Players, Not Coaches - Jerry Is Not The Best Owner

[TNCowboy]

i agree with you that bellihick would have this team at 10-6 to 12-4 and in the playoffs with actual hope to win

Belichick is the best coach of this era, and no one has proven a close 2nd, though the Harbaughs or Payton may one day. That the Patriots are surviving and thriving this year is a testament to how good he is, not only as a coach, but in adding defensive depth to a front 7 gutted by injury.

But there is no way he could get our rag tag defense very far in the playoffs. Certainly not enough to win 12 games. The only way Belichick would turn around our sad sack team is if he was picking the players.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Belichick is the best coach of this era, and no one has proven a close 2nd, though the Harbaughs or Payton may one day. That the Patriots are surviving and thriving this year is a testament to how good he is, not only as a coach, but in adding defensive depth to a front 7 gutted by injury.

But there is no way he could get our rag tag defense very far in the playoffs. Certainly not enough to win 12 games. The only way Belichick would turn around our sad sack team is if he was picking the players.

The bolded part is raw truth.

 

[9darter]

Best post I've seen on these pages.

Jerry's the worst owner in all of (big money) pro sports. But Stephen will eventually top Jerry's incompetence level.

Sad.

 

[Pokeness]

The NFL is about coaching coaching coaching. More than any other sport. And we have none. Belichick would take this same team and go 13-3 with them period.

Belichick can't take his own team to 13-3!

 

[Pokeness]

Belichick can't take his own team to 13-3!

I see now that I may eat my words on that statement. But nonetheless, there isn't a coach or a staff that could take this current Cowboys team to a 13-3 record.

 

[visionary]

Belichick is the best coach of this era, and no one has proven a close 2nd, though the Harbaughs or Payton may one day. That the Patriots are surviving and thriving this year is a testament to how good he is, not only as a coach, but in adding defensive depth to a front 7 gutted by injury.

But there is no way he could get our rag tag defense very far in the playoffs. Certainly not enough to win 12 games. The only way Belichick would turn around our sad sack team is if he was picking the players.

we can disagree on this but, while i agree with 2 deep that talent is a big issues, i think really really bad coaching is a huge part of the problem on the team

i think 10 wins are likely with belichick against our schedule this year

12 may be a stretch but that is why i set those as the limits

reality is that belichick went 11-5 with a team that lost its starting future HOF QB in week 1 with a QB that had not thrown a meaningful pass since high school

 

[visionary]

What defense would Belicheat pull out of his rear end to stop anyone?

i agree with you that lack of talent is a glaring issue on the team
i do believe that really really bad coaching is also a very significant issue

i dont think that 10 wins with belichick against our schedule from this year is that incredulous if Opie can get to 8 wins

 

[TwoDeep3]

i agree with you that lack of talent is a glaring issue on the team
i do believe that really really bad coaching is also a very significant issue

i dont think that 10 wins with belichick against our schedule from this year is that incredulous if Opie can get to 8 wins

I understand. And there may be no right answer here because it is all speculation.

But you clearly have a point that could be correct.

However, in my opinion based on my desire to see Opie heading away from Dallas, I think Romo won those games. So I am rewriting history 6to suit my agenda. As shameless as that is.

 

[visionary]

I understand. And there may be no right answer here because it is all speculation.

But you clearly have a point that could be correct.

However, in my opinion based on my desire to see Opie heading away from Dallas, I think Romo won those games. So I am rewriting history 6to suit my agenda. As shameless as that is.

got it

 

[Yakuza Rich]

This may be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this or any other board except when I accidentally clicked into an OMG board and some prepubescent teenaged girl laid claim to Miley Cyrus will win an Oscar for her acting performance in The Last Song.

Please, this game is about talent on the field. Belicheat could draw up plays in the sand all day long and if the players could not execute them because they don't have the talent, it would not matter.

It's never one thing. Particularly when you have major problems. It's always a combination of things.

It's difficult for me to point the finger at lack of talent given the injuries. You would have to be blind to ignore that.

I also think that we have major philosophical issues on defense. We favor the cover corner. Can't get enough of them. But in today's NFL you need safeties because teams are going to catch the ball and run with it. We keep thinking it's 1992 and these cover corners are the next Deion Sanders.

As far as talent, you can bet that 30-31 of these teams each year have roughly the same grade on draft picks and FA's. It's up to the coaching to develop that talent. Even our 'big reach' with Travis Frederick and the guy was still a very likely 2nd round pick. And Frederick has performed well.

I very much believe that coaching is important not because of schematics as much as it is about developing talent. Getting talent to perform its best. Getting to know the talent's weaknesses and strengths. Ironically, I think a great quote about coaching came from Bum Phillips 'coaching ain't about how much you know, it's about how much you can get the player to do.'

The one cover corner that wasn't a great tackler that worked well for Dallas was...Terence Newman. Of course, he was coached by Parcells who would admittedly left the pick up to the scouts. The difference was that Parcells knew he couldn't have a weak tackler at corner and he worked to make Newman a tough player and willing and capable tackler (he wasn't Night Train Lane, but he wasn't a real issue either).

I think we have a real problem with injuries. We didn't during the Parcells era. You want to sit out of practice? Sure, we'll just have work on calesthenics on the parts of your body that aren't injured and make it so you would rather play hurt than be hurt and doing calesthenics. And if you're hurt for too long, you won't make the team.

I don't see that attitude anymore. And Jerry doesn't seem to want to enforce it either.

So while I won't blame it all on lack of talent, I can't say it's all coaching or it's all bad luck or whatever. It's a combination of a lot of things. The easy way is to just blame it on one thing. It's also the way that never resolves the issues.








YR

 

[TwoDeep3]

It's never one thing. Particularly when you have major problems. It's always a combination of things.

It's difficult for me to point the finger at lack of talent given the injuries. You would have to be blind to ignore that.

I also think that we have major philosophical issues on defense. We favor the cover corner. Can't get enough of them. But in today's NFL you need safeties because teams are going to catch the ball and run with it. We keep thinking it's 1992 and these cover corners are the next Deion Sanders.

As far as talent, you can bet that 30-31 of these teams each year have roughly the same grade on draft picks and FA's. It's up to the coaching to develop that talent. Even our 'big reach' with Travis Frederick and the guy was still a very likely 2nd round pick. And Frederick has performed well.

I very much believe that coaching is important not because of schematics as much as it is about developing talent. Getting talent to perform its best. Getting to know the talent's weaknesses and strengths. Ironically, I think a great quote about coaching came from Bum Phillips 'coaching ain't about how much you know, it's about how much you can get the player to do.'

The one cover corner that wasn't a great tackler that worked well for Dallas was...Terence Newman. Of course, he was coached by Parcells who would admittedly left the pick up to the scouts. The difference was that Parcells knew he couldn't have a weak tackler at corner and he worked to make Newman a tough player and willing and capable tackler (he wasn't Night Train Lane, but he wasn't a real issue either).

I think we have a real problem with injuries. We didn't during the Parcells era. You want to sit out of practice? Sure, we'll just have work on calesthenics on the parts of your body that aren't injured and make it so you would rather play hurt than be hurt and doing calesthenics. And if you're hurt for too long, you won't make the team.

I don't see that attitude anymore. And Jerry doesn't seem to want to enforce it either.

So while I won't blame it all on lack of talent, I can't say it's all coaching or it's all bad luck or whatever. It's a combination of a lot of things. The easy way is to just blame it on one thing. It's also the way that never resolves the issues.








YR

The replacements are due to injuries. I agree.

But even on their best days this team was perhaps middle of the road talent wise on the lines.

That equates to the dog poo that shows up on the field.

Coaching cannot make a scrub a HOFer

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The replacements are due to injuries. I agree.

But even on their best days this team was perhaps middle of the road talent wise on the lines.

That equates to the dog poo that shows up on the field.

Coaching cannot make a scrub a HOFer

I think Spencer and Ware, when healthy are legitimate double digit sacks players and Pro Bowlers. The same goes for Hatcher. Ratliff, if healthy is pretty darn good. I could see the concern and iffiness over Ratliff before the season started. But, I would still take a healthy D-Line of say Spencer-Hayden-Hatcher-Ware with backups of Selvie-Bass-Crawford-Wilber.

Bruce Carter looked terrific last season. He fell apart this year (starting to get better). Still, that was surprising since he played in a 4-3 in college with similar responsibilities. Sean Lee is Sean Lee.

I don't think anybody is disputing Claiborne's grading coming out of college. He was ranked as a top-3 defensive player in a very good draft class. Carr is overpaid, but still a talented player. However, scheme doesn't really fit him. In the end, he's still a talent. So is Scandrick.

The only part on defense, where most of the issues are, is with the safeties. I think Wilcox is talented and he was universally thought of as a 3rd round pick. I'm not high on Church and I think it could be argued that he's not a legit starter.

Still, 9-10 talented players out of 11 is not a 'lack of talent.'

I could go into the offense, but to save time we haven't made wild draft picks. We are not selecting a projected 6th rounder in the 2nd round. And for the most part, we haven't traded away draft picks like the Commanders or Raiders would.

Mike Jenkins was a projected 1st rounder by the *entire* league. So was Felix. Poor development of their talents did them in.

That's why coaching is so crucial. We see this with Belichick quite often. He'll take in somebody that was a bust somewhere else and turns them into a good, productive player. I don't think it's really a scheme issue, I think it's about pure coaching and talent development.

If you really want to get into the Jerry argument with me, I would start with Jerry's propensity to overvalue cover corners and TE's along with him being much more likely to trade up or trade away a pick than to trade down and acquire additional picks. Every economic study I've read on the draft points to that being a bad idea, yet Jerry continues to follow that route. The true irony is that his wheeling and dealing and trading down to acquire more picks is what helped him win those Super Bowls.





YR

 

[noshame]

I mostly agree, but this offense is playing far below the talent level, and that my friend is coaching.

 

[Risen Star]

I am merely drawing a map. I cannot make the franchise drive there.

Outstanding stuff, TD.

 

[Picksix]

The NFL is about coaching coaching coaching. More than any other sport. And we have none. Belichick would take this same team and go 13-3 with them period.

Yeah, no. I mean, we'd probably be better. 13-3 better? Not with this defense.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Don't disagree that Jerry is the ultimate problem, but a lot of that problem is the head coaches he's chosen. And I'm not aiming this at TwoDeep in particular, because I've seen it written a thousand times from 100 different people.

But I'm so tired of this theme that "Well, they're playing hard, so the coaching isn't to blame." That is bunk. It's very possible to work extremely hard but not get maximum results. That's why so many coaches whose teams play hard are fired every year. This is the NFL and every advantage matters, including schematic ones. We see examples of good coaching all the time, from Parcells in 2003 to Chip Kelly this year. Those coaches get more out of the team than just trying hard. They accurately assess the talent on their roster and put those players in the best position to succeed. We don't see that here.

 

[wileedog]

Don't disagree that Jerry is the ultimate problem, but a lot of that problem is the head coaches he's chosen. And I'm not aiming this at TwoDeep in particular, because I've seen it written a thousand times from 100 different people.

But I'm so tired of this theme that "Well, they're playing hard, so the coaching isn't to blame." That is bunk. It's very possible to work extremely hard but not get maximum results. That's why so many coaches whose teams play hard are fired every year. This is the NFL and every advantage matters, including schematic ones. We see examples of good coaching all the time, from Parcells in 2003 to Chip Kelly this year. Those coaches get more out of the team than just trying hard. They accurately assess the talent on their roster and put those players in the best position to succeed. We don't see that here.

Yeah I don't think the Chiefs are just "playing harder" for Andy Reid.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Perhaps the best example of Jerry's management is Jason Hatcher. At various times this year, Hatcher has flirted with being the best defensive tackle in the league. Posters ask, "What changed? Where has this Jason Hatcher been hiding his entire career?"

My answer is (I could be wrong), "he's always been here. He just plays when he wants to."

 

[wileedog]

My answer is (I could be wrong), "he's always been here. He just plays when he wants to."

I'll take "Who is a free agent this year?" for $500 Alex

 

[plymkr]

Best post I've seen on these pages.

Jerry's the worst owner in all of (big money) pro sports. But Stephen will eventually top Jerry's incompetence level.

Sad.

ok this is what I have been thinking about all day. Jerry will retire/die/whatever at some point in time and Stephen will take over. Is this a good thing? I've been a fan of this team for 38 years and I have been asking myself over and over again, is there any reason to have hope for the future with the Jerry involved and/or his family.

And for the first time I strongly agree that Jerry is the worst owner in sports and I've been asking myself was winning the Jimmy Johnson's super bowls worth 20 years of mediocrity? Better stated, would it have been better if Jerry bought the San Diego Chargers like he almost did, than him buying the Cowboys. SD may have won some in the beginning with Jimmy as coach but we as fans would not have been cursed with Jerry for the last 20 years and possibly 20 more. The Big D has turned into the big Depression and I don't see any prozac heading our way.