Report: Dak Prescott counteroffer higher than Carson Wentz deal

[CowboyRoy]

Salary cap be damned, let’s just overpay Dak!

No, its more like "Trolls be damned, pay him what he's earned".

 

[CowboyRoy]

There go those goalposts.

Tell me, do you deny that Wentz had a better passer rating than Dak in 2017 and 2018?

Why not 2017? How many games did Wentz play in 2017 and 18?

 

[CowboyRoy]

Dak inherited the best team for a rookie starter in NFL history. By a country mile.

A good one I would agree.

But he also inherited one of the worst coaching staffs in the NFL. HE also inherited an aging bunch of pass catchers.

Really the ONLY things that were top notch were the Oline and Zeke. Defense was nothing to crow about either.

How about the offense that Mahones fell into THIS year? Better than Dallas in 2017. And much better coaching and scheme.

 

[StuckMojo]

No, its more like "Trolls be damned, pay him what he's earned".

So I’m a troll because I don’t want to overpay Dak? I don’t want to overpay any player!!

 

[CowboyRoy]

So I’m a troll because I don’t want to overpay Dak? I don’t want to overpay any player!!

You don't sound like a troll.

Its this overpay thing that doesn't jive with me. New contracts by nature are overpaying. The new contract sets the new market and the next guy gets a bigger one. And with QB's, as long as you fall in that general category, its the way it goes.

Just like in a few years Dak wont even be a top 10 salary. The other new contracts will have passed him by. At that point, it will probably be a bargain. Romo's salary was no different.

 

[Johnny23]

Please show me where there are in fact "on record" because I very much need to see this specific statement. I have seen an Adam Schefter report suggesting a $200 million deal in 2020, but have seen no indication whatsoever from the Chiefs organization, much less anything outright saying $40 million a year.

The last thing that I saw was a report that the Chiefs would pay him a deal that could be up to 40 million a year. It was on Good Morning Football and Mike Garafolo(sp) and Ian Rappaport were reporting at the time. You can take whatever "rapsheet" says with a grain of salt though.

 

[Alexander]

How about the offense that Mahones fell into THIS year? Better than Dallas in 2017. And much better coaching and scheme.

Mahomes had a horrific defense. He could dig them out due to arm talent. Prescott can't be that kind of QB, sorry.

 

[Stash]

The last thing that I saw was a report that the Chiefs would pay him a deal that could be up to 40 million a year. It was on Good Morning Football and Mike Garafolo(sp) and Ian Rappaport were reporting at the time. You can take whatever "rapsheet" says with a grain of salt though.

Definitely, and speaking for myself, I'll believe that the Chiefs are rushing to pay $40 million a year early when I see it. They have no incentive to rush into setting the highest end of the quarterback market.

 

[Johnny23]

Definitely, and speaking for myself, I'll believe that the Chiefs are rushing to pay $40 million a year early when I see it. They have no incentive to rush into setting the highest end of the quarterback market.

I agree . I get that he is MVP and had a Warner and Marino like season while winning MVP but pump the breaks a bit. NFL Network was reporting players they're letting go is preparing for paying him an extension. At the very least let's have this conversation next off season even though the kid looks good. It was a historic season.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Mahomes had a horrific defense. He could dig them out due to arm talent. Prescott can't be that kind of QB, sorry.

So Prescott isn't a once in a generational type talent like Mahomes? Did you think of that all yourself?

I said nothing about Prescott being a Mahones. Dak has no hope of being as good as Mahones.

 

[gimmesix]

Why not 2017? How many games did Wentz play in 2017 and 18?

I'm not sure what you mean. I posted the QB ratings and QBR in 2017 and Wentz's was clearly better. I'm not sure what how many games he played has to do with QB rating, unless you assume that his rating would have gone down with more games played.

If you want to talk about injury history, you're getting into a different discussion. Wentz's injury problems the last two years would have concerned me to the point that I would not have extended him this year.

But if you are arguing value, you've got to include the whole picture, and there are areas where Wentz's numbers have been superior.

 

[Gaede]

So I’m a troll because I don’t want to overpay Dak? I don’t want to overpay any player!!

What do you care what the players make?

We were in cap hall when Romo retired and still managed to hit the playoffs 2 out of three years, all while paying scrubs in free agency.

 

[StuckMojo]

What do you care what the players make?

We were in cap hall when Romo retired and still managed to hit the playoffs 2 out of three years, all while paying scrubs in free agency.

I care because I don’t want to be in salary cap hell again.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm not sure what you mean. I posted the QB ratings and QBR in 2017 and Wentz's was clearly better. I'm not sure what how many games he played has to do with QB rating, unless you assume that his rating would have gone down with more games played.

If you want to talk about injury history, you're getting into a different discussion. Wentz's injury problems the last two years would have concerned me to the point that I would not have extended him this year.

But if you are arguing value, you've got to include the whole picture, and there are areas where Wentz's numbers have been superior.

Meant 2016. Obviously you omit that because it doesn't suit your agenda.

2017 before he got hurt, Wentz was off the chain. Had something like 19 TD's in 7 games. That version of Wentz was better than Dak. 2018, the first half of the year Dak struggled. The reasons why are well documented. The 2nd half of the year, you would be hard pressed to find a better QB.

If both are health completely, I would lean towards Wentz. But given the first 3 years I go with Dak. The guy is tough, strong, and up until now durable. Wentz cant even stay on the field.

 

[gimmesix]

Meant 2016. Obviously you omit that because it doesn't suit your agenda.

2017 before he got hurt, Wentz was off the chain. Had something like 19 TD's in 7 games. That version of Wentz was better than Dak. 2018, the first half of the year Dak struggled. The reasons why are well documented. The 2nd half of the year, you would be hard pressed to find a better QB.

If both are health completely, I would lean towards Wentz. But given the first 3 years I go with Dak. The guy is tough, strong, and up until now durable. Wentz cant even stay on the field.

I mentioned 2016 several times throughout this thread. Dak was clearly better, but Wentz's QB rating has gone up the past couple of years while Dak's has dropped into the average range overall. Yes, he improved it the second half of the year to where he was back over 100, but the argument earlier was that Prescott should get more because he's the better QB. The fact that Wentz has the better QBR and QB rating the past couple of years casts doubt on that for negotiating purposes.

That's really all I'm addressing. It isn't whether I would take Prescott or Wentz. At this point, I don't know if I would have done a deal with either. The health factor concerns me about Wentz, and there are some questions about his play in the clutch and those worm-burners he throws. With Dak, it's just a question of seeing if he can put together another full year like he did in 2016.

The post I was initially addressing (I believe) was Wentz being the floor for Dak's next contract. And how I believe that's the case, but that Dallas shouldn't pay Dak more than Wentz got because there are some areas where Wentz has superior numbers. This is not an agenda, it is an accurate observation of the facts. (Note that I have mentioned that there are clearly areas where Dak is superior to Wentz as well.)

Only those who get defensive about any "negative" observation about Prescott are taking this out of context. I think some people are far too sensitive about Dak/Wentz comparisons. Frankly, I'd throw Goff in here, too. I wouldn't give him a new contract yet, either.

This was my original post on the subject, which led to me explaining why I don't believe Dak's side can successfully argue that he deserves to be paid more than Dak.

Wentz arguably has not accomplished more than Dak has at this point and is a peer having been drafted the same year. Wilson set the bar because he's more accomplished than Prescott. Wentz set the floor because he's not.

I don't think at this point, though, that Prescott's side can successfully argue that he deserves to be paid more than the floor.

When a couple of posters didn't like that, I explained that there are some areas where Wentz has superior numbers to Prescott (illustrated by his QB ratings in 2017 and 2018), and some people simply can't handle the truth. If I'm negotiating with Dak's agents, those QBR and QB ratings are why I would argue that Prescott should not get more than Wentz got per year. If I'm Prescott's side, I'm saying he should based on durability and the fact that he has played in the playoffs, including winning one game.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I mentioned 2016 several times throughout this thread. Dak was clearly better, but Wentz's QB rating has gone up the past couple of years while Dak's has dropped into the average range overall. Yes, he improved it the second half of the year to where he was back over 100, but the argument earlier was that Prescott should get more because he's the better QB. The fact that Wentz has the better QBR and QB rating the past couple of years casts doubt on that for negotiating purposes.

That's really all I'm addressing. It isn't whether I would take Prescott or Wentz. At this point, I don't know if I would have done a deal with either. The health factor concerns me about Wentz, and there are some questions about his play in the clutch and those worm-burners he throws. With Dak, it's just a question of seeing if he can put together another full year like he did in 2016.

The post I was initially addressing (I believe) was Wentz being the floor for Dak's next contract. And how I believe that's the case, but that Dallas shouldn't pay Dak more than Wentz got because there are some areas where Wentz has superior numbers. This is not an agenda, it is an accurate observation of the facts. (Note that I have mentioned that there are clearly areas where Dak is superior to Wentz as well.)

Only those who get defensive about any "negative" observation about Prescott are taking this out of context. I think some people are far too sensitive about Dak/Wentz comparisons. Frankly, I'd throw Goff in here, too. I wouldn't give him a new contract yet, either.

This was my original post on the subject, which led to me explaining why I don't believe Dak's side can successfully argue that he deserves to be paid more than Dak.



When a couple of posters didn't like that, I explained that there are some areas where Wentz has superior numbers to Prescott (illustrated by his QB ratings in 2017 and 2018), and some people simply can't handle the truth. If I'm negotiating with Dak's agents, those QBR and QB ratings are why I would argue that Prescott should not get more than Wentz got per year. If I'm Prescott's side, I'm saying he should based on durability and the fact that he has played in the playoffs, including winning one game.

The first 24 games of Daks career and the last 8 Dak has been amazing. His QB rating is over 100.

There was a 16 game stretch in the middle where he didn't play so well. However, this is easily tracked to the downward spiral and injuries to the Oline as well as the Zeke suspension and the receiver by committee nonsense.

In other words, the team around Dak got much worse. That is going to lower the QB rating of any QB let alone a 2nd and 3rd year guy.

 

[gimmesix]

The first 24 games of Daks career and the last 8 Dak has been amazing. His QB rating is over 100.

There was a 16 game stretch in the middle where he didn't play so well. However, this is easily tracked to the downward spiral and injuries to the Oline as well as the Zeke suspension and the receiver by committee nonsense.

In other words, the team around Dak got much worse. That is going to lower the QB rating of any QB let alone a 2nd and 3rd year guy.

The only problem I have with using that logic is that you then have to apply it to every team. Dak had the better team around him in 2016 than Wentz did, so do we then upgrade his QB rating?

I'm a numbers guy, so I go by the numbers as they are not as they ideally could be because what-ifs can be made to work favorably for any player. The actual numbers as far as QBR and QB rating go are better for Wentz in 2017 and 2018. That's simply why I believe Dak shouldn't get a higher contract.

If I'm looking at it as a negotiator, I would say Wentz got $32 million per year because his rating has been better than 100 the past two years and is on the rise. Dak, you had a great rookie year, but your overall QB rating has been average the past two years, not cracking 100. I think the other arguments Dak has in his favor are why he'll end up getting about the same amount as Wentz.

This is a peer comparison, and Dak compares well with Wentz, which is why I don't believe he'll be paid less. I don't believe he'll be paid more because of those statistical areas that favor Wentz. This should be a very simple concept to see because of the numbers that are there, but some are apparently blinded to it. Or maybe I'm just not explaining it well.

(Not saying that's you ... just basing it on some of the responses earlier in this thread.)

 

[Hadenough]

I mentioned 2016 several times throughout this thread. Dak was clearly better, but Wentz's QB rating has gone up the past couple of years while Dak's has dropped into the average range overall. Yes, he improved it the second half of the year to where he was back over 100, but the argument earlier was that Prescott should get more because he's the better QB. The fact that Wentz has the better QBR and QB rating the past couple of years casts doubt on that for negotiating purposes.

That's really all I'm addressing. It isn't whether I would take Prescott or Wentz. At this point, I don't know if I would have done a deal with either. The health factor concerns me about Wentz, and there are some questions about his play in the clutch and those worm-burners he throws. With Dak, it's just a question of seeing if he can put together another full year like he did in 2016.

The post I was initially addressing (I believe) was Wentz being the floor for Dak's next contract. And how I believe that's the case, but that Dallas shouldn't pay Dak more than Wentz got because there are some areas where Wentz has superior numbers. This is not an agenda, it is an accurate observation of the facts. (Note that I have mentioned that there are clearly areas where Dak is superior to Wentz as well.)

Only those who get defensive about any "negative" observation about Prescott are taking this out of context. I think some people are far too sensitive about Dak/Wentz comparisons. Frankly, I'd throw Goff in here, too. I wouldn't give him a new contract yet, either.

This was my original post on the subject, which led to me explaining why I don't believe Dak's side can successfully argue that he deserves to be paid more than Dak.



When a couple of posters didn't like that, I explained that there are some areas where Wentz has superior numbers to Prescott (illustrated by his QB ratings in 2017 and 2018), and some people simply can't handle the truth. If I'm negotiating with Dak's agents, those QBR and QB ratings are why I would argue that Prescott should not get more than Wentz got per year. If I'm Prescott's side, I'm saying he should based on durability and the fact that he has played in the playoffs, including winning one game.

This is probably the best post ive read regarding Dak, Wentz and Goff. I dont think I would of given Wentz a contract like he got either. His health is a big concern. And your right about Dak his numbers arent steady and he has some flaws in his game but he is durable. When you look at Goff I dont hear about the Rams rushing to get him signed. In my opinon unless its a team friendly deal, when a QB gets paid elite money the chances of winning a SB diminish because regardless of the QB he doesnt have the supporting cast. Now the better the QB is that helps but he still has to have a great core of players around him on offense and defense.

 

[Whirlwin]

So you want Dallas to overpay?

The rookie in training took this franchise to the playoffs two out of three seasons. Overpay .

 

[LACowboysFan1]

It appears to me the people wanting the Cowboys to let Dak play out his contract are taking that approach because they just don't like Dak, and are hoping he falls off or at best doesn't improve, so they will have a reason to look to replace him.

Really doesn't have much to do with the money, they just don't like him. And I understand those views, just don't agree with them.

Though I'm also pretty sure some of those posters aren't Cowboys fans, but Philly or other fans who know if Dak stays the Cowboys will be winning the division, playoff games, etc., and their team won't be doing that.

And before anyone starts yelling "How dare you say I'm not a Cowboys fan", simmer down, if you really are a Cowboys fan it doesn't matter what anybody says