PFF has Conner Williams ranked 16th

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
41,077
Reaction score
41,060
PFF has Conner Williams ranked 16th best Guard. Each team has 2 starting Guards. So if we take out Martin then there are only 15 guards rated higher. He might not be so bad. He is a FA next year I think
No idea how good or bad he is. We fans have no clue.
 

Turk

Well-Known Member
Messages
685
Reaction score
935
Something else I credit him for. He’s given his all for the team and done everything that’s been asked of him from day one. He was an offensive tackle that the team shifted to guard. And I don’t remember hearing a single complaint from him about the move

Through struggles and injuries, he’s given his best. And he’s admirably represented the organization both on and off the field.

That counts for a lot too.
not saying he ain't a stand up guy giving his all. But to this point it is not enough on the field.
 

Turk

Well-Known Member
Messages
685
Reaction score
935
No idea how good or bad he is. We fans have no clue.
and what of all the mistakes the so called professional coaches have made over the years?

Sometimes the Mark 1 eyeball is more than enough to spot a turd. Not saying he is one; but this team has a history of paying its own a lot more than it should and anyone saying otherwise is a liar.
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,224
Reaction score
26,819
Cwill has been solid steady player, those knocking him because they believe all 5 positions should be PB or AP level have been spoiled by ours OL of the past..most OL around the league have more Cwill type players then big time players..the league itself is made up by far more solid to average plyers then stars..Stars are rare and élite the rest are needed to fill in voids an keep the Cap under control..

Cwill maybe hasn't eared BIG payday but OL like him get snatched up in minutes and will get 6-7mil easy per year..the better players are getting 10-20mil yes Texans played that tackle 20mil wow what mistake but it happens..

so when you say he hasn't eared 2nd deal he will get one here or somewhere else and get 6-7 mil pre year..

he snot bad player at all , solid and steady and well hes for sure starter..

McGovern has been nice in spot duty but when you play 60-70 snaps game you will get exposed and we wont know if hes even as good as Cwill when you have to play 100% of the snaps for 17 games..

thats when you see players warts..

Not saying we need to sign him but tie hate as usual is overblown

we have seen now 4 OL Coaches over 2 staffs all keep Cwill as a starting LG

yet fans here believe they are the experts and want him gone..

Odd the real experts have kept this guy as starter since hes ben in the league..
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,331
Reaction score
102,213
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
not saying he ain't a stand up guy giving his all. But to this point it is not enough on the field.

I don’t think I agree with that. While he was certainly the weakest link when this team had Pro Bowlers across the board, times have changed. And so has Connor Williams. He’s improved every year and gotten stronger and more sound in his technique. Does he still lose battles from time to time? Sure, most offensive linemen do.

But he’s certainly cut down on those times, and on a mess of a line last year, he was actually a top performer.

He will probably take another step up this year and get well paid by another team after this season
 

charron

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,291
Reaction score
13,655
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
He isn't elite but he's a solid Guard. He is better at pass protection than run blocking and many of us prefer the bigger meaner run dominant guard types. Guys like him deserve a 2nd contract just not here unless he is super cheap. My only issue with not keeping him is he was the only OL to play all 16 games last year. Can mcGovern stay healthy? We probably need to draft another G/C on day 2 of the draft next year just in case.
 

Echo9

Erik_H
Messages
3,757
Reaction score
1,774
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Sign the elite players
Replace the good players when they get expensive
That’s the only way to can afford the Martin types
You can’t have every oline guy on a second contract
I have to disagree with this sentiment. A second contract does not mean an exhorbitant contract. You need some players to be "good enough" to get a second mid-range contract. It would be nice to always try to swing for the fences and get pro bowlers at every position. But you can't always gamble that you'll even be able to replace an average to good player with an unproven rookie. If he has an opportunity to get overpaid, I can understand letting him go, but there's room for a reasonable contract in the middle.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,428
Reaction score
15,605
Connor Williams is a good OG. He's likely in fact to be gone because he prices himself out of Dallas not because he is a bum.
He does get bullied on rare occasions but he's a plus OG in space and cleaned up a ton technically to where he wins almost every 1v1 battle Aaron Donald aside.
He handled Fletcher Cox last year for instance.

But I don't think Dallas has any intention of paying him.
They'll let one of the young guys win the spot then recoup the comp pick after he gets paid.

Unless they do decide Tyron has to move on and move Zack to OT.
If that happened they may be inclined to keep a proven, vet OG in CWill next to a new LT(tho it may be La'el Collins at LT).
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,428
Reaction score
15,605
1 thing to keep in mind is OL tend to reach their peak later than most positions.
They are technique and strength based. Both things that max out closer to 30 than 20 whereas speed positions are the opposite.
I do think CWill could end up a 3-4x Pro Bowler.

But he's probably looking ta 10M AAV. Say 4 years 40M with 15M GTD.
 

Mr_437

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,910
Reaction score
18,817
I think CWILL is really young and can get better over more time. So much invested in him already. Interesting to see if they just let him go.
 

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
41,077
Reaction score
41,060
and what of all the mistakes the so called professional coaches have made over the years?

Sometimes the Mark 1 eyeball is more than enough to spot a turd. Not saying he is one; but this team has a history of paying its own a lot more than it should and anyone saying otherwise is a liar.
Chill Karen. You’ll have a stroke.
 

Redball Express

All Aboard!!!
Messages
16,253
Reaction score
12,758
Something else I credit him for. He’s given his all for the team and done everything that’s been asked of him from day one. He was an offensive tackle that the team shifted to guard. And I don’t remember hearing a single complaint from him about the move

Through struggles and injuries, he’s given his best. And he’s admirably represented the organization both on and off the field.

That counts for a lot too.
Well..we have been spoiled over recent times with our OL. Of course the popular thing is to put players down becuz they are not being Pro Bowl quality. It's sad to see. Real fans know it takes time to develop in this league. He is a keeper IMO. We need players like him.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
56,925
Reaction score
64,351
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
PFF has Conner Williams ranked 16th best Guard. Each team has 2 starting Guards. So if we take out Martin then there are only 15 guards rated higher. He might not be so bad. He is a FA next year I think

Connor Williams has been a solid NFL player.

Fans that claim he sucks don't study the game footage.

Fans loved it when La'el played OG because he would have a few highlight plays over-powering defenders; however...
- Fans did see the huge number of mistakes that he made because that requires spending time reviewing game footage.

CW is the opposite of La'el. CW is terrific in the mental and developed skill aspect of playing OG in the NFL.
- He is excellent at picking up and passing off stunting/blitzing pass rushers.
- He is excellent at run blocking on the 2nd level which requires precision angles and timing to be most effective.
- Last season CW was very focused on helping the LT which made his job more difficult.
- CW fared well against Aaron Donald as a rookie in the playoff game against the Rams. CW's best attribute is quickness. He has Left Tackle type foot quickness & agility.

Downside:
- CW is obviously not an over-powering type of OG; however, the Rams made it to the Super Bowl a couple of years ago with an entire OL of those types of guys.
- CW averages about 1 play per game where a defender catches him off-balance and makes him look silly. Fans judge him on those types of plays, not the other 70 snaps per game.

Zone Run blocking has taken over the NFL in recent years and it puts a premium on precision over raw power.
 

75boyz

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,963
Reaction score
9,600
I have to disagree with this sentiment. A second contract does not mean an exhorbitant contract. You need some players to be "good enough" to get a second mid-range contract. It would be nice to always try to swing for the fences and get pro bowlers at every position. But you can't always gamble that you'll even be able to replace an average to good player with an unproven rookie. If he has an opportunity to get overpaid, I can understand letting him go, but there's room for a reasonable contract in the middle.

Excellent point. It's where general managers/ contract writers hafta know when to let the specific caliber of player go. It's a fine line.

For example, Brown and Lewis's CB contracts are not "totally" unreasonable for the contributions they make to the defense. So this Front office does know how to negotiate a mid level contract with a mid level range player.

But what they are not good at is proper and "consistent player evaluation of their own" when first contracts expire. Paying good to average(or below) at elite levels is a huge contributor to this team's continued lack of success.
There are many of these type contracts that prevent this team from ever moving forward because the same contract mistakes keep being made. The names are well known.
It is this ability to know your own players and knowing when to let them go, that separates the better GMs from the not so good.

Jerry/Steven are not so good.

jmo
 

Twin928

Well-Known Member
Messages
564
Reaction score
364
PFF has Conner Williams ranked 16th best Guard. Each team has 2 starting Guards. So if we take out Martin then there are only 15 guards rated higher. He might not be so bad. He is a FA next year I think
Yea still think that’s to high for him he been the weak link since snap one
 

conner01

Well-Known Member
Messages
27,889
Reaction score
25,808
I have to disagree with this sentiment. A second contract does not mean an exhorbitant contract. You need some players to be "good enough" to get a second mid-range contract. It would be nice to always try to swing for the fences and get pro bowlers at every position. But you can't always gamble that you'll even be able to replace an average to good player with an unproven rookie. If he has an opportunity to get overpaid, I can understand letting him go, but there's room for a reasonable contract in the middle.
He will be much more expensive
That’s the nature of a starter quality players second contract
 

plasticman

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,395
Reaction score
15,915
When Connor was drafted, the Cowboy's starting offensive line included three 1st team All Pros.

Think about that....

A 1st team All Pro is the player considered the best at his position in the league. This means the Cowboys had three offensive linemen who were considered the best at their position...in the league.

And then there was La'el Collins, a player that was considered a top ten pick had it not been for the circumstances we are all aware of. It was noted by many analysts that, prior to 2020, he was on the verge of playing at a Pro Bowl level.

So in 2018, The Cowboys draft Connor Williams who, as a rookie, is set to back up Joe Looney, who had previous experience as a starting LG for the Cowboys.

Those plans change when we learn about Frederick's medical issue and inability to play the season. Looney is switched to center and a rookie starts on a O-line squad considered elite in this league. All eyes are on him.

Its only natural for fans look at Connor and compare his ability with his teammates. It's even fair to admit he is the line's weakest link. However, who wouldn't be? Compared to previous lineups, he would have to be the second coming of Larry Allen's rookie season to be considered worthy of comparison

Now flash to the last part of the 2020 season. Fredericks is gone, then La'el is out. Tyron lasts 2 starts. Even Martin's streak is broken after ten starts.

It gets worse. The backup tackle, Cam Erving, started the season on injured reserve, ended the season on injured reserve. Joe Looney goes down after four games and doesn't return for another four games. he is replaced in the lineup by rookie 4th round draft pick Tyler Biadasz.

In the end, the starters are Brandon Knight, Terrence Steele, Connor McGovern, Joe Looney and Connor Williams who go on a three game winning streak before losing to the Giants to end the season.

Connor Williams was the only offensive player for the Cowboys to start every regular season game in 2020. The guy who was the weak link for the previous two seasons was the anchor for the Cowboys O-line in 2020.

Now he is the 16th ranked guard in a league of 64 starting guards. That's top 25%.

This just in....Connor Williams does not suck. However, understand, not sucking doesn't mean All Pro, which was the level he was being compared to by some Cowboy fans.
 

McKDaddy

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,224
Reaction score
8,425
We really need someone to give a fair criticism on Conner Williams. Its clear PFF grades favor him. Fans consistently want to replace him. I'm sure somewhere in the middle is fair. I personally thought he looked ok last year.

PFF is very confusing. They do some really good work on some things and seem to really miss the boat on others. He is a long way from being the 16th best Guard.
He is an OK Guard. The kind you should view as a low end starter, upgradeable at your earliest convenience.
Problem is his flaw\weakness is one most every team can take advantage of. He lacks brute strength to hold his ground even when his technique is good. Slightly out of position and he's beaten quickly or commits the penalty. When a team really needs to get pressure, they go after him.
McGovern was anchoring and holding his ground pretty well last year. So, Williams may be the 3rd best guard on this team. If that's the case, use him as swing tackle & jumbo packages where his movement skills could make him an effective lead blocker.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Sign the elite players
Replace the good players when they get expensive
That’s the only way to can afford the Martin types
You can’t have every oline guy on a second contract

You can, and I think you should if you can. OL is not like other position groups. It takes more time together to play well in that position group. That means that the more games you can keep your starting 5 together, the better they should be. Pulling and replacing players along the OL will continue to be a problem. They will never become as good as they can be if you take this approach. I am against this approach, but I do understand the idea that not every player along the OL needs to be the highest paid at their position.
 
Top