Rising stars, core stars and exiting stage left

[Tenkamenin]

Was Brett Maher really that unreliable? I thought he did well. I think we're just used to Dan Bailey.

Bailey spoiled us......

 

[Stash]

You spent the first part of this thread arguing Jack Crawford is a better player based on stats but when presented with stats argue Sheldon Richardson is better, despite them.

I proved my point on Jack Crawford. You yourself admitted that. As for Richardson, do you really need a history lesson on who he is and what he's done? Or to compare him to Tyrone Crawford? If so, let me know and I'll oblige. But spoiler alert, it won't look better for you.

For what it's worth, I agree Sheldon is better, but I don't think he's worth an extra 2M to the cap in 2019 better.

So now you're going to get cheap? When we're paying Crawford $9 million to be a rotation guy it's not so bad, but $2 million more for a proven top player and a sure starter is too much?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Oh, you most certainly are. Moving your own goal posts with every comment you make.



No it doesn't. And neither you nor anyone making that claim has backed up what you're claiming with any numbers to justify it. It's a flippant, offhand, unsupported comment. And it's false.



I'm certainly not disagreeing with that. But getting cap relief from Crawford helps in upgrading, it doesn't hurt it.

But this team is not hurting for cap space. Not only that but what do you think 7 million a year gets you? What caliber of player?

 

[Stash]

But this team is not hurting for cap space. Not only that but what do you think 7 million a year gets you? What caliber of player?

$8 million got the Vikings Richardson, that's the point!

A first round talent, rookie of the year player, and former Pro Bowler. Tell me any of those things that apply to Tyrone Crawford, who cost the Cowboys more?

 

[jterrell]

Rising Stars (young stars still rising)
1. Leighton Vander Esch
2. Amari Cooper --24/25 at WR is just not hitting peak. Might content to lead league next year in yardage.
3. Jaylon Smith
4. Michael Gallup -- Awesome overall athletic and positional skills. Needs to learn nuances of NFL and the offense specifically.
5. Dak --Both a rising star who is still improving and a core piece
6. CWill -- Had a few rough moments versus massive dudes inside but movement skills are elite for an OG and he reminds me a lot of Travis Frederick.

Faithful Core Stars (Players the team is committed to and built around)
1. Ezekiel Elliott --Elite player that is key to what we do. We need to be smarter with how we use him and how he rests IMHO.
2. Tyron Smith --Injury bug is hitting him but he is still elite when healthy. Was dominate late.
3. Dak Prescott --Both a rising star who is still improving and a core piece
4. Zack Martin --Best OG in league and might not improve because he is the ceiling.
5. Byron Jones --Teams avoided him much of the season and he's just learning this CB technique.
6. Travis Frederick --Prolly should bump down but like Jaylon you don't bet against dudes with this much character and love for the game.He starts week 1.
7. Chidobe Awuzie --Already a solid CB2 and could move up but this level he can maintain for a 5-6 year stretch given his physical tools.
8. Anthony Brown --Quality depth CB who battles and will make plays on occasion.
9. Xavier Woods --Young safety may never be elite but he's a quality starting safety and should be one long term.

Exiting Stage Left-(Players we will say goodbye to in 2019)
1. Cole Beasley- All comes down to cost. This is Beasley's last contract and he will want to get paid of course. Would LOVE Cole back on a 6-7M deal.
2. Sean Lee- Would be take a lesser role and salary? Not likely but perhaps it can be finessed along.
3. Damien Wilson- LB market has been nuts recently and he is likely looking for a full-time starting role.
4. David Irving- Can't fix want to. Hoping some team offers him large money to save us form ourselves here.
5. Tavon Austin- Was a good attempt to add team speed but too limited in what he can do and with Cooper and Gallup WR speed isn't really an issue.
6. Rico Gathers- Looks like an OT trying to play TE when receiving and a TE trying to play OT when blocking.
7. Terrance Williams- Gave us nothing when he badly needing something. As a Dallas area kid always hoped best for him but a final season off in guaranteed money retirement was a bad goodbye.

Question Marks
1. Demarcus Law --Stud in every sense but if he wants top 3 DE money that's a really tough call.
2. Allen Hurns- Tough, tough deal. Great team dude but costs is high and performance was mediocre.
3. Geoff Swaim- Starting TE earn a lot of money and he's not likely to get that here.
4. Taco Charlton- Best position is SDE. If DLaw walks he likely is a starter but if DLaw signs long term he is basically a forever back up.
5. Randy Gregory- Still really more a pass rush guy than every down player but has added size and strength. A full and fully available off-season here might see him truly soar.
6. Jourdan Lewis- is he trade bait or a keeper if we can’t keep Byron Jones?
7. La'el Collins- Quality RT but not worth elite money and if you have a R2 and Cam Fleming at RT you may want to do that and get OL spending under control.
8. Jeff Heath- Can you find an upgrade in draft or FA? He's a great team dude who has outplayed any expectation but he is not a plus starting Safety and is likely maxed out.

 

[conner01]

Was Brett Maher really that unreliable? I thought he did well. I think we're just used to Dan Bailey.

He was middle of the pack
He will get some competition in camp but he’s likely coming back

 

[jterrell]

$8 million got the Vikings Richardson, that's the point!

A first round talent, rookie of the year player, and former Pro Bowler. Tell me any of those things that apply to Tyrone Crawford, who cost the Cowboys more?

Stash you are tripping with this one man.
Richardson was a total head case that is on his 3rd team in 3 years while Crawford is a team leader and great dude.
Richardson’s play in his one year in Seattle is open to all kinds of interpretation. He played and started in all but one game, but had career-lows in sacks (one) and quarterback hits (seven).

TCraw is probably overpaid but somewhat minimally so now for a guy that can play 3 positions for you.
If you can extend him a few years to lower cap hit that is the way I'd go.

Any starting caliber DL on a 2nd or 3rd contract is likely paid insanely.

Richardson is underpaid because he was found a bit loony.

 

[Risen Star]

What the hell is Dorance Armstrong doing on that list?

 

[tm1119]

$8 million got the Vikings Richardson, that's the point!

A first round talent, rookie of the year player, and former Pro Bowler. Tell me any of those things that apply to Tyrone Crawford, who cost the Cowboys more?

I feel like you’re purposefully ignoring the fact that Crawford will count for $4.2M against next year’s cap regardless. So you’re throwing an extra $5M into a pool of $60M of cap space and downgrading an already weak position group.

You’re also purposefully ignoring the fact that THE COWBOYS DO NOT SIGN FREE AGENTS. Saying that the Cowboys signing Sheldon Richardson this off season would be a pipe dream is actually doing the term pipe dream a disservice.

I’m definitely not arguing the fact that Crawford CAN/SHOULD be upgraded. But we don’t have anybody on the roster currently, and we certainly won’t spend $ in free agency at DT. So what’s your solution? Save $5M in cap space to make yourself warm and fuzzy at night that Tyrone Crawford is no longer slightly overpaid?

 

[Stash]

Stash you are tripping with this one man.
Richardson was a total head case that is on his 3rd team in 3 years while Crawford is a team leader and great dude.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not comparing the two players in terms of character. But after some early issues, Richardson looks to have put his bonehead days behind him. He looks to have receiver his wake up call.

Richardson’s play in his one year in Seattle is open to all kinds of interpretation. He played and started in all but one game, but had career-lows in sacks (one) and quarterback hits (seven).

Fair enough, but word was the Seattle very much wanted him back, Minnesota just outbid them. And he had 4.5 sacks in Minnesota from his defensive tackle position this year if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, Crawford got what? .5 more? Playing in an obvious pass rushing role?

TCraw is probably overpaid but somewhat minimally so now for a guy that can play 3 positions for you.
If you can extend him a few years to lower cap hit that is the way I'd go.

Any starting caliber DL on a 2nd or 3rd contract is likely paid insanely.

Richardson is underpaid because he was found a bit loony.

Sure, he can "play 3 positions", but can he play any of them well? He certainly has no business being lined up at RDE, and only the biggest homer would argue otherwise. Is he great against the run? Nope. And worse if he's outside. Again, look at this most recent game, he was an embarrassment out there.

So essentially, we have a rotational guy that gives you a little juice as an interior pass rusher.

 

[tyke1doe]

I think Gallup will be more than a #2 receiver. He could have had a monster year if Dak could just connect with him on deep balls. He had his defender beat SEVERAL times throughout the season, but Dak either missed him or overthrew him.
Maybe another camp will get him and Dak on the same page.

 

[ShiningStar]

it sould come down to the new coach or coaches being promoted and the first thing tey say is "we are doing whats best for the team, not who we feel for"

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

$8 million got the Vikings Richardson, that's the point!

A first round talent, rookie of the year player, and former Pro Bowler. Tell me any of those things that apply to Tyrone Crawford, who cost the Cowboys more?

I didn’t watch him play so forgive my ignorance but looking at his stats.....they look comparable to the stats Crawford put up. So essentially 8 million gets you another smaller defensive tackle as opposed to a big run stuffing dt?

 

[Nightman]

I feel like you’re purposefully ignoring the fact that Crawford will count for $4.2M against next year’s cap regardless. So you’re throwing an extra $5M into a pool of $60M of cap space and downgrading an already weak position group.

You’re also purposefully ignoring the fact that THE COWBOYS DO NOT SIGN FREE AGENTS. Saying that the Cowboys signing Sheldon Richardson this off season would be a pipe dream is actually doing the term pipe dream a disservice.

I’m definitely not arguing the fact that Crawford CAN/SHOULD be upgraded. But we don’t have anybody on the roster currently, and we certainly won’t spend $ in free agency at DT. So what’s your solution? Save $5M in cap space to make yourself warm and fuzzy at night that Tyrone Crawford is no longer slightly overpaid?

TCrawford costs 3.1m next year no matter what..... if we keep him we have to add another 7m

The 7m is the only factor that matters...is he worth it or not and can we upgrade him

If we can get a stud for 10-15m I would do it..... if not I would keep him and Draft a DT

 

[ConceptCoop]

Our roster is freaking loaded. We're only a few guys stepping up away from being a top tier team. If Gallup, C.Williams, Taco, and Dak make strides this off-season - watch out!

 

[jrumann59]

As we begin to sift through the end of this season and look forward to next season, here’s an early assessment of our roster for next year. Who’s a rising star, who the core is and who will probably be leaving.

Rising Stars (young stars still rising)
1. Leighton Vander Esch- he’s 21 and maybe the cornerstone of a great D for years to come.
2. Michael Gallup- came on like gangbusters late in season. He's a solid #2 receiver and still improving.
3. Jaylon Smith- became what we hoped he would be and he’s still getting better.
4. Amari Cooper- can’t believe he’s just 24. A stud we must sign.
5. Dorrance Armstrong- a surprisingly good 4th rounder who I think will emerge as a possible starter in 2019.

Faithful Core Stars (Players the team is committed to and built around)
1. Ezekiel Elliott- best player on the team
2. DeMarcus Law-sign the man
3. Dak Prescott- he needs a lot of coaching, and yes, he’s not great. But you can win with him.
4. Zack Martin- best G in NFL
5. Byron Jones- now a star at CB- can we keep him?
6. Travis Frederick- best C in NFL before Barre Syndrome afflicted him- is he still great?
7. Chidobe Awuzie- emerged this year. Solid if not spectacular.
8. Amari Cooper- I listed him above as a rising star because he’s 24, but he’s also part of the core.

Exiting Stage Left-(Players we will say goodbye to in 2019)
1. Cole Beasley- he’s not a top 25 WR in this league and will be 30.
2. Sean Lee- Once the cornerstone of the defense, he can no longer be counted on because of injuries.
3. Damien Wilson- decent LB and ST player who can be replaced in draft for less money.
4. Tyrone Crawford- solid player who’s been a leader. But he’s too expensive and often injured.
5. David Irving- you can’t fix crazy.
6. Brett Maher- anytime the word “unreliable” is associated with a K....
7. Tavon Austin- too expensive, too fragile.
8. Rico “the Legend” Gathers- the future HOFer can’t catch a cold or remember plays.
9. Terrance Williams- who?

Question Marks
1. Tyron Smith- the back injury won’t get better and now has knee and elbow problems. Is he in free fall?
2. Allen Hurns- even before his gruesome injury, he was underwhelming.
3. Geoff Swaim- decent but often hurt
4. Taco Charleton- the bust term is creeping in
5. Randy Gregory- showed flashes of brilliance but is always one drug test away from a ban
6. Blake Jarwin- came on at the end of year. But is he really that good?
7. Jourdan Lewis- is he trade bait or a keeper if we can’t keep Byron Jones?

Who’s on your list? You can’t keep everyone.

Tyron Smith is hurt more than crawford.

 

[ClappingCarrot]

What's everyone's opinion on keeping Maher?

I would definitely add Robbie Gould this offseason while searching for the next big thing. That dude has been money since Chicago cut him.

 

[Crown Royal]

TCrawford costs 3.1m next year no matter what..... if we keep him we have to add another 7m

The 7m is the only factor that matters...is he worth it or not and can we upgrade him

If we can get a stud for 10-15m I would do it..... if not I would keep him and Draft a DT

Grady Jarrett and Suh are the two "big names" to watch in free agency, but Suh may retire and I can't see Atlanta letting Jarrett go without franchising him.

 

[ConceptCoop]

What's everyone's opinion on keeping Maher?

I would definitely add Robbie Gould this offseason while searching for the next big thing. That dude has been money since Chicago cut him.

I'm actually fine with Maher. If there is an upgrade that makes sense, of course we should do that. But I don't think it's a glaring need. He's at least slightly above average, right?

 

[jterrell]

I think Gallup will be more than a #2 receiver. He could have had a monster year if Dak could just connect with him on deep balls. He had his defender beat SEVERAL times throughout the season, but Dak either missed him or overthrew him.
Maybe another camp will get him and Dak on the same page.

Gallup is a WR2 here for 5-6 years because he is not replacing Cooper.
And let's be honest, Gallup needs to get better in every phase of playing the position.
He needs to recognize defenses better, needs to catch the ball better and he needs to get stronger with his route-running.

His double move deep attack is very similar to Taco's spin.
It was so effective in college he didn't need anything else but now he must add to his game.

His 48% catch rate was among the worst in the league and Cooper/Beasley both operated at ~70%.
That drop in percentage held the offense back as a whole.
Gallup has to function as a more reliable player next season as WR2 and he almost certainly will but nay fan trying to pass blame for Dak for his performance is simply wrong.
Dak not only has measurable with the other WRs which far exceed what he did with Gallup but his completion % are above average at every distance until you get to 45+ air yards and then barely dip below league average.
Gallup on the other hand has a low catch % at every level.