Pittsburgh Pass Defense

[Temo]

We can probably agree that Pittsburgh's Pass defense is top-5 in the league.

Well I was watching them play against the Colts this week and noticed that their corners are always playing 5-10 yards off the WRs (and up close to the slot receivers).

The difference between the Steelers and Cowboys, however, was that Pittsburgh would not let the Colts get ANY yards after catch. I mean they were hitting people in the mouth right after they caught the ball. And not just the corners/safties either (though they are all really good tacklers), but the Linebackers and even the DEFENSIVE LINEMAN.

Sure, the D-Lineman might be late to the receiver, but they were all surging to the ball where-ever it was caught.

Also, their pass rush helps (though Manning was vintage Manning today, and didn't take a lot of pressure).

I guess I'm just offering this as something to think about, whenever you choose to next complain about "soft zones". There's pro's and con's of ever coverage scheme. Zone pass defense isn't meant to cause a lot of incompletions (though obviously if you're good, you can cause a lot anyway), but rather to limit YAC and get INTs (it's easier to get picks in zone than in Man, since you can read the QB better).

It's all in the execution. You generally need smarter and more disciplined people to play zone than Man coverage. And frankly, the secondary has played much, much better zone the last two games since Wade simplified the defense (there were a LOT of blown assignments before).

 

[ScipioCowboy]

We can probably agree that Pittsburgh's Pass defense is top-5 in the league.

Well I was watching them play against the Colts this week and noticed that their corners are always playing 5-10 yards off the WRs (and up close to the slot receivers).

I posted the very same observation last week, and the board completely ignored it - of course, that's not terribly unusual.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Umm the Steelers secondary isn't that good actually...

 

[es22]

The difference is that the Steelers bring pressure, unlike the Cowboys (minus Ware)

 

[Frozen700]

yup i agree...we are just a dumb team...and i blame wade for it

we dont hit in practice...and with his coaching style we are never intense and aggressive

we seem to do good 1 drive and the next we cant stop a snail

 

[Frozen700]

Umm the Steelers secondary isn't that good actually...

which makes us look even worse...

they may not have our talent...but they have better tackling technique, they hit hard, take better angles, communicate better, and play with intensity, and play smarter

we have to many individuals on this team....henry makes us look worse then we are...if we put orlando in...we may see a better D...take him n Ellis out

and it would hurt to have a Roy Williams of 2004-early 2005 attitude on this team

 

[Temo]

I posted the very same observation last week, and the board completely ignored it - of course, that's not terribly unusual.

Heh, I must have missed it. I haven't watched the steelers until today

But yea, if I hear "why are we playing a 'soft zone' (whatever the hell that is)" again, I'm gonna have to hit something myself.

 

[Temo]

Umm the Steelers secondary isn't that good actually...

Passing Yards/game: Steelers are ranked first in the league
Passing Yards/Attempt: Steelers are ranked first in the league

Opposing QB Rating: Steelers are ranked 7th in the league
1st down %: Steelers are 7th
TDs/season: Steelers are 7th

 

[TellerMorrow34]

The pressure that Pittsburgh gets allows them to be good in the secondary but they're not world beaters. Today they gave up 240 yards and 3 TDs to Manning and that claim that they never allowed the Colts to get YAC yards is just plain silly from someone claiming to have watched the game. Reggie Waynes first TD came after a tip ball, then he spun away from a defender at the 25 and ran it into the endzone.

Now that was the only really significant one but there were a couple of others in the game for shorter runs after the catch. An early Clark catch where he caught it about 6 or 7 yards shine of the first and then ran for not only the first but about 5 yards beyond that and then Mannings final TD pass Rhodes caught at the 8, over Troy, and then ran it the final 8 yards in.

I know that's not a lot but it's certainly more than the idea that they don't allow YAC and that was just the three plays I remembered seeing.

 

[DallasDomination]

That secondary can play 15 yards off and they would still be better then us. They bring the pressure. Dont ever compare the two defensies untill we prove otherswise.

end of story.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Yea, I don't understand how Pitt does it with what seems to be less talent players overall......on paper

 

[Rack]

I wish the cowboys would line up "5-10 yards off the ball" that would be closer than normal.



When have any of us complained about the cowboys lining up 5 yards off the ball? I'd say a grand total of ZERO times. It's whent they line up 10 yards - or more - off the ball and stay that way the whole time.


Even when the steelers play off the WR (5 yards off the ball is NOT playing "Off" the WR) they don't just line up that way and stay there. They move up and back so the QB can't get a good read on what they're doing pre-snap. Our guys just sit there basically holding up a sign telling the QB what they'll be doing on the upcoming play.

 

[Rack]

Heh, I must have missed it. I haven't watched the steelers until today

But yea, if I hear "why are we playing a 'soft zone' (whatever the hell that is)" again, I'm gonna have to hit something myself.

First of all you're wrong about the two teams both playing the same type of "Off" coverage (as I explained above), but even if you were right about it then you yourself should be asking "Why are we playing a 'soft zone'" since you said this...

The difference between the Steelers and Cowboys, however, was that Pittsburgh would not let the Colts get ANY yards after catch

If our guys can't come up and make tackles when they play off coverage then they shouldn't be playing off coverage.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I wish the cowboys would line up "5-10 yards off the ball" that would be closer than normal.



When have any of us complained about the cowboys lining up 5 yards off the ball? I'd say a grand total of ZERO times. It's whent they line up 10 yards - or more - off the ball and stay that way the whole time.


Even when the steelers play off the WR (5 yards off the ball is NOT playing "Off" the WR) they don't just line up that way and stay there. They move up and back so the QB can't get a good read on what they're doing pre-snap. Our guys just sit there basically holding up a sign telling the QB what they'll be doing on the upcoming play.

3-5 yards would be ideal.....they also play man to man not a soft Deep 3 zone defense and they have 2 pass rushers in double digit sacks After Ware it's Ratliff in terms of sacks for us which is sad....

 

[AmishCowboy]

The difference is that the Steelers bring pressure, unlike the Cowboys (minus Ware)

yep, and they have much more Intensity and are a way better tackling team then us.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The pressure that Pittsburgh gets allows them to be good in the secondary but they're not world beaters. Today they gave up 240 yards and 3 TDs to Manning and that claim that they never allowed the Colts to get YAC yards is just plain silly from someone claiming to have watched the game. Reggie Waynes first TD came after a tip ball, then he spun away from a defender at the 25 and ran it into the endzone.

Now that was the only really significant one but there were a couple of others in the game for shorter runs after the catch. An early Clark catch where he caught it about 6 or 7 yards shine of the first and then ran for not only the first but about 5 yards beyond that and then Mannings final TD pass Rhodes caught at the 8, over Troy, and then ran it the final 8 yards in.

I know that's not a lot but it's certainly more than the idea that they don't allow YAC and that was just the three plays I remembered seeing.

that was a lucky play, he got the TD because the defenders were where the ball was supposed to be

the whole point of Temo's post is that usually the Pittsburgh D are very good individual, and team tacklers, they all swarm to the ball, and don't miss very often

while all our defenders are usually taking bad angles and/or are grabbing shoulder pads, quite often, it's like they are on rollerskates out there, it also seems like our defenders take the Fight Club way to tackling, stand around in a group and watch an individual try to make the tackle

 

[DaBoys4Life]

that was a lucky play, he got the TD because the defenders were where the ball was supposed to be

the whole point of Temo's post is that usually the Pittsburgh D are very good individual, and team tacklers, they all swarm to the ball, and don't miss very often

while all our defenders are usually taking bad angles and/or are grabbing shoulder pads, quite often, it's like they are on rollerskates out there, it also seems like our defenders take the Fight Club way to tackling, stand around in a group and watch an individual try to make the tackle

 

[Temo]

Obviously you need good pressure... you can't play good zone without gettign good pressure. That's why the "Tampa 2" relys on having good edge rushers to play effectively. And believe it or not, this defense was built on pressure. Ellis wasn't supposed to be this bad, Canty wasn't supposed to regress this much, and Spenser wasn't supposed to miss most of the season to injury. Tank/Spears were supposed to be occasional fill-in at NT so that Ratliff could move outside to provide a faster edge rush.

The problem is that we haven't gotten pressure, and the secondary has been blowing assignments and tackling poorly. Both of the secondary's problems were looking better the last couple of weeks since the Rams game, though the pressure is still underwhelming.

As for the "Pittsburgh did give up YAC", well of course they did. You can't go an entire game against a still-talented offense and not give up anything. But you could see the difference in team-oriented execution on the defensive side of the ball.

Hamlin is the only decent tackler we have had healthy in the secondary (Newman is good but injured, Henry has looked old, and Scandrick is looking good so far, but need to see more... Jenkins has at least progressed from an awful tackler to an average one).

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Obviously you need good pressure... you can't play good zone without gettign good pressure. That's why the "Tampa 2" relys on having good edge rushers to play effectively. And believe it or not, this defense was built on pressure. Ellis wasn't supposed to be this bad, Canty wasn't supposed to regress this much, and Spenser wasn't supposed to miss most of the season to injury. Tank/Spears were supposed to be occasional fill-in at NT so that Ratliff could move outside to provide a faster edge rush.

The problem is that we haven't gotten pressure, and the secondary has been blowing assignments and tackling poorly. Both of the secondary's problems were looking better the last couple of weeks since the Rams game, though the pressure is still underwhelming.

As for the "Pittsburgh did give up YAC", well of course they did. You can't go an entire game against a still-talented offense and not give up anything. But you could see the difference in team-oriented execution on the defensive side of the ball.

Hamlin is the only decent tackler we have had healthy in the secondary (Newman is good but injured, Henry has looked old, and Scandrick is looking good so far, but need to see more... Jenkins has at least progressed from an awful tackler to an average one).

I agree with almost everything you said....however if Hamlin is the only decent tackler in the 2ndary that isn't say much for us.

 

[Temo]

I agree with almost everything you said....however if Hamlin is the only decent tackler in the 2ndary that isn't say much for us.

Well, Watkins can be pretty decent too, but he can't cover very well (personally, I think he's worse than the much maligned Roy Williams at coverage).

Also we're getting back Newman who is pretty good as well. And I think Jenkins has the talent, it's just that he's a rookie.