News: PFT: Ezekiel Elliott has privately said that he's planning a training-camp holdout

Reid1boys

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Look at what the Steelers did to Bell.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/leveon-bell-12329/cash-earnings/


1.3 Million signing bonus [CHEAP]

Salary per season:
2013 405K
2014 495K
2015 687K
2016 853K
2017 12.1 Million

Who do you think got the better deal? The Steelers.

Zeke isn't going to let that happen to him.
bell was a 2nd rd pick who go tpaid what he was supposed to be paid. All of you complaining about these teams getting off cheap should be complainig about the players in the NFL that sold out the rookies to ensure the vets were making a larger piece of the pie. Those very FEW rookies that kick *** right out of the gate are getting screwed, but dont blame the teams, blame the NFLPA for fighting for that.
 

DuncanIso

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bell was a 2nd rd pick who go tpaid what he was supposed to be paid. All of you complaining about these teams getting off cheap should be complainig about the players in the NFL that sold out the rookies to ensure the vets were making a larger piece of the pie. Those very FEW rookies that kick *** right out of the gate are getting screwed, but dont blame the teams, blame the NFLPA for fighting for that.


3 Pro Bowls
2 All Pro seasons

Steelers used him up. Dirt cheap.

Zeke don't play that game.
 

gjkoeppen

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Not honoring a contract is standard business practice for professional athletes. It's a negotiating tactic, not some barometer of morality. That's the part you don't want to acknowledge.

Oh I see. Because some professional athletes act like little kids and don't think honoring a signed contract isn't a sign of the lack of character, we're all supposed to also take that childish stance of not honoring contracts. 99% of players do honor their contracts. They may make a determination that when their contract is up there is no way they will sign with that club again, but they do honor their contracts. What do you think would happen if people outside of professional sports decided to just say the heck with their employment contracts and said they weren't coming back to work until their company agree to pay them more? That's right, as soon as they stopped coming to work it becomes grounds to void that contract and they get fired. Why, because people are expected to honor contracts that they sign.
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ABQCOWBOY

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bell was a 2nd rd pick who go tpaid what he was supposed to be paid. All of you complaining about these teams getting off cheap should be complainig about the players in the NFL that sold out the rookies to ensure the vets were making a larger piece of the pie. Those very FEW rookies that kick *** right out of the gate are getting screwed, but dont blame the teams, blame the NFLPA for fighting for that.

Why should we be complaining about players who have put in their time and have seniority on these younger guys? Why in the world should anybody do that? I don't understand

But I do agree with you, it was the NFLPA's decision. I agree with you there.
 

Future

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Oh I see. Because some professional athletes act like little kids and don't think honoring a signed contract isn't a sign of the lack of character, we're all supposed to also take that childish stance of not honoring contracts. 99% of players do honor their contracts. They may make a determination that when their contract is up there is no way they will sign with that club again, but they do honor their contracts. What do you think would happen if people outside of professional sports decided to just say the heck with their employment contracts and said they weren't coming back to work until their company agree to pay them more? That's right, as soon as they stopped coming to work it becomes grounds to void that contract and they get fired. Why, because people are expected to honor contracts that they sign.
Yea, but none of this matters. Most people are immediately to their employers, and most people don't have "contracts." Putting elite professional athletes into similar context as you and I is a laughable exercise.
 

Reid1boys

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Yea, but none of this matters. Most people are immediately to their employers, and most people don't have "contracts." Putting elite professional athletes into similar context as you and I is a laughable exercise.
pro sports isnot the real world. never understand why people try to compare mechanic down the road with a pro athlete.
 

Reid1boys

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Why should we be complaining about players who have put in their time and have seniority on these younger guys? Why in the world should anybody do that? I don't understand

But I do agree with you, it was the NFLPA's decision. I agree with you there.

im not complaining. i dont care who gets what.... im just saying that people complaining about rookies that play great and are way underpaid cant have it both ways.....rookies have rookie deals.... it doesnt say 4 year deal with a 5th year option......... unless the rookie kicks arse. in that case, teams must tear up the original deal after 2-3 years and redo that rookie deal.
 

gjkoeppen

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Look at the entry for Aug 6, 2019. This is the official NFL Operations page. It appears if they don't show up for fall camp at that date, it doesn't matter if they are on the active/inactive/PUP list for a minimum of 6 games. The 6 games only seems to apply to those players, under contract, who show up at the designated camp date each league year (this being Aug 6th this year).

https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2019-20-important-nfl-dates/


It appears to have been changed for this season then because in prior years as long as a player under contract reported by week 10 they got that season as an accrued season.
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gjkoeppen

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The Cowboys gave Dak a proven performance bonus in his contract, which they did not have to do. He will earn an additional 2 mil this upcoming season, because of that kicker.

In terms of Zeke, look at what Fournette got paid, who is also a RB. Look at the difference in average salary from Cooper (5.665 Mil), Zeke (6.24 Mil) and Fournette (6.79 Mil). The bump in salary between Cooper and Zeke and Zeke and Fournette is greater for Zeke then for Fournette. I'm not wrong in that Zeke received more in compensation, from a percentage bases.

First when using examples don't try to compare apples to oranges. Cooper was drafted in 2015, Fournette was drafted in 2017, Elliott was drafted in 2016. That whole argument about those 3 is USELESS. Three different draft years with THREE different amounts in the cap for the rookie wage scale.

Then your "performance bonus" for Prescott. The only place that exists is in your head. If you look at his contract and what's written above it you will CLEARLY see that Prescott's BASE salary for 2019 is 2.025 mil. Any bonus money IS NOT considered BASE pay. BONUS money is above and beyond BASE pay.
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gjkoeppen

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Well, normally it.goes doesnt fit here. He already got 6 the first time.

And even if he gets 10. Thats a risk. And that was and is my point. He did not prove anything until now that he is able to handle his off the field issues.

He is extremely lucky he didn't get suspended for his actions in Vegas. There were quit a few on the sports shows who thought he would get a suspension under protecting the shield crap.
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gjkoeppen

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Yea, but none of this matters. Most people are immediately to their employers, and most people don't have "contracts." Putting elite professional athletes into similar context as you and I is a laughable exercise.

First off what is "Most people are immediately to their employers"? Second, Many mid-level management and upper management people do have employment contracts and if they did what pro athletes did they'd get fired. Lastly, society has really gotten bad if they think a certain class of people don't have to honor binding contracts. Those that have gone to law school weren't taught there are two kinds of binding contracts, those that every day people sign and those that special people sign. It used to be that people were raised and taught that your word is of the most important things you have but I guess that isn't taught by parents anymore.
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TwoDeep3

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Why should we be complaining about players who have put in their time and have seniority on these younger guys? Why in the world should anybody do that? I don't understand

But I do agree with you, it was the NFLPA's decision. I agree with you there.


Which is more important to a team?

A skill player that scores points

A non-skill player that supports scoring points.
 

Reid1boys

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First off what is "Most people are immediately to their employers"? Second, Many mid-level management and upper management people do have employment contracts and if they did what pro athletes did they'd get fired. Lastly, society has really gotten bad if they think a certain class of people don't have to honor binding contracts. Those that have gone to law school weren't taught there are two kinds of binding contracts, those that every day people sign and those that special people sign. It used to be that people were raised and taught that your word is of the most important things you have but I guess that isn't taught by parents anymore.
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Why is it that us individual Joes are supposed to live the high moral ground, yet businesses routinely walk away from deals, file bankruptcy, and then restart the business under a different name and that is ok. Who go ta bailout from the govt? Big business, not little guy joe. I didnt see little guy Joe getting billions of dollars to stay in their homes. My wife is in middle management for a billion dollar publicly traded corporation. She has no contract and has never had a contract and I am not aware of anyone in her business that has one.

I am a teacher, and I somewhate have a contract for th eyear, but I could walk from that since I could be replaced by a qualified teacher fairly quickly.
 

Future

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First off what is "Most people are immediately to their employers"? Second, Many mid-level management and upper management people do have employment contracts and if they did what pro athletes did they'd get fired. Lastly, society has really gotten bad if they think a certain class of people don't have to honor binding contracts. Those that have gone to law school weren't taught there are two kinds of binding contracts, those that every day people sign and those that special people sign. It used to be that people were raised and taught that your word is of the most important things you have but I guess that isn't taught by parents anymore.
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Immediately replaceable, sorry.

Fired because they are immediately replaceable lol. You can't just let Zeke go.

Your interpretation of "society getting bad" is irrelevant.

A pro athlete holding out for a new contract that pays them market rate is a business negotiation tactic. It is not a representation of our culture, a lack of morality, society's decline, or anything else fans want to whine about.
 

Jake

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gjkoeppen

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Why is it that us individual Joes are supposed to live the high moral ground, yet businesses routinely walk away from deals, file bankruptcy, and then restart the business under a different name and that is ok. Who go ta bailout from the govt? Big business, not little guy joe. I didnt see little guy Joe getting billions of dollars to stay in their homes. My wife is in middle management for a billion dollar publicly traded corporation. She has no contract and has never had a contract and I am not aware of anyone in her business that has one.

I am a teacher, and I somewhate have a contract for th eyear, but I could walk from that since I could be replaced by a qualified teacher fairly quickly.

So if a business that pays thier employees up unitl as hard as they tried end up having to file bankruptcy and you want to equate that to a person not honoring a binding contract? In most states employees who are not under employee contracts can be fire or terminate at will for the slightest thing that breaks company policy or puts company in bad light with the public.

You're trying to use a SINGLE company that may not have employment contracts as the standard. I've work for 3 different companies where many of the mid and upper management people did have employment contracts.

I'll also point out about you saying the little guy Joe doesn't get anything if a business goes bankrupt but what's the first thing they do, they run to the unemployment office to start to collect money from the state.
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Jake

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Gotta say not a fan of the comparison to Emmett and 1993. Pretty sure if we were coming off a super bowl win I might feel differently.

That's been my issue with all of the "OMG, we gotta extend (insert player here)!" with one player after another.

Paying the 90s players was one thing because they had proven they could win a championship. This century we fall in love with guys, who we act like are irreplaceable, even though they haven't won anything.
 

John813

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3 Pro Bowls
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Steelers used him up. Dirt cheap.

Zeke don't play that game.

Oh please. They offered him a 5 year 70 mil deal. But he balked due to the fact the Steelers don't give out huge guarantees to just about any player. The Steelers didn't even give a big guarantee to Antonio Brown. they only got bent when they restructured him the year before they traded him.

Oh course the Steelers used him up. Why wouldn't you use the #1b most talented player on your team a lot? The contract he signed as a rookie was aalready set in stone the second he was drafted.
They were trying to get him signed long term but he wanted a vast sum of money those years, back when D. Freeman was getting 8mil per year. He wanted to blowup the RB market value and get paid more than receivers.
 

eromeopolk

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Zeke Elliott would burn many bridges down with the Jones family, Cowboy fans and NFL fans. I know he is not going to hold out now by not announcing it prior to.

Jerry Jones went to court and against the NFL Commish for Zeke.

After next year, he will announce his holdout.

Emmitt did it with class. He told Jerry, Dallas, the NFL, and the US after the 1992 season that he was not going to play without a contract that made him the highest paid RB in the NFL. Jerry should have signed him first (before Troy who had 2 years left). But Jerry got it done. If he was not an idiot off the field, Zeke and the Cowboys would be talking now.

If he chooses this with 2 years left on his contract, I would franchise tag him into oblivion (remember if you do not sign the franchise tag the team can tag you again as transition). He would just get in more off season trouble so why long term him with 2 years left on a contract.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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im not complaining. i dont care who gets what.... im just saying that people complaining about rookies that play great and are way underpaid cant have it both ways.....rookies have rookie deals.... it doesnt say 4 year deal with a 5th year option......... unless the rookie kicks arse. in that case, teams must tear up the original deal after 2-3 years and redo that rookie deal.

I understand your point. I mean, to me it's not as if these younger guys are really being taken advantage of though. I mean, lets assume you are a first round pick and you tear it up as a rookie. Are you out playing your contract? Possibly but the truth is that most of these rookies aren't out playing their contracts. Most of them are learning the Pro Game and probably being over paid for what they do. If you are in the very small minority, like Zeke perhaps, you also have to understand that there are a lot of guys who are under paid who are also towing the line for you. As example, I would say that Joe Looney making 825K as the starting Center on a Division Champion is severely under paid but hey, that's the contract he had. 'If Looney doesn't play well last year, Zeke never comes close to leading the league in Rushing and Dak doesn't have the year he had etc. But, because of his play and because he's a vet, he will get paid by somebody. Teams are full of vet guys who are playing well and deserve to get paid. Looney is never going to make the money Zeke will but it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to get paid and that's what the design of the current wage scale system does.

Lets say you are not a 1st round pick but a 2nd round pick or lower. You play well and you see a new contract probably after your 3rd season because there is no 5th year option. That's a lot more money a lot earlier. If you are a lower round pick then that it's even better. Lets say you are undrafted, you can pick the best possible situation to sign with and if you ball out, you are making bank in your 2nd year.

I honestly think the NFL Players got it right with how they set up the wage scale for the younger guys and not just for nothing but, it's not actually a great thing to have all of these really young players walking around with all this money in their pockets. I mean, the money is going to be there for these guys and it's not as if they are poor to begin with. A lot of these young guys get ruined by all the money. I mean, think about it, would you rather be in a situation Zeke and the Cowboys are in right now or would you rather be in a situation like Detroit is in with Stafford? I actually think Stafford is better then most fans do but his contract situation is and has been prohibitive to the improvement of the team in Detroit in my opinion, because he got one of those contracts where they paid him too much, to young and before the current salary structure was in place.

I just feel like the NFL is fair to the Rookies and it's the right thing to do to pay the Vets, rather then invest stupid amounts of money on unproven players. For every Zeke, there is a Trent Richardson and probably 20 of those guys. Those guys are making money too and not panning out. I get it that the point here, is about a player who has already shown something over three seasons but the reality is that if you were to go to paying players, off of Rookie contracts huge amounts of money early, it would eventually get to paying Rookies big dollars coming into the league and that's a terrible place to be in the NFL. Young players have to understand that they have to wait their turn and the money will be their for them. You go against that and you have a whole looker room full of guys that are grown men looking at you and thinking, you screwed me. That's not where you want to be.

Anyway, that's how I see it.
 
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