PFF ranks DP 88th best player in NFL, 8th best qb

[Toruk_Makto]

Isn't as good as his supporters say he is? How good do they say?

Better than Romo good.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Justifying Dak's production and his value/worth/ranking/ability based on his supporting cast is silly and a standard other rookie QBs are not held to.

Ben Roethlisberger has never been held to such criticism. His 2004 OL had 3 Pro Bowlers with 2 of them being All Pro. In addition had a Pro Bowler at WR. At Running Back he had Duce Staley and Jerome Bettis. Combined they had 1771 yds rushing and 14 TDs. And then the defense! He had the luxury of having 4 Pro Bowlers (1 All Pro).

Actually that's not true at all. Nobody was putting Big Ben among the best QBs in football after his rookie year. They acknowledged he had a great defense and running game that protected him. People acknowledged he wasn't asked to throw a ton. He's then gone out and got it done year after year after. That's why he has earned all the money he has and is a likely Hall of Famer and considered among the best qbs in football. It didn't happen for him year 1 like it largely has happened year 1 for Dak.

It's completely fair to consider the context of Dak's success given his limitations as a young player.

The reverse is also fair. Young signal callers like Goff and Wentz get the benefit of the doubt given their lack of good offensive pieces around them. But eventually they will have to get it done just like Dak will have to continue to improve and get it done. Football is a meritocracy.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Better than Romo good.

Well......he it's debatable at the very least. You don't know what Romo is but we do know what Dak has shown.

 

[DIAF]

I got no problem with him being ranked the 8th best QB in the NFL. That's about where he belongs i think, in the 8-12 range for a variety of reasons. Let's see him take another step forwards in 2017.

 

[viman96]

Actually that's not true at all. Nobody was putting Big Ben among the best QBs in football after his rookie year. They acknowledged he had a great defense and running game that protected him. People acknowledged he wasn't asked to throw a ton. He's then gone out and got it done year after year after. That's why he has earned all the money he has and is a likely Hall of Famer and considered among the best qbs in football. It didn't happen for him year 1 like it largely has happened year 1 for Dak.

It's completely fair to consider the context of Dak's success given his limitations as a young player.

The reverse is also fair. Young signal callers like Goff and Wentz get the benefit of the doubt given their lack of good offensive pieces around them. But eventually they will have to get it done just like Dak will have to continue to improve and get it done. Football is a meritocracy.

There were no caveats with Ben. The media said how great he was. I do not recall countless talking heads justifying his rookie season based on his supporting cast like they do with Dak.

 

[plasticman]

The Cowboys have the best quarterback for them, a young , smart, competitive, proven winner who will learn faster and improve from this season.

It's not about the stats, it's about the primary goal of a starting quarterback, which is to direct the offense in scoring drives on a consistent basis and win the game. Everyone else can use QB ratings, which does not account for running, escaping sacks, creating plays that sustain drives, and leadership. I'll take wins which account for all of that.

The Cowboys have a top five QB for the next decade. Think on that awhile and the answer for Cowboys fans as to where Dak is ranked in the NFL prior to the 2017 season is "Who cares?"

 

[Toruk_Makto]

There were no caveats with Ben. The media said how great he was. I do not recall countless talking heads justifying his rookie season based on his supporting cast like they do with Dak.

This is not true.

And to prove it I used this magical thing called the internet. Look at what USA Today said about Big Ben following his, then record breaking, rookie season.

Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger set a rookie record by going 13-0 as the starter last year and faces pressure to do even better and get the Steelers into the Super Bowl. Pittsburgh helped Roethlisberger by averaging 38.6 rushes a game in 2004, more than five more than any other team. Defenses will be set up to stop the run more this season, and Roethlisberger will have to be more of a threat with his arm.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2005-08-03-sw-rankings-quarterbacks_x.htm

That certainly doesn't sound like "there were no caveats with Ben." Facts are inconvenient at times, eh?

 

[conner01]

PFF does sux
I don't rank rookies and vets against each other myself
Dak had a tremedous season for any qb, let alone a rookie but how he fits in the pecking order of NFL qb's can't be judged for a few years
If he can improve over last year in the coming year then you are not looking at a top 10 but more like top 5

 

[percyhoward]

There were no caveats with Ben. The media said how great he was. I do not recall countless talking heads justifying his rookie season based on his supporting cast like they do with Dak.

Rookie season, includes playoffs

200+ yard passing games
Prescott 13
Roethlisberger 4

Multi-INT games
Prescott 1
Roethlisberger 5

W-L when scoring 20 points or less
Prescott 1-3
Roethlisberger 7-1

Playoff passer rating
Roethlisberger 61.3
Prescott 103.2

 

[ThreeandOut]

I might actually watch Undisputed if they replaced the current hosts with these guys.

 

[Robbieac]

Rookie season, includes playoffs

200+ yard passing games
Prescott 13
Roethlisberger 4

Multi-INT games
Prescott 1
Roethlisberger 5

W-L when scoring 20 points or less
Prescott 1-3
Roethlisberger 7-1

Playoff passer rating
Roethlisberger 61.3
Prescott 103.2

Boom

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Rookie season, includes playoffs

200+ yard passing games
Prescott 13
Roethlisberger 4

Multi-INT games
Prescott 1
Roethlisberger 5

W-L when scoring 20 points or less
Prescott 1-3
Roethlisberger 7-1

Playoff passer rating
Roethlisberger 61.3
Prescott 103.2

He completely has remembered the conversation around Big Ben after his rookie season.

But to be fair comparing passing stats from 13 years ago isn't really fair.

 

[percyhoward]

But to be fair comparing passing stats from 13 years ago isn't really fair.

NFL rank
200+ yard passing games
Prescott 14th
Roethlisberger 28th

INT %
Prescott 2nd
Roethlisberger 25th

W-L when scoring league avg or less
Prescott 1-3
Roethlisberger 7-1

Playoff passer rating vs. NFL avg
Roethlisberger -19.6
Prescott +15.6

 

[Toruk_Makto]

NFL rank
200+ yard passing games
Prescott 14th
Roethlisberger 28th

INT %
Prescott 2nd
Roethlisberger 25th

W-L when scoring league avg or less
Prescott 1-3
Roethlisberger 7-1

Playoff passer rating vs. NFL avg
Roethlisberger -19.6
Prescott +15.6

Never been on the end of one of these. And I always appreciate the information. But not sure what you're trying to prove to me. I was firmly of the belief that Big Ben was not being praised after his rookie year as a top qb.

Prescott had a better rookie year across the board as you've shown....and I still don't believe he is a top qb at this time. But he's a young player. We all hope he grows into it. He did an incredible job of managing this team within the constraints put around him due to his limitations.

Specifically, I love his efficiency. Passing differential is my jam.

 

[percyhoward]

Not sure what you're trying to prove to me.

That the disparity isn't attributable to a difference in eras.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

That the disparity isn't attributable to a difference in eras.

I said it's not fair to really compare passing statistics today verses those from 13 years ago. I stand by that statement. I also stand by my assertion that Dak had a better rookie season than Big Ben did. I also stand by my assertion that Dak isn't a top QB at this moment.

It's also not really fair to compare absolute metrics like 200+ yard passing games when Dak threw it 200 more times this year than Big Ben did his rookie year. Nor is it fair to compare their playoff passer rating vs nfl differential on such minute sample sizes.

 

[perrykemp]

I said it's not fair to really compare passing statistics today verses those from 13 years ago. I stand by that statement. I also stand by my assertion that Dak had a better rookie season than Big Ben did. I also stand by my assertion that Dak isn't a top QB at this moment.

It's also not really fair to compare absolute metrics like 200+ yard passing games when Dak threw it 200 more times this year than Big Ben did his rookie year. Nor is it fair to compare their playoff passer rating vs nfl differential on such minute sample sizes.

Damn Toruk that's a LOT of assertions for a single post.

 

[JoeKing]

PFF is wrong. DP is way better than that.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Damn Toruk that's a LOT of assertions for a single post.

You know what they say about ASSertions....

 

[Ranching]

I said it's not fair to really compare passing statistics today verses those from 13 years ago. I stand by that statement. I also stand by my assertion that Dak had a better rookie season than Big Ben did. I also stand by my assertion that Dak isn't a top QB at this moment.

It's also not really fair to compare absolute metrics like 200+ yard passing games when Dak threw it 200 more times this year than Big Ben did his rookie year. Nor is it fair to compare their playoff passer rating vs nfl differential on such minute sample sizes.

The Guru has spoken. Close the thread.