RB debate continues, R Rice vs. Felix Jones

Woods

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Felix Jones.

I got this from thehuddlereport.com, and I just wanted to post these two write-ups to see if the fan base agreed . . . .

Ray Rice RB Rutgers

STRENGTHS
Ray Rice is one of the most intelligent RB’s to come out in any draft. He has a very strong lower body to go along with excellent balance and quick feet in the hole. He is the only RB in this draft that understands how to set up his blocks for his Offensive lineman. He has good hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield and down the field with the best of them. He is great at reading defenses and blocking in blitz pick up. Ray has the bulk and body type to take the pounding at the next level. He has the speed, quickness and strength to run in between the tackles and to break it around end when a play breaks down. Ray will pick his way through a defense like a solder in a minefield and he will not make a mistake. He is a leader and makes the players around him better. Ray deserves to be a top ten pick in this draft and, in my book, Ray Rice and Darren McFadden have the same potential to impact at the next level.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE
Ray does not need to improve anything. He just needs to continue to grow as a human being. He cannot get any taller to satisfy all the experts who want to downgrade him because of his height. He cannot run any better for those who want to downgrade him for the lack of competition. I told you about Maurice Jones Drew (see Archives profile) and now I’m telling you about Ray Rice. If you continue not listen to what I tell you about these players, then you will be left behind just like all the other “experts”.

TALENT BOARD ROUND 1
Ray can play in any style of offense. He can play in a two back system or a one back system or a spread offense. He will be powerful when you need him to pick up those tough yards and he can pick up yardage in big chucks and get his team out of a deep hole in its own territory. Ray Rice is a franchise RB. The day after you draft him, he will walk onto the field, carry the ball one time and you can bet there will not be one person on that team that will not smile to themselves. They will smile because they will know that they finally have a franchise RB. Ray Rice does the grunt work all game long that RB’s have to do to be a success in the NFL. People are going to tell you that Ray is too small, or that he has taken a lot of pounding in college, or he did it against a lower level of competition. Then they are going to tell you that he doesn’t have the speed to take it to the house. All of this stuff is just crap! The difference is that Ray knows how to play his position and if he is on a team that has good blockers, the level of competition is a moot point. Ray knows how, and when, to cut. He is patient and waits for his blocks. He runs the sweep the way it is supposed to be run. He knows when to push the line of scrimmage to flatten out the LB’s angle so that his offensive lineman can get into a block and not have to reach and lunge to make their blocks. There are 2 former NFL Hall of Fame RB’s of which Ray reminds me. Both of these RB’s came out with the same nit picking nonsense that I am hearing about Ray. Thurman Thomas and Emmitt Smith both were considered as not being big enough, lacked speed and took too much of a pounding at the college level. Both of these RB’s had the intelligence and knew how to play the RB position just like Ray does. Ray will terminate all of the so called negatives that other “experts” come up with to downgrade him in this draft. That’s why I call him Ray (The Terminator) Rice. He is relentless and will do anything to destroy your defense all game long because he has all the weapons he needs to do it: intelligence, heart, work ethic and athletic talent.
 

Woods

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Felix Jones RB Arkansas

STRENGTHS Felix is a very fast RB. In fact, he might be the fastest RB in this draft. He is the type of player that can score from anywhere on the field at any time and on any play. He does a good job catching the ball out of the backfield and down the field. Felix does not need a lot of touches to impact in a game. He has done a solid job for his team playing the role of change up back. I feel that if he is used that same way at the next level, he will impact for the team that drafts him.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Felix runs way too upright and does not run strong between the tackles. He was used in a spread offense and is a change-up or systems RB. He does not show me much vision in the hole and right now, at the college level, he just out-runs everybody. Felix’s style of upright running lends itself to having a lot of injury concerns at the next level. Also, he is not a strong blocker. If he wants to be on the field in the NFL, he has to learn to block, read defenses and pick up the blitz. Right now, he is nowhere near ready for that assignment.

TALENT BOARD ROUND 2

I am not as high as most people are on Felix. In my mind, Felix can impact on special teams and as a change-up back, but he will not impact as a starting “carry the full load of the offense” RB in the NFL. If you want to use him the way Reggie Bush is used, then that makes sense to me; however, Reggie was bigger and much further along in football intelligence than Felix is right now. As a starting RB, I just think Felix will struggle. He is very fast, but he is going to have to learn how to use that speed at the next level to be effective. Today, he does not set up blocks, cut laterally or take the ball strong into the hole. He bounces everything to the outside rather than going through the hole strong and then bounce it to the outside. Felix has not had very many touches at the college level and although he has impacted at that level, he has had the benefit of doing it with fresh legs against opponents that are tired. I do see a team in the later part of the first round drafting Felix to be used as a change-up back, but not as a starting back. For example, I can see a team like Miami in the second round being a perfect fit to be pared up with Ronnie Brown or the Ravens drafting him. You see my point. Felix will impact and I do feel that he will be an exciting player, but I believe that if he is taken in the first round by a team that expects him to be their main RB to build their offense around, they will be disappointed. We all love to watch Felix run and when he does, it is very exciting, but the truth is this kid has not grown or improved his on the field intelligence and running style from one year to the next. If that hasn’t occurred at the college level, then I don’t see him learning, changing or improving at the next level. What you see is what you get with Felix and although he is fast, I don’t believe that having speed automatically makes you a starting RB in the NFL. I like this kid, but I would not draft him thinking that he is going to be able to handle a starting RB position for an NFL team. If he does then great, but for the purpose of this draft, I just think that is asking too much of him.
 

TellerMorrow34

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I like Jones over Rice, for us, simply because Rice is more of a power kind of guy who needs to really get 18+ touches a game to wear a defense down.

We already have our power guy, we need something more like Jones.
 

Woods

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From reading this board, it seems that most think that F Jones would be a great complementary back to MBIII. And I think he would.

But who is the better overall RB?

Wouldn't you draft the best RB available, or do you draft the best complementary RB available?

I would tend to draft the best RB available.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Thats pretty much where I had Jones but that writeup on Rice got my attention. Whats he say about Stewart?
 

TellerMorrow34

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That's a good question on complimentary vs. best overall.

I think, though, you always need someone that is a change of pace to your regular guy. You need someone like Jones with the homerun speed, more than you need another bruiser like Barber.
 

Woods

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FuzzyLumpkins;1944273 said:
Thats pretty much where I had Jones but that writeup on Rice got my attention. Whats he say about Stewart?

Yhea, I know Rice was highly regarded by all the "draft experts" a few months ago, but since then, the interest in him appears to be lagging a bit.
 

Woods

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BraveHeartFan;1944280 said:
That's a good question on complimentary vs. best overall.

I think, though, you always need someone that is a change of pace to your regular guy. You need someone like Jones with the homerun speed, more than you need another bruiser like Barber.

But to use a Round 1 pick on a complementary speed back?

Why not just target Tatem Bell, for example, in FA or use a Round 2 -4 pick on a speedster?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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BraveHeartFan;1944280 said:
That's a good question on complimentary vs. best overall.

I think, though, you always need someone that is a change of pace to your regular guy. You need someone like Jones with the homerun speed, more than you need another bruiser like Barber.

The writeup says Rice has the speed to get outside. i dont watch AAA football so i have no idea asi havent seen him play.
 

tomson75

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This guy really, really likes Ray Rice. Don't get me wrong, I like him too...but "doesn't need to improve anything"? I highly doubt that.

I'd be happy with Jones, Johnson, Rice, etc. I think there are 6-7 backs in this draft that would be an immediate upgrade over Julius.
 

TellerMorrow34

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Woods;1944285 said:
But to use a Round 1 pick on a complementary speed back?

Why not just target Tatem Bell, for example, in FA or use a Round 2 -4 pick on a speedster?

Excellent point as well. If we picked up a nice complementary speed back in FA then we dont have to draft one. I don't know if bell is the answer but I don't suppose he'd be any less of an option than Julius was this last year.

Of course this is a lot of speculation assuming Jones if for sure out of Dallas which, to me, is far from a forgone conclusion. I don't know how much interest he'll get elsewhere.
 

tomson75

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FuzzyLumpkins;1944286 said:
The writeup says Rice has the speed to get outside. i dont watch AAA football so i have no idea asi havent seen him play.

AAA/ lmao. He did at his previous level of play. Whether or not he can do it in the NFL isn't fact. Yet. He looks like a slightly faster Emmitt when he runs IMO...so take that for what its worth.
 

TellerMorrow34

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tomson75;1944302 said:
He did at his previous level of play. Whether or not he can do it in the NFL isn't fact. Yet. He looks like a slightly faster Emmitt when he runs IMO...so take that for what its worth.

I do know he's suppose to have some speed but he certainly doesn't have Felix jones or Chris Johnson kinds of speed.
 

Woods

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FuzzyLumpkins;1944273 said:
Thats pretty much where I had Jones but that writeup on Rice got my attention. Whats he say about Stewart?

That one hasn't been done yet. I'll let you know when it's completed.
 

Rack

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Woods;1944255 said:
Felix Jones.

I got this from thehuddlereport.com, and I just wanted to post these two write-ups to see if the fan base agreed . . . .

Ray Rice RB Rutgers

STRENGTHS
Ray Rice is one of the most intelligent RB’s to come out in any draft. He has a very strong lower body to go along with excellent balance and quick feet in the hole. He is the only RB in this draft that understands how to set up his blocks for his Offensive lineman. He has good hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield and down the field with the best of them. He is great at reading defenses and blocking in blitz pick up. Ray has the bulk and body type to take the pounding at the next level. He has the speed, quickness and strength to run in between the tackles and to break it around end when a play breaks down. Ray will pick his way through a defense like a solder in a minefield and he will not make a mistake. He is a leader and makes the players around him better. Ray deserves to be a top ten pick in this draft and, in my book, Ray Rice and Darren McFadden have the same potential to impact at the next level.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE
Ray does not need to improve anything. He just needs to continue to grow as a human being. He cannot get any taller to satisfy all the experts who want to downgrade him because of his height. He cannot run any better for those who want to downgrade him for the lack of competition. I told you about Maurice Jones Drew (see Archives profile) and now I’m telling you about Ray Rice. If you continue not listen to what I tell you about these players, then you will be left behind just like all the other “experts”.

TALENT BOARD ROUND 1
Ray can play in any style of offense. He can play in a two back system or a one back system or a spread offense. He will be powerful when you need him to pick up those tough yards and he can pick up yardage in big chucks and get his team out of a deep hole in its own territory. Ray Rice is a franchise RB. The day after you draft him, he will walk onto the field, carry the ball one time and you can bet there will not be one person on that team that will not smile to themselves. They will smile because they will know that they finally have a franchise RB. Ray Rice does the grunt work all game long that RB’s have to do to be a success in the NFL. People are going to tell you that Ray is too small, or that he has taken a lot of pounding in college, or he did it against a lower level of competition. Then they are going to tell you that he doesn’t have the speed to take it to the house. All of this stuff is just crap! The difference is that Ray knows how to play his position and if he is on a team that has good blockers, the level of competition is a moot point. Ray knows how, and when, to cut. He is patient and waits for his blocks. He runs the sweep the way it is supposed to be run. He knows when to push the line of scrimmage to flatten out the LB’s angle so that his offensive lineman can get into a block and not have to reach and lunge to make their blocks. There are 2 former NFL Hall of Fame RB’s of which Ray reminds me. Both of these RB’s came out with the same nit picking nonsense that I am hearing about Ray. Thurman Thomas and Emmitt Smith both were considered as not being big enough, lacked speed and took too much of a pounding at the college level. Both of these RB’s had the intelligence and knew how to play the RB position just like Ray does. Ray will terminate all of the so called negatives that other “experts” come up with to downgrade him in this draft. That’s why I call him Ray (The Terminator) Rice. He is relentless and will do anything to destroy your defense all game long because he has all the weapons he needs to do it: intelligence, heart, work ethic and athletic talent.

Sounds good to me. He should be available for one of our picks too.
 

tomson75

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BraveHeartFan;1944306 said:
I do know he's suppose to have some speed but he certainly doesn't have Felix jones or Chris Johnson kinds of speed.

From what little I've seen from Chris Johnson, NO RB has his type of speed. Felix is faster than Rice, however.

Johnson needs to learn how to hold on to the football better...and that can be taught.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Woods;1944310 said:
That one hasn't been done yet. I'll let you know when it's completed.

Cool I have seen him play some and came away impressed but i catch maybe 3 NCAA games a year.
 

khiladi

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He doesn't seem to have break-away speed. But he does have a 90 yard TD run this year, and that was against Ball State.

The difference though is he seems to be incredibly quick in the first two lines of defense. He moves really well in traffic, and maintains his balance. He seems to have really good vision and patience, something lacking in Julius Jones.

The point is, I don't know if this is really a change-up back for Marion. He seems to be more shifty, but not that type of guy who is a change-up back.
 

Woods

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khiladi;1944326 said:
He doesn't seem to have break-away speed. But he does have a 90 yard TD run this year, and that was against Ball State.

The difference though is he seems to be incredibly quick in the first two lines of defense. He moves really well in traffic, and maintains his balance. He seems to have really good vision and patience, something lacking in Julius Jones.

The point is, I don't know if this is really a change-up back for Marion. He seems to be more shifty, but not that type of guy who is a change-up back.

What I'd be looking for in a RB behind MBIII is a couple of things,

1. In case MBIII got injured, is the back-up capable of starting?

2. Can our offense still run all the plays and function smoothly when MBIII is resting on the bench? Can the guy get the tough yards, or are the drives going to stall?
 

montgod

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tomson75;1944295 said:
This guy really, really likes Ray Rice. Don't get me wrong, I like him too...but "doesn't need to improve anything"? I highly doubt that.

I'd be happy with Jones, Johnson, Rice, etc. I think there are 6-7 backs in this draft that would be an immediate upgrade over Julius.

Interesting you say this. I wonder what the write-up was from the huddlereport on Julius when he came out?

Not a Julius fan... but you never know what you get until they play in the NFL.
 
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