzz2Ma8Bh4PI​

​

 

[jobberone]

Interesting read. Thanks for posting.

 

[burmafrd]

Interesting read. Thanks for posting.

Burger King is maddening.

Now and then he really hits it dead on

Others he misses by a mile

 

[percyhoward]

Gosselin did a chat recently on the subject of the Hall of Fame.

full chat

Rick can you explain how there is not any discussion of Chuck Howley for the HOF? His numbers and career were outstanding, much better than David Robinson. No disrespect to him but Chuck is more than deserving.

The Green Bay folks will tell you Dave Robinson was more deserving. The Hall of Fame selection committee picks the all-decade team – and this committee selected Robinson to the 1960s all-decade team, not Howley. That serves as a milepost in the selection process.


Two huge problems with that answer.

One is, there are many Hall of Famers who were never on an All-Decade Team. There are in fact, Hall of Fame linebackers with less impressive credentials than Howley's who never made an All-Decade Team. Rickey Jackson, anyone?

The other reason is, making the All-Decade Team is only a "milepost in the selection process" for some players, and not others. Ralph Neely, Cliff Harris, and Drew Pearson all made an All-Decade team. Why wasn't that a "milepost" for them the way Gosselin says it was a "milepost" for Dave Robinson? Especially given the fact that Robinson made 1st team All-Pro only once, and each one of those Cowboys did it three times.

 

[pancakeman]

Yeah, that's really not a very satisfying answer.

 

[muck4doo]

Woody never made me many Fantasy Football points.

 

[percyhoward]

1. Not enough defensive players have been enshrined.
2. No safety has been enshrined since 1998.
3. Making an All-Decade Team is a milepost for HOF selection.

Just doing the math that Gosselin has laid out for us, I'd have to say Harris is overdue.

 

[xwalker]

I think Rick Gosselin is the president of NAMBLA.

 

[burmafrd]

Gosselin did a chat recently on the subject of the Hall of Fame.

full chat

Rick can you explain how there is not any discussion of Chuck Howley for the HOF? His numbers and career were outstanding, much better than David Robinson. No disrespect to him but Chuck is more than deserving.

The Green Bay folks will tell you Dave Robinson was more deserving. The Hall of Fame selection committee picks the all-decade team – and this committee selected Robinson to the 1960s all-decade team, not Howley. That serves as a milepost in the selection process.


Two huge problems with that answer.

One is, there are many Hall of Famers who were never on an All-Decade Team. There are in fact, Hall of Fame linebackers with less impressive credentials than Howley's who never made an All-Decade Team. Rickey Jackson, anyone?

The other reason is, making the All-Decade Team is only a "milepost in the selection process" for some players, and not others. Ralph Neely, Cliff Harris, and Drew Pearson all made an All-Decade team. Why wasn't that a "milepost" for them the way Gosselin says it was a "milepost" for Dave Robinson? Especially given the fact that Robinson made 1st team All-Pro only once, and each one of those Cowboys did it three times.

The All Decade Team is important as long as you are not talking about a Cowboy

 

[J-DOG]

Gosselin did a chat recently on the subject of the Hall of Fame.

full chat

Rick can you explain how there is not any discussion of Chuck Howley for the HOF? His numbers and career were outstanding, much better than David Robinson. No disrespect to him but Chuck is more than deserving.

The Green Bay folks will tell you Dave Robinson was more deserving. The Hall of Fame selection committee picks the all-decade team – and this committee selected Robinson to the 1960s all-decade team, not Howley. That serves as a milepost in the selection process.


Two huge problems with that answer.

One is, there are many Hall of Famers who were never on an All-Decade Team. There are in fact, Hall of Fame linebackers with less impressive credentials than Howley's who never made an All-Decade Team. Rickey Jackson, anyone?

The other reason is, making the All-Decade Team is only a "milepost in the selection process" for some players, and not others. Ralph Neely, Cliff Harris, and Drew Pearson all made an All-Decade team. Why wasn't that a "milepost" for them the way Gosselin says it was a "milepost" for Dave Robinson? Especially given the fact that Robinson made 1st team All-Pro only once, and each one of those Cowboys did it three times.

Excellent post.
Gosselin is good at writing about Football because he has cultivated a really extensive network of contacts all over the league. His opinions on the Cowboys have always come across as...can't find the right word...snooty. In my opinion Howley is much more deserving than Robinson to be in the Hall of Fame but I still think they both deserve to be in there. Howley's stats speak volumes and I think he was left off the all-decade team because of the dominance of the Packers. It is ironic that he quickly points out the all-decade team thing when Pearson is not in there but you do not hear Goose lobbying for him.
Sometimes these writers love to bask in there reputation as smart guys. Peter King, Gosselin and Costas quickly come to mind of guys who fit that category. They say things like they are facts but it really is just their opinion and most people just accept it as fact.

 

[BIGDen]

I think Rick Gosselin is the president of NAMBLA.

Me too. He is such a tool.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

Isn't the baseball HOF selection committee in the hundreds?

Think the NFL HOF should be expanded too.

 

[percyhoward]

It is ironic that he quickly points out the all-decade team thing when Pearson is not in there but you do not hear Goose lobbying for him.

The more I read from Gosselin, the more I get the impression that he is being very PC when discussing the selection committee and the process. Gosselin wrote a piece recently about Pearson, Branch, and Carmichael. He stopped short of saying they were deserving, but he did say they deserved to be discussed as finalists. None of them has ever been a finalist.

When Gosselin listed his 32 best senior candidates in 2006, he had Howley as the #1 linebacker, with Dave Robinson at #8. And yet, he gave no hint of this in the chat. As a member of the senior committee who is based in Dallas, Gosselin has to know that it is perceived that he has completely dropped the ball in regard to Howley. How good does a presenter have to be when presenting a case for Howley? You just have to list his accomplishments. The committee may not be listening to his arguments, but Gosselin isn't about to go to extremes and resign from the committee. He gives me the impression of someone who is honored enough to keep his position but not strong enough to make good use of it.

It appears in the chat he is actually giving us the names of the linebackers currently being discussed in the senior pool. I counted all the major All-Pro 1st team selections in these players' careers, and Howley has the most of any of the players Gosselin mentioned as being "in the queue."

Chuck Howley 18
Robert Brazile 15
Randy Gradishar 11
Mike Curtis 7
Lee Roy Jordan 4
Tommy Nobis 3


I did the same count for the last eight linebackers who were enshrined. Again, even among Hall of Famers, Howley wins.

Chuck Howley 18
Dave Robinson 12
Dave Wilcox 12
Chris Doleman 10
Chris Hanburger 10
Derrick Thomas 10
Rickey Jackson 5
Andre Tippett 7
Harry Carson 2

Imagine the fetid, frothing goulash of incompetence, politics, and bias that has allowed all eight of those guys in ahead of Howley and Brazile.

If there's a trend that needs pointing out, it's the tendency toward more recent, less deserving inductees like Jackson and Tippett from teams that are perceived to be underrepresented. It may be that, for Gosselin, that's too pointed to mention.

 

[burmafrd]

The more I read from Gosselin, the more I get the impression that he is being very PC when discussing the selection committee and the process. Gosselin wrote a piece recently about Pearson, Branch, and Carmichael. He stopped short of saying they were deserving, but he did say they deserved to be discussed as finalists. None of them has ever been a finalist.

When Gosselin listed his 32 best senior candidates in 2006, he had Howley as the #1 linebacker, with Dave Robinson at #8. And yet, he gave no hint of this in the chat. As a member of the senior committee who is based in Dallas, Gosselin has to know that it is perceived that he has completely dropped the ball in regard to Howley. How good does a presenter have to be when presenting a case for Howley? You just have to list his accomplishments. The committee may not be listening to his arguments, but Gosselin isn't about to go to extremes and resign from the committee. He gives me the impression of someone who is honored enough to keep his position but not strong enough to make good use of it.

It appears in the chat he is actually giving us the names of the linebackers currently being discussed in the senior pool. I counted all the major All-Pro 1st team selections in these players' careers, and Howley has the most of any of the players Gosselin mentioned as being "in the queue."

Chuck Howley 18
Robert Brazile 15
Randy Gradishar 11
Mike Curtis 7
Lee Roy Jordan 4
Tommy Nobis 3


I did the same count for the last eight linebackers who were enshrined. Again, even among Hall of Famers, Howley wins.

Chuck Howley 18
Dave Robinson 12
Dave Wilcox 12
Chris Doleman 10
Chris Hanburger 10
Derrick Thomas 10
Rickey Jackson 5
Andre Tippett 7
Harry Carson 2

Imagine the fetid, frothing goulash of incompetence, politics, and bias that has allowed all eight of those guys in ahead of Howley and Brazile.

If there's a trend that needs pointing out, it's the tendency toward more recent, less deserving inductees like Jackson and Tippett from teams that are perceived to be underrepresented. It may be that, for Gosselin, that's too pointed to mention.

When Zimmerman quit he was very pointed about the PC crap that went on in those meetings.

 

[J-DOG]

The more I read from Gosselin, the more I get the impression that he is being very PC when discussing the selection committee and the process. Gosselin wrote a piece recently about Pearson, Branch, and Carmichael. He stopped short of saying they were deserving, but he did say they deserved to be discussed as finalists. None of them has ever been a finalist.

When Gosselin listed his 32 best senior candidates in 2006, he had Howley as the #1 linebacker, with Dave Robinson at #8. And yet, he gave no hint of this in the chat. As a member of the senior committee who is based in Dallas, Gosselin has to know that it is perceived that he has completely dropped the ball in regard to Howley. How good does a presenter have to be when presenting a case for Howley? You just have to list his accomplishments. The committee may not be listening to his arguments, but Gosselin isn't about to go to extremes and resign from the committee. He gives me the impression of someone who is honored enough to keep his position but not strong enough to make good use of it.

It appears in the chat he is actually giving us the names of the linebackers currently being discussed in the senior pool. I counted all the major All-Pro 1st team selections in these players' careers, and Howley has the most of any of the players Gosselin mentioned as being "in the queue."

Chuck Howley 18
Robert Brazile 15
Randy Gradishar 11
Mike Curtis 7
Lee Roy Jordan 4
Tommy Nobis 3


I did the same count for the last eight linebackers who were enshrined. Again, even among Hall of Famers, Howley wins.

Chuck Howley 18
Dave Robinson 12
Dave Wilcox 12
Chris Doleman 10
Chris Hanburger 10
Derrick Thomas 10
Rickey Jackson 5
Andre Tippett 7
Harry Carson 2

Imagine the fetid, frothing goulash of incompetence, politics, and bias that has allowed all eight of those guys in ahead of Howley and Brazile.

If there's a trend that needs pointing out, it's the tendency toward more recent, less deserving inductees like Jackson and Tippett from teams that are perceived to be underrepresented. It may be that, for Gosselin, that's too pointed to mention.

Agree again. When you go back and look at Howley's career it's really an eye-opener to just how deserving he is to be in the Hall of Fame. So well-decorated by during his career and then throw in the fact that when the games mattered most...Howley made huge plays and had great games.

 

[percyhoward]

It seems that the Dave Robinson who was just inducted into the Hall of Fame is the same as the "R. David Robinson, Sr." who is listed among the Board of Directors for...you guessed it, the Hall of Fame.

PFHOF Board of Trustees

Robinson's Wiki page