Randy Moss HOF worthy?

BouncingCheese

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I would say that he is worthy considering his body of work in his hey-day in Minnesota; his touchdown totals are breathtaking.
I know Dr. Z is an idiot but he brings up a interesting argument

What say you?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/05/11/mailbag/index.html


(excerpt from Dr.Z's Mailbbag)

Not on my watch

Forget HOF cakewalk for Moss; 'Boys, Vick and more

OK, Brendan, you've done it. You've touched my heart, with your mea culpa Philly apologia. "Don't cringe because of my hometown," writes Brendan Boyle of, you guessed it, Philadelphia. He says that no one will let him forget the stadium's more famous booings, including one that happened a few Christmases before he was born and for which he still has to answer, an event he says Peter King and I will never let go of, and so forth.
Well, you might have guessed by the inclusion of the last name that this gentleman is my E-mailer of the Week. And honestly, Brendan, I don't remember the last time I mentioned that incident, if at all, and the same holds true for Peter, and we don't fall into that high school hee haw of constantly referring to the city's nickname involving a certain type of affection, and here's another reason why you don't have to apologize to me for your city. Are you ready? I was BORN there. West Philly. One aunt lived on 62nd and Christian, another on 62nd and Carpenter.
Did I grow up there? Well, no. Actually, my parents lived in New York, but all my mother's relatives were in Philly, so she went down there to give birth to me, because they were willing to share the expenses. This was in the Depression. Hold your head up high. Philadelphia's a great city. All you have to do to reinforce that belief is visit some of the dreckholes around the U.S. that lay claim to the same honor.

Gary of Winnipeg says he once thought Randy Moss was a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame, but after the way he tanked in Oakland, he's not sure. But then again, he says, the selectors have odd ways of doing things. ("Odd, waddya mean, odd?" James Westerfield, playing Big Mac, the hiring boss, in On the Waterfront). I promise you this, Gary. As long as I'm a selector, the Canton Highway will be a very difficult road for Moss. I don't care how many great years he gives the Patriots. The guy's a dog, and there are too many people who spent years of sacrifice without getting a sniff from the Hall.

I left the Cowboys section out because it wasn't really anything worthy of posting. It is Dr. Z. after all.
 

Future

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Randy Moss will not get into the HOF unless he leads NE or another team to a Super Bowl win.
 

gazmc_06

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if he gets back to his Minnesota days then yes he is but if he doesn't find that form again then no.
 

THUMPER

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Future 585;1496542 said:
Randy Moss will not get into the HOF unless he leads NE or another team to a Super Bowl win.

WRs don't LEAD teams to the SB.
 

gazmc_06

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THUMPER;1496549 said:
WRs don't LEAD teams to the SB.

hmmmm, they can depending on the situation. it usually comes down to the QB or coaching but receivers can in certain cases lead a team.
 

Future

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THUMPER;1496549 said:
WRs don't LEAD teams to the SB.

So if Minnesota had made it to the Super Bowl in one of his first 3-4 years when he was at the top of his game, he wouldn't have lead them there?

I beg to differ, he was the catalyst to that offense, and entire team.
 

iceberg

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THUMPER;1496549 said:
WRs don't LEAD teams to the SB.

leaders lead regardless of their position. i'd certainly call irvin a leader but he had help w/emmitt and troy on offense.
 

BouncingCheese

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gazmc_06;1496555 said:
hmmmm, they can depending on the situation. it usually comes down to the QB or coaching but receivers can in certain cases lead a team.


:banghead:

I do not agree... for a wide reciever to catch the ball, the offensive line must protect the qb and hold off the defense, the quarterback must have sufficient time to pass the ball, and then after that the qb must have to pass to said reciever like Moss. This doesn't even include the fact that the reciver must then actually CATCH the ball and then do something with it. Considering how many time we passed the ball to T.O., our own superstar wideout, he only caught the ball about five time a game. We threw to him about 10-12 times, however. That is alot of waster downs IMO, and those might have been used to pound the ball in . Wideouts can be gameCHANGERS, but not game leaders. No way. If you want to win, you run, if you want to SCORE, you pass. Besides, Tom Brady makes those recievers look good in NE, not the other way around; QB is so much more valuable. Go ahead and check how many WR's have won the MVP award, for that matter TEAM MVP awards; It totally goes against your argument.
 

iceberg

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BouncingCheese;1496573 said:
:banghead:

I do not agree... for a wide reciever to catch the ball, the offensive line must protect the qb and hold off the defense, the quarterback must have sufficient time to pass the ball, and then after that the qb must have to pass to said reciever like Moss. This doesn't even include the fact that the reciver must then actually CATCH the ball and then do something with it. Considering how many time we passed the ball to T.O., our own superstar wideout, he only caught the ball about five time a game. We threw to him about 10-12 times, however. That is alot of waster downs IMO, and those might have been used to pound the ball in . Wideouts can be gameCHANGERS, but not game leaders. No way. If you want to win, you run, if you want to SCORE, you pass. Besides, Tom Brady makes those recievers look good in NE, not the other way around; QB is so much more valuable. Go ahead and check how many WR's have won the MVP award, for that matter TEAM MVP awards; It totally goes against your argument.

so who said this scenario can't happen? no one i've seen yet.

what *is* being said is that a WR *can* be a leader. you saying irvin wasn't a leader? you can rag on his off the field behavior all day long and fine - but a seperate issue. on the field and preparing for the game, he was 100% business and his ethic to work out and be prepared set an example - another form of leadership - to everyone around him.

leaders lead by who they are and how they go about their business. not because of where they are. i can find you qb's who couldn't lead a hungry mouse to cheese so it must not be soley the position, right?
 

gazmc_06

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the difference with the Patriots is that Tom Brady is a great QB who is their leader - Romo isn't Tom Brady so we need T.O. to be a leader.

a WR can be the leader in certain situations.
 

BouncingCheese

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iceberg;1496577 said:
so who said this scenario can't happen? no one i've seen yet.

what *is* being said is that a WR *can* be a leader. you saying irvin wasn't a leader? you can rag on his off the field behavior all day long and fine - but a seperate issue. on the field and preparing for the game, he was 100% business and his ethic to work out and be prepared set an example - another form of leadership - to everyone around him.

leaders lead by who they are and how they go about their business. not because of where they are. i can find you qb's who couldn't lead a hungry mouse to cheese so it must not be soley the position, right?

Your points are valid. I never said that WR's can't be leaders.

I said that he can't lead a team.

I would consider Emmit or Aikman the leaders of the team. So much is dependant on the wide reciever even having the ball passed to him that he can totally fade away in a game and become a non-factor. I am not saying this is the recivers fault but it certainly helps my point because I think so much of what makes a leader is that he/she is always the factor or reason to the outcome. If Aikman wanted to, he could have passed to Irvin half as much as he did.

You are right about how being a leader is not predicated on position on the field, but you look for leadership in a QB. I would pick Tom Brady passing to Reche Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney all day rather than a canon-armed Michael Vick hypothetically passing to Randy Moss. Tom Brady leads his team. You take Brady out of the equation and I question if they win half as many games.

Jamal Lewis rushed for 2,000 yards with eight in the box because Kyle boller "couldn't lead a mouse to cheese" when it came to passing and they still made the playoffs.
 

Future

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BouncingCheese;1496588 said:
Your points are valid. I never said that WR's can't be leaders.

I said that he can't lead a team.

I would consider Emmit or Aikman the leaders of the team. So much is dependant on the wide reciever even having the ball passed to him that he can totally fade away in a game and become a non-factor. I am not saying this is the recivers fault but it certainly helps my point because I think so much of what makes a leader is that he/she is always the factor or reason to the outcome. If Aikman wanted to, he could have passed to Irvin half as much as he did.

You are right about how being a leader is not predicated on position on the field, but you look for leadership in a QB. I would pick Tom Brady passing to Reche Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney all day rather than a canon-armed Michael Vick hypothetically passing to Randy Moss. Tom Brady leads his team. You take Brady out of the equation and I question if they win half as many games.

Jamal Lewis rushed for 2,000 yards with eight in the box because Kyle boller "couldn't lead a mouse to cheese" when it came to passing and they still made the playoffs.

that seems a tad contradictory to me. If an RB can carry the load, why not a WR?

i understand that a QB has to throw him the ball, but a center has to snap it, left tackle has to block...etc etc
 

iceberg

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BouncingCheese;1496588 said:
Your points are valid. I never said that WR's can't be leaders.

I said that he can't lead a team.

I would consider Emmit or Aikman the leaders of the team. So much is dependant on the wide reciever even having the ball passed to him that he can totally fade away in a game and become a non-factor. I am not saying this is the recivers fault but it certainly helps my point because I think so much of what makes a leader is that he/she is always the factor or reason to the outcome. If Aikman wanted to, he could have passed to Irvin half as much as he did.

You are right about how being a leader is not predicated on position on the field, but you look for leadership in a QB. I would pick Tom Brady passing to Reche Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney all day rather than a canon-armed Michael Vick hypothetically passing to Randy Moss. Tom Brady leads his team. You take Brady out of the equation and I question if they win half as many games.

Jamal Lewis rushed for 2,000 yards with eight in the box because Kyle boller "couldn't lead a mouse to cheese" when it came to passing and they still made the playoffs.

i disagree - leaders lead, regardless.

is it more common at qb? sure it is. but it's not soley at that position.
 

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Future 585;1496542 said:
Randy Moss will not get into the HOF unless he leads NE or another team to a Super Bowl win.

........which he will do this year.

This story is FAR from over.
 

YosemiteSam

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He deserves consideration without question.

If he drops 1,300 yards this season giving him 12k yards, and New England wins a superbowl, then he is a shoe-in HoFer.
 

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looking at the stats, I'd say he has a shot

over 600 career receptions, 10,700 yards, 101 TDs

and for a few years he was probably the best offensive threat in the game, and has a few Pro Bowls to his credit
 

Doomsday101

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I can hear Randy's acceptance speech now. Well I played the game hard, when I felt like it. I would go 100% unless the team was not that great and then why bother. I tried to be a team leader when I was not pouting. Thank you very much for this honor. While the man has the numbers to go to the HOF I don't think he is worthy of sitting on the same stage with the vast majority of men who are in the HOF
 
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