Question here (yes anoher Roy Williams thread)

[dargonking999]

We all talk about how Roy can't cover, and bla bla bla right?

We talk about how he can't cover elite TE's one and one.

We refer to his inablity to stop every pass thrown while he's in man coverage.


So my question is,

How many CB's can stop elite WR's one on one?

how many times has henry been burned, Reeves, Newman?

Hall, Mathis, Samuels, Law, etc

To bash Roy, a SS, because he is unable to play at CB level when playing against TE's that most teams have to use 2 players to stop, to me is pure stupidty.

Is he the greatest in coverage? No

Is he better than most in the leage? Yes

He is a probowler not because the fan's want him there, but because coaches and players know the impact he has on a game. While Roy may give up plays, he makes plays as well. he is a game changer one way or another. We are 8-1, and it's not inspite of Roy.

Just wanted to you know, release some thoughts. Bored on a saturday night

 

[dogunwo]

This thread will not be met with open arms......cue Roy haters

 

[Everlastingxxx]

Oh joy another Roy Williams thread.

 

[Ashwynn]

Dont know the answer to your question. But a FS and both corners ability to cover is a given. Thats what they do. A SS is not known as a cover guy generally, usually being the 'hammer' of the D and coming up to hit. When SS's get burned in coverage, you just have to grin and bear it and hope next time he hits the received hard enough to where the receiver dont wanna go across the middle anymore.

Once upon a time Roy was good at hitting. He cant even do that with regularity. Most times bouncing off the ball carrier or hitting his own man instead. Roy 'friendly fire' Williams?

I like Roy, but I yell a the TV more then any other player when he misses a tackle for loss, hits Newman instead of the receiver or throws his body into a pile just to glance off and hit the turf, leaving the pile of boys to tackle the ball carrier. Dont even get me started when he horse collars someone, or even starts runing up behind someone. I just know hes gunna grab the back of the jersey and fall down and yank the receiver down. He just scares me more then any other player we have, in the sense I know something bad can happen when hes making/about to make a play.

 

[Big Dakota]

It's just plain hard as heck for any DB nowadays. All the rules are against you. The WRs are bigger, faster and more talented than ever. I've watched GB play several times this year and i'll tell you that Atari Bigby dude can't cover to save his life. Most S struggle these days and a lot of CBs as well. I'm not thrilled with Roy's coverage ability, but you are right, plenty struggle. But it's not news to talk about the Bigby's of the world.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

Dont know the answer to your question. But a FS and both corners ability to cover is a given. Thats what they do. A SS is not known as a cover guy generally, usually being the 'hammer' of the D and coming up to hit. When SS's get burned in coverage, you just have to grin and bear it and hope next time he hits the received hard enough to where the receiver dont wanna go across the middle anymore.

Once upon a time Roy was good at hitting. He cant even do that with regularity. Most times bouncing off the ball carrier or hitting his own man instead. Roy 'friendly fire' Williams?

I like Roy, but I yell a the TV more then any other player when he misses a tackle for loss, hits Newman instead of the receiver or throws his body into a pile just to glance off and hit the turf, leaving the pile of boys to tackle the ball carrier. Dont even get me started when he horse collars someone, or even starts runing up behind someone. I just know hes gunna grab the back of the jersey and fall down and yank the receiver down. He just scares me more then any other player we have, in the sense I know something bad can happen when hes making/about to make a play.

^You must not have been watching his play this year. He missed a tackle against Desmond Clark and Brian Westbrook all year. And i have every game recorded. I just dont see what you guys see. He is my favorite Cowboy and i think he has been the best Cowboy defender since 2002 with the exception of 2005 because of Newman. Now its clear D Ware and Newman are better than Roy. But Roy is still a great player and he never misses games. I swear his durability is taken for granted so much. If Roy missed a game in the future it would be very evident in a negative way.


And one more thing, I dont see the unstoppable Ed Reed stopping offenses from anally raping his vaunted defense that he is supposed to be one of the leaders of.

 

[AdamJT13]

Quick, someone name every catch over 20 yards that Roy has allowed this season.

It shouldn't take long.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

53 tackles, 5 Pdef 2ints and only given up 2TD in 9 games. Wouldn't these numbers be great for any SS in the league. If Laron Landry or Taylor or Ed Reed were having these kind of numbers people would say there having a pretty good year. Why can't we say that about Roy?

 

[2much2soon]

I just want to know how Roy could go from, as a rookie, playing textbook coverage and intercepting a pass to a WR with a good chance to be in the HOF(Jimmy Smith) to now getting owned by an above average TE in Shockey everytime they get on the field?
And before anyone plays the "no SS can cover Shockey" card then how come the Gints don't use Shockey like that in every single game they play? If every other SS is a brutal in coverage as Roy then the Gints should be able to execute the same game plan every week against any team.

 

[Ashwynn]

^You must not have been watching his play this year. He missed a tackle against Desmond Clark and Brian Westbrook all year. And i have every game recorded. I just dont see what you guys see. He is my favorite Cowboy and i think he has been the best Cowboy defender since 2002 with the exception of 2005 because of Newman. Now its clear D Ware and Newman are better than Roy. But Roy is still a great player and he never misses games. I swear his durability is taken for granted so much. If Roy missed a game in the future it would be very evident in a negative way.


And one more thing, I dont see the unstoppable Ed Reed stopping offenses from anally raping his vaunted defense that he is supposed to be one of the leaders of.

Dont get me wrong, I would not trade Roy for anyone. I like Roy a lot. But hes noticeable for a flub more often then hes is for making a play. Its just a fact of life. Hes a fan favorite and a Cowboy for life I am sure, but he does not hang the moon.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

I just want to know how Roy could go from, as a rookie, playing textbook coverage and intercepting a pass to a WR with a good chance to be in the HOF(Jimmy Smith) to now getting owned by an above average TE in Shockey everytime they get on the field?
And before anyone plays the "no SS can cover Shockey" card then how come the Gints don't use Shockey like that in every single game they play? If every other SS is a brutal in coverage as Roy then the Gints should be able to execute the same game plan every week against any team.

If Dallas was doubling Plax then you tell me what you would do. Go at the Roy vs Shockey matchup or Newman or Reeves against Toomer 1 on 1? hmmm

Does'nt sound like a hard decision for me. You?

 

[Wood]

first of all...I think we should define what a SS is TODAY...not what it was 5 years ago. Five years ago....your SS just brought the hammer down on running backs and receivers running accross the field. This was before the Wittens, Gates, Shockey and Cooley of the world were incorporated into offenses. But with that...it has really exposed some SS like Roy Williams who are technically poor in coverage. As I mentioned in another thread...guys like Michael Lewis (who was on verge of pro-bowl) are out of football now because their poor coverage skills far exceeded their hitting ability. In future drafts....you will not see any safety (SS or FS) getting drafted high unless that have good coverage ability. When Roy was drafted...I dont even remember anyone talking about his coverage skills because it wasn't such a big issue then.

Now onto Roy. He is not average in coverage....if he was...he wouldn't be targeted as much. Parcells wasn't joking when he called Roy "biscuit" because he was only one biscuit away from being a linebacker. And that is really the point her....Roy covers like a linebacker which makes him a huge liability in coverage. I saw a DVD of Roy his rookie year last week...and he is definitely slower now. His body looks more "frumpy" now. I dont know what happend to Roy and would love nothing more than for him to be a dominant player Dallas is paying him to be. But the good news is that he is really the only player who is under-performing to his talent level. We used to have a bunch of those guys around.

 

[2much2soon]

If Dallas was doubling Plax then you tell me what you would do. Go at the Roy vs Shockey matchup or Newman or Reeves against Toomer 1 on 1? hmmm

Does'nt sound like a hard decision for me. You?

It must just be my imagination that Shockey eats Roy alive every time they play. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

first of all...I think we should define what a SS is TODAY...not what it was 5 years ago. Five years ago....your SS just brought the hammer down on running backs and receivers running accross the field. This was before the Wittens, Gates, Shockey and Cooley of the world were incorporated into offenses. But with that...it has really exposed some SS like Roy Williams who are technically poor in coverage. As I mentioned in another thread...guys like Michael Lewis (who was on verge of pro-bowl) are out of football now because their poor coverage skills far exceeded their hitting ability. In future drafts....you will not see any safety (SS or FS) getting drafted high unless that have good coverage ability. When Roy was drafted...I dont even remember anyone talking about his coverage skills because it wasn't such a big issue then.

Now onto Roy. He is not average in coverage....if he was...he wouldn't be targeted as much. Parcells wasn't joking when he called Roy "biscuit" because he was only one biscuit away from being a linebacker. And that is really the point her....Roy covers like a linebacker which makes him a huge liability in coverage. I saw a DVD of Roy his rookie year last week...and he is definitely slower now. His body looks more "frumpy" now. I dont know what happend to Roy and would love nothing more than for him to be a dominant player Dallas is paying him to be. But the good news is that he is really the only player who is under-performing to his talent level. We used to have a bunch of those guys around.

Micheal Lewis is the starting SS for the 49ers and it was well known that Roy when Roy was drafted that he had coverage problems.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

It must just be my imagination that Shockey eats Roy alive every time they play. Sorry for the mistake.

Shockey had average games both games against dallas last year as far as when Roy was guarding him. So i dont tihnk its your imagination, you are just misinformed. If we split Witten wide on Sunday and Romo sees Landry on him 1 on 1 the ball will go to Witten for a completion. All im sayin.

 

[AdamJT13]

It must just be my imagination that Shockey eats Roy alive every time they play. Sorry for the mistake.

Shockey had four catches for 23 yards against Roy last week. In his previous four games against Dallas, Shockey averaged 3.75 catches for 37.25 yards. Boy, he just eats us alive every time, huh?

Oh, and I'm still waiting for someone to name every catch for 20 yards or more than Roy has allowed this season.

 

[Wood]

Micheal Lewis is the starting SS for the 49ers

that might explain some of San Fran defense being ranked #21 against the pass. The guy sure can hit though.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

that might explain some of San Fran defense being ranked #21 against the pass. The guy sure can hit though.

Or maybe its because their offense is horrible and the defense is always on the field? Just a reasonable thought.lol

 

[Goldenrichards83]

that might explain some of San Fran defense being ranked #21 against the pass. The guy sure can hit though.

Yea but he is in the league. I was just pointing out that part of your argument.

Why hasn't anyone answered my question about being satisfied with a SS with 53 tackles 5 PDef 2 ints and only given up 2 TDS. Is it me or aren't those pretty good numbers for a SS in 9 games.

 

[AdamJT13]

Why hasn't anyone answered my question

It's the same reason nobody has been able to list all of the completions for more than 20 yards against Roy this season.

The Roy-bashing crowd never backs up any of its claims with any evidence, only conjecture.