PFT implies Watson punishment should be no more than Jerry, Kraft or Sydner

[Reid1boys]

Not really it just shows that when you do not show a grand jury everything they do not necessarily indict. His defense in the civil cases, based on his deposition, is that he committed a crime but not the one he is accused of. Despite effectively admitting to a crime he is not being charged because the grand jury was not shown that evidence which is what happens when you have virtually no contact with the lawyer representing the women in question.

Just to be clear using selective evidence to try and get a grand jury to not indict and therefore claim there is no case and be done with it is not even a unique tactic in this case, it is fairly common move for cases that prosecutors do not want to touch.

IM a little confused as to what you are saying. His lawyer(Watsons?) showed evidence to the grand jury?

 

[Flamma]

did you watch the video I linked to above?

Yes. Where the guy is comparing it to Kraft, which is no comparison. He just sounds stupid doing so. And he's talking about evidence of sexual assault. As far as I know, Watson isn't being accused of sexual assault. Or any sexual violence. He seems to be focused on a limited area and assumes nothing is wrong if the crime doesn't fit that small area. There is such a thing as sexual misconduct that does not include assault or violence. But the dude seems to ignore that entirely. Go out on the street tomorrow and flash little kids going to school. See what happens.

 

[Reid1boys]

Yes. Where the guy is comparing it to Kraft, which is no comparison. He just sounds stupid doing so. And he's talking about evidence of sexual assault. As far as I know, Watson isn't being accused of sexual assault. Or any sexual violence. He seems to be focused on a limited area and assumes nothing is wrong if the crime doesn't fit that small area. There is such a thing as sexual misconduct that does not include assault or violence. But the dude seems to ignore that entirely. Go out on the street tomorrow and flash little kids going to school. See what happens.

IM not sure what you are watching... the "Guy," in the video is Mike Florio, a REPORTER. He is talking about what was presented in the arbitration case by the NFL. You also cant compare a dud getting a massage with being out on the street. Have you ever gotten a massage? Are you aware that you have a choice to be nude at your massage? At least I did during the few that I have gotten. I was personally not comfortable so I stayed in my under ware, BUT had I been nude and covered with a tiny towel, there is no doubt that maseuse would have seen me nude when i moved over from one side to the other.

You say he sounds stupid for bringin up sexual assault... i dont know how to say this without sounding rude, so forgive me but.... it is you that sounds "Stupid," here because you clearly dont understand what he is doing or talking about. Read this from his article today:

The NFL’s case focused on five people. And, as PFT reported last week, that evidence included no proof of violence or threats or any type of physical conduct that would constitute actual assault.

The Personal Conduct Policy expressly prohibits “assault and/or battery, including sexual assault or other sex offenses.” If there’s no sexual assault, that specific provision of the policy hasn’t been violated.

And that’s the provision that creates a baseline suspension of six games per offense. Here’s the key language of the policy: “With regard to violations of the Policy that involve: (i) criminal assault or battery (felony); (ii) domestic violence, dating violence, child abuse and other forms of family violence; or (iii) sexual assault involving physical force or committed against someone incapable of giving consent, a first violation will subject the violator to a baseline suspension without pay of six games, with possible upward or downward adjustments based on any aggravating or mitigating factors.”

Without proof of “sexual assault involving physical force or committed against someone incapable of giving consent,” there’s no violation of that specific provision. (It’s possible that the league will try to argue that the circumstances suggest that the persons were not capable of giving consent, but that typically refers to someone who is underage or incapacitated in some way, for example, someone who is unconscious due to alcohol or drug consumption.)



Bottom line is the GUY you are talking about is a lawyer( and nfl reporter) and he is breaking down how this ARBITRATION case works. He makes it clear that NONE of the 5 accusations in this case... 5 not 24 but FIVE because that is all thats being looked at here, none of them involve threats or physical contact that would trigger the 6 game suspension the NFL could levy. That is why he brings up sexual assault. Darn these pesky facts.

 

[Haimerej]

I was personally not comfortable so I stayed in my under ware, BUT had I been nude and covered with a tiny towel, there is no doubt that maseuse would have seen me nude when i moved over from one side to the other.

Most professional massage therapists won't look when you roll over and afford you time to cover yourself before proceeding. My wife is a former massage therapist. She worked at a spa with her aunt, uncle, and cousin. It seems like you have some assumptions about that world based on limited knowledge and experience. They're not prostitutes and many of them would have a hard time making money trying that, i.e. people no one would pay to get sexy time.

If clients came in trying anything or asking for anything they would be told to get the hell out and never allowed back.

that evidence included no proof of violence or threats or any type of physical conduct that would constitute actual assault.

As regards that snippet, how would you provide evidence between two people in a private room? It's not like they put cameras in there for the same reasons you don't put cameras in bathrooms. This is all essentially he said/she said and difficult to prove either way. Knowing a little about that world, it's very odd that someone would see so many different therapists. I guess you could say he just couldn't find one who did well, but most people who get massages don't see tons of different therapists. Sometimes people would show up for walk-ins and refuse to have an available therapist work on them because their therapist was busy with another client or even had the day off.

 

[kskboys]

Most professional massage therapists won't look when you roll over and afford you time to cover yourself before proceeding. My wife is a former massage therapist. She worked at a spa with her aunt, uncle, and cousin. It seems like you have some assumptions about that world based on limited knowledge and experience. They're not prostitutes and many of them would have a hard time making money trying that, i.e. people no one would pay to get sexy time.

If clients came in trying anything or asking for anything they would be told to get the hell out and never allowed back.



As regards that snippet, how would you provide evidence between two people in a private room? It's not like they put cameras in there for the same reasons you don't put cameras in bathrooms. This is all essentially he said/she said and difficult to prove either way. Knowing a little about that world, it's very odd that someone would see so many different therapists. I guess you could say he just couldn't find one who did well, but most people who get massages don't see tons of different therapists. Sometimes people would show up for walk-ins and refuse to have an available therapist work on them because their therapist was busy with another client or even had the day off.

Haven't heard any testimony of violence.

 

[Reid1boys]

Most professional massage therapists won't look when you roll over and afford you time to cover yourself before proceeding. My wife is a former massage therapist. She worked at a spa with her aunt, uncle, and cousin. It seems like you have some assumptions about that world based on limited knowledge and experience. They're not prostitutes and many of them would have a hard time making money trying that, i.e. people no one would pay to get sexy time.

If clients came in trying anything or asking for anything they would be told to get the hell out and never allowed back.



As regards that snippet, how would you provide evidence between two people in a private room? It's not like they put cameras in there for the same reasons you don't put cameras in bathrooms. This is all essentially he said/she said and difficult to prove either way. Knowing a little about that world, it's very odd that someone would see so many different therapists. I guess you could say he just couldn't find one who did well, but most people who get massages don't see tons of different therapists. Sometimes people would show up for walk-ins and refuse to have an available therapist work on them because their therapist was busy with another client or even had the day off.

Once again, you are missing the point. What actually happened is irrelevant to this arbitration hearing. What EVIDENCE is presented is what will be used to determine the penalty, if any, Watson gets. And I made zero assumptions about the profession.

 

[Haimerej]

Haven't heard any testimony of violence.

"Threats," were included in that statement.

 

[Haimerej]

Once again, you are missing the point. What actually happened is irrelevant to this arbitration hearing. What EVIDENCE is presented is what will be used to determine the penalty, if any, Watson gets. And I made zero assumptions about the profession.

"Once again"?

You said, "there is no doubt." That's an assumption that in the majority of cases isn't true.

As regards, "the point," I'm apparently missing- I asked how one would be able to provide the evidence they said hasn't been provided in the context of two people making assertions about what happened in a private room.

Just a question. No need to get defensive about it.

 

[Flamma]

You say he sounds stupid for bringin up sexual assault... i dont know how to say this without sounding rude, so forgive me but.... it is you that sounds "Stupid," here because you clearly dont understand what he is doing or talking about. Read this from his article today:

The NFL’s case focused on five people. And, as PFT reported last week, that evidence included no proof of violence or threats or any type of physical conduct that would constitute actual assault.

The Personal Conduct Policy expressly prohibits “assault and/or battery, including sexual assault or other sex offenses.” If there’s no sexual assault, that specific provision of the policy hasn’t been violated.

I didn't say he sounded stupid for bringing up assault. I said it sounded stupid when he kept comparing it to what Kraft did.

I also get their policy on sexual assault. He's like the 3rd person now I've heard speak on that baseline of 6 games. I never even thought that was on the table. I was under the assumption he was falling under the category of the "other sex offenses", or to use a broader term, sexual misconduct. There are unwelcome action that can be done that are neither threatening, forceful, or violent. Does the league have a policy on that? Besides that, there's not going to be proof of anything. It's a he said she said.

 

[ghst187]

I dont see how Watson did anything wrong to be honest. Trying for a happy ending or trying to have sex with your massage therapist happens. I doubt he forced any of them to do anything.

Organization should get punished for being dumb and not referring him to the proper “massage therapists” that would not have had issue giving a happy ending. Or he could’ve asked for a trade to LV. i also think Roger Goodell should suspend himself for life for allowing all the stuff from the last few years to make it to press instead of handling it.

 

[Reid1boys]

"Threats," were included in that statement.

There were no claims of threats presented in the arbitration hearing according to florio. Let me repeT what florio has said. There has been ZERO evidence presented that could trigger a suspension against Watson for violation of the rules on regards to sexual misconduct or violence...ZERO EVIDENCE.

 

[Haimerej]

There were no claims of threats presented in the arbitration hearing according to florio. Let me repeT what florio has said. There has been ZERO evidence presented that could trigger a suspension against Watson for violation of the rules on regards to sexual misconduct or violence...ZERO EVIDENCE.

Which is why I asked what evidence could be presented in this context.

 

[Reid1boys]

I didn't say he sounded stupid for bringing up assault. I said it sounded stupid when he kept comparing it to what Kraft did.

I also get their policy on sexual assault. He's like the 3rd person now I've heard speak on that baseline of 6 games. I never even thought that was on the table. I was under the assumption he was falling under the category of the "other sex offenses", or to use a broader term, sexual misconduct. There are unwelcome action that can be done that are neither threatening, forceful, or violent. Does the league have a policy on that? Besides that, there's not going to be proof of anything. It's a he said she said.

From what dorp reported, it doesn't sound like there is policy you are referring to. Florida made it clear there had been zero offered that would get him in trouble unless they fall back on the party about basically making the league look bad which is super broad.
I apologize for not having the exact language, om on my phone.

 

[Haimerej]

For example-

Guy and girl on a date. After the date he wants some action. She's refusing. He says, "do X or I'll do Y." She does X.

Next day she says he threatened her to do X. What's the evidence? How would someone get evidence to prove he threatened her?

 

[Reid1boys]

Which is why I asked what evidence could be presented in this context.

Texts? If you want to suspend someone and cost them millions, shouldn't there be more than accusations, which must have been very weak since only 5 different woman's stories were even used. All the rest, the nfl dismissed.....I wonder why?

 

[Haimerej]

Texts? If you want to suspend someone and cost them millions, shouldn't there be more than accusations, which must have been very weak since only 5 different woman's stories were even used. All the rest, the nfl dismissed.....I wonder why?

I thought these situations happened in the context of getting a massage. Are you saying he texted the masseuse to grab his junk while he was on the table?

 

[Reid1boys]

For example-

Guy and girl on a date. After the date he wants some action. She's refusing. He says, "do X or I'll do Y." She does X.

Next day she says he threatened her to do X. What's the evidence? How would someone get evidence to prove he threatened her?

Happens exactly as described in rapes everyday.

 

[Haimerej]

Happens exactly as described in rapes everyday.

Yep. But usually in rapes there's some evidence left behind. In this context, I can't think of any evidence unless he "finished," and the masseuse kept a sample. Even then, she's got an uphill battle to prove.

 

[kskboys]

Texts? If you want to suspend someone and cost them millions, shouldn't there be more than accusations, which must have been very weak since only 5 different woman's stories were even used. All the rest, the nfl dismissed.....I wonder why?

I was wondering that myself.

Since several of these happened some time back and they weren't reported then, it sure does appear to be nothing more than a money grab.

 

[Flamma]

From what dorp reported, it doesn't sound like there is policy you are referring to. Florida made it clear there had been zero offered that would get him in trouble unless they fall back on the party about basically making the league look bad which is super broad.
I apologize for not having the exact language, om on my phone.

I know what policy you're talking about. It's similar to actions detrimental to the league. That your choices put yourself in a compromised position, leading to the league looking bad.