Quick Question Re: Felix

[odog422]

I take it he did not return kicks last night?

On that same issue, I was kind of irked how Wade downplayed to Jerry the value Felix could have on kickoffs in this last episode of HK. Probably indicative of why our coverage units are so poor -- STs not as important in Wade's eyes, I guess.

 

[LeonDixson]

I take it he did not return kicks last night?

On that same issue, I was kind of irked how Wade downplayed to Jerry the value Felix could have on kickoffs in this last episode of HK. Probably indicative of why our coverage units are so poor -- STs not as important in Wade's eyes, I guess.

No, he didn't return kicks last night. I took Wade's comment to Jerry differently than you did. I don't think he was downplaying Felix's value on returns, I just think he said you would get so much more value out of designing offensive plays around him. The implication was: if he gets injured returning kicks you lose a whole lot of value on offense.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

No, he didn't return kicks last night. I took Wade's comment to Jerry differently than you did. I don't think he was downplaying Felix's value on returns, I just think he said you would get so much more value out of designing offensive plays around him. The implication was: if he gets injured returning kicks you lose a whole lot of value on offense.

What happens if he gets injured being ummmm I dont know, a running back? Felix is the only option for kick returner unless they want to put somebody back there to get to the 20 consistently. Stanback and Miles were good but they're hurt. Only one option left "coach".

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Where was this outrage when Parcells wouldn't let Newman return punts?

The argument was the same -- that he's too valuable to risk injury. What's different now?

 

[odog422]

No, he didn't return kicks last night. I took Wade's comment to Jerry differently than you did. I don't think he was downplaying Felix's value on returns, I just think he said you would get so much more value out of designing offensive plays around him. The implication was: if he gets injured returning kicks you lose a whole lot of value on offense.

I can respect your take. I just disagree with Wade. Field position is huge, not to mention the possibility of Felix taking it to the house. So to me the difference in what he could contribute offensively as opposed to on specials is neglible.

And honestly, I feel the "injury" think is overdone for KRs. Besides Stanback, I can't really recall hardly any KICK returners, not punt returners, who get hurt.

Finally, I just think it's a waste to not utilize his obvious talent in that area.

 

[Velvet Jones]

Didn't we do the same with Newmen? One of his pluses was his return game and then we never had the grapes to put him back there. Why do we draft people because they are difference makers in Special Teams but then refuse to play people in Special Teams?

 

[odog422]

Where was this outrage when Parcells wouldn't let Newman return punts?

The argument was the same -- that he's too valuable to risk injury. What's different now?

Punt returning is a lot more risky - less ground to cover for kicking team - and more likely for returner to take a "blind" shot waiting on a high punt.

Not to mention, Newman was a starting corner. Felix is supposed to be an addition to, not THE MAN, in the backfield.

And for what's it worth, I wasn't against Newman returning punts, actually. But yes, the difference between Newman's returning punts and Felix's returning kickoffs, to me, is significant.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Punt returning is a lot more risky - less ground to cover for kicking team - and more likely for returner to take a "blind" shot waiting on a high punt.

Not to mention, Newman was a starting corner. Felix is supposed to be an addition to, not THE MAN, in the backfield.

And for what's it worth, I wasn't against Newman returning punts, actually. But yes, the difference between Newman's returning punts and Felix's returning kickoffs, to me, is significant.

Agree on Newman -- I think he should've been doing it the whole time. But lots of other people didn't agree and thought there was no way he should be back there.

I do think kickoff returning is a lot more dangerous, though. Kickoffs involve huge collisions much more than punts do. The entire return team has a running start and the returner does, too. And there aren't any fair catches on kickoffs.

As for a couple of examples of injuries... What about Jason Sehorn? Or the Niners guy Roy almost decapitated his rookie year?

I'm actually for Felix to do it... I just wondered what the difference is this time. I guess Felix isn't exactly a starter, but they're still planning a huge role for him on offense.

 

[LeonDixson]

What happens if he gets injured being ummmm I dont know, a running back? Felix is the only option for kick returner unless they want to put somebody back there to get to the 20 consistently. Stanback and Miles were good but they're hurt. Only one option left "coach".

I can respect your take. I just disagree with Wade. Field position is huge, not to mention the possibility of Felix taking it to the house. So to me the difference in what he could contribute offensively as opposed to on specials is neglible.

And honestly, I feel the "injury" think is overdone for KRs. Besides Stanback, I can't really recall hardly any KICK returners, not punt returners, who get hurt.

Finally, I just think it's a waste to not utilize his obvious talent in that area.

Actually, I wasn't arguing that he shouldn't return kickoffs. I was just saying that I don't believe Wade was DOWNPLAYING Felix's value returning kicks, as the original post suggested. He was just saying he is MORE valuable on offense.

Whether he should do both or not is a different argument. Wade feels it is too big a risk. That's what you guys disagree with. Wade never said Felix wouldn't be good at it.

 

[odog422]

Agree on Newman -- I think he should've been doing it the whole time. But lots of other people didn't agree and thought there was no way he should be back there.

I do think kickoff returning is a lot more dangerous, though. Kickoffs involve huge collisions much more than punts do. The entire return team has a running start and the returner does, too. And there aren't any fair catches on kickoffs.

As for a couple of examples of injuries... What about Jason Sehorn? Or the Niners guy Roy almost decapitated his rookie year?

I'm actually for Felix to do it... I just wondered what the difference is this time. I guess Felix isn't exactly a starter, but they're still planning a huge role for him on offense.

I don't recall exactly what Sehorn's injury was, and the guy Roy blasted happened in the good old days when Roy just sold out and carried with him a special ablility to just knock guys into next week. Guess what I'm saying is I still think punts are more dangerous, but hey, we disagree. No prob.

The other difference is I think Felix's pedigree in this regard - returning kicks - is substantial. I think I read that he was an all american twice and top ten in the nation returner, I think. Meaning I think he has the ability to not expose himself to those kind of shots as well as be extraordinarily successful.

As to what his role will be offensively, there will only be but so many touches for him regardless, what with spreading the ball around to Barber, Witten and Owens. Plus whatever contributions Crayton, Hurd, Austin and even Bennett may make.

Put him back there Wade.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

he just wants to keep fj healthy

 

[anava]

Where was this outrage when Parcells wouldn't let Newman return punts?

The argument was the same -- that he's too valuable to risk injury. What's different now?

The big difference is Newman is a starter. At the time we didnt have the depth at CB. However Felix is a backup, with depth at the position.

 

[odog422]

Whether he should do both or not is a different argument. Wade feels it is too big a risk. That's what you guys disagree with. Wade never said Felix wouldn't be good at it.

I never said Wade said he wouldn't be good at it. Wade is saying for what he could contribute offensively, it's not worth the risk for him to return kicks. I got that. And I'm saying it's worth the risk, IMO. Easily.

 

[adbutcher]

I don't recall exactly what Sehorn's injury was, and the guy Roy blasted happened in the good old days when Roy just sold out and carried with him a special ablility to just knock guys into next week. Guess what I'm saying is I still think punts are more dangerous, but hey, we disagree. No prob.

The other difference is I think Felix's pedigree in this regard - returning kicks - is substantial. I think I read that he was an all american twice and top ten in the nation returner, I think. Meaning I think he has the ability to not expose himself to those kind of shots as well as be extraordinarily successful.

As to what his role will be offensively, there will only be but so many touches for him regardless, what with spreading the ball around to Barber, Witten and Owens. Plus whatever contributions Crayton, Hurd, Austin and even Bennett may make.

Put him back there Wade.

IMO, danger is relative when trying to distinguish which one is more hazardous between punt return and kickoff return.

There are plenty of ferocious hits to go around on Kick Off Return.

However, regarding your first point, I agree.

You can't really protect no one on a football field from injury, that is the nature of the game. So from that perspective I would like to see Felix return kicks.

 

[dmq]

Where was this outrage when Parcells wouldn't let Newman return punts?

The argument was the same -- that he's too valuable to risk injury. What's different now?

Many people I remember were ticked off that Newman wouldn't return kicks because the arguement at the time was Newman deserved to be picked early because he returned kicks instead of trading down to get Trufant.

 

[zeromaster]

What happens if he gets injured being ummmm I dont know, a running back? Felix is the only option for kick returner unless they want to put somebody back there to get to the 20 consistently. Stanback and Miles were good but they're hurt. Only one option left "coach".

I'm with Lab on this one: more chances on offensive snaps than on kickoffs. Yeah you'll get that occasional homerun and might improve field position 5-10 yards on average, but the injury risk is greater on kickoffs with the running start. If any offensive player gets injured in the course of play, it's not questioned except in a blowout, depending on the player's value. For that matter, Romo, TO, Barber, and Adams are even bigger losses than F-Cat if they go down on offense.

jmo

 

[RainMan]

Where was this outrage when Parcells wouldn't let Newman return punts?

The argument was the same -- that he's too valuable to risk injury. What's different now?

Newman was maybe our best defensive player back then and certainly the most irreplaceable. Felix, as good as he could be, has a ways to go to establish that kind of reputation.

I'm not sure I understand letting both Adam Jones and Mike Jenkins in on kick/punt returns, but not our backup running back.

 

[Undisputed]

I think Felix is a weapon and that it's a risk we should be willing to take. Heck, even Adrian Peterson returned kicks some last year. Not saying the Vikings represent some kind of model we should aspire to, but I wouldn't mind if we just put our best players in position to make some plays for us.

Hopefully Felix proves to be valuable to our offense. But I don't think he will be so valuable that we can't even risk him getting hurt during a kickoff return.

 

[Meat-O-Rama]

Didn't we do the same with Newmen? One of his pluses was his return game and then we never had the grapes to put him back there. Why do we draft people because they are difference makers in Special Teams but then refuse to play people in Special Teams?

Newman was drafted for his impact on our secondary. Jones was drafted for his impact on our offense. Would you really rather lose Newman's impact on 30+ plays a game for the possibility of taking one or two to the house on 2 or 3 opportunities a game? Would you really risk Jones impact on 15+ plays a game in order to take one to the house on 2 or 3 opportunities a game? This isn't Madden, this is real football and people have to think about the consequences of their decisions. Wade can;t just hit the reset button when a start player gets hurt. Final point is that this offense is one of the most explosive in the league. They are dangerous from any point on the field, risking your core players to eek out 5 yards a return is not worth it.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

Newman was drafted for his impact on our secondary. Jones was drafted for his impact on our offense. Would you really rather lose Newman's impact on 30+ plays a game for the possibility of taking one or two to the house on 2 or 3 opportunities a game? Would you really risk Jones impact on 15+ plays a game in order to take one to the house on 2 or 3 opportunities a game? This isn't Madden, this is real football and people have to think about the consequences of their decisions. Wade can;t just hit the reset button when a start player gets hurt. Final point is that this offense is one of the most explosive in the league. They are dangerous from any point on the field, risking your core players to eek out 5 yards a return is not worth it.

Thinking like this is why the Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in forever. Thompson, Austin, and Stanback were'nt hurt on any return last year but now all of a sudden Felix will. Play scared and you lose. Maurice Jones Drew has proven a helluva lot more than Felix Jones has and he returns kicks all the time and has won games for the Jags. Wade, you can't be this stupid. This is football!!!!!!!!!!!!