Romo vs Staubach and Aikman

[PA Cowboy Fan]

And Romo has benefitted from never having to play the great defense's that teams had before free agency started and teams became watered down. The rules protecting the QB has helped him, because with his injury history, he couldn't survive one season of hits like Troy took his rookie season. Romo's receivers also have rules that keeps them from being roughed up. You keep putting Troy down for the last few years of his career, but he wouldn't have been allowed to play in the current NFL with all the concussions that he had. If you want to know how Troy would play in today's game, you can rest assured that he would have been on the same level as Brady or Manning. You know, the level above Romo.

That's what people don't get, By 2000 Aikman was done. Everyone could see it. And it was because of all the hits he took. I don't know how many games he played with concussions. If Tony got hit like Aikman did, I doubt he would have played as long as he has.

 

[Miller]

And Romo has benefitted from never having to play the great defense's that teams had before free agency started and teams became watered down. The rules protecting the QB has helped him, because with his injury history, he couldn't survive one season of hits like Troy took his rookie season. Romo's receivers also have rules that keeps them from being roughed up. You keep putting Troy down for the last few years of his career, but he wouldn't have been allowed to play in the current NFL with all the concussions that he had. If you want to know how Troy would play in today's game, you can rest assured that he would have been on the same level as Brady or Manning. You know, the level above Romo.

Very well said. People want to put Romo in the Troy era but if plug and play was reality Troy, in a league where WRs ran untouched and QBs couldn't be hit, would tear up teams with his arm and accuracy. In his era getting hit in the chin and head was the norm.

 

[khiladi]

You attempting to compare the 90s Cowboys team to other Super Bowl winning teams of the 90s is just, it's sad. None of them compare, champ. Young didn't have a team like the Cowboys, neither did Favre.

Show me a team comparable to the Cowboys: One of the best O-lines in history, great defense, arguably best RB, HOF WR, good TE and coaching staff. I will wait.

The 92 Cowboys weren't expected to win the SB and SF 49ers were actually favored that season, if I remember correctly. That's why the Cowboys played in Candlestick. Against Buffalo, the story-line was that with the miraculous comeback, Kelly was finally going to get it done.

The Cowboys ascension came out like a hurricane. Even the next year, many teams were favoring the 49ers.

Looking back you can say they were the 'most stacked', but that's not what it was at the time.

 

[khiladi]

Kelly and Moon played in the K-Gun and Run and Shoot, which are basically flavors of the modern spread passing games. Thurman Thomas was also used a lot out of the backfield. But they played in the AFC and were thoroughly destroyed when they played the legitimate defenses of the NFC, where DBs could smother WRs.

Jim Kelly has a TOTAL of 2, 400 yard passing games, one in the regular season and one in the playoffs. Matt Schaub has 4 games of over 400 yards passing. Matt Schaub couldn't touch the dust on Kelly's shoes.

If anybody doesn't think this era inflates stats, they are out of their mind.

Only 4 of the top 10 in this category are not from this era. Carson Palmer has 8 in the regular season and is 4 on the list. Carson Palmer is trash and couldn't hold the jock-strap of Jim Kelly. Matthew Stafford is in the same top 10.

These guys in their spread offenses are not throwing this many 400 yards games in the 90s.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Very well said. People want to put Romo in the Troy era but if plug and play was reality Troy, in a league where WRs ran untouched and QBs couldn't be hit, would tear up teams with his arm and accuracy. In his era getting hit in the chin and head was the norm.

No he wouldnt. And you are overblowing the untouched thing. Aikman had the absolute perfect team around him. He just didnt play in a pass happy offense. Nothing to do with the times, it was the offense. When we had to wing the ball and make comebacks, he was not very good at it.

 

[khiladi]

Matt Schaub is still technically playing and those stats are basically a reflection of a couple of years, as compared to Kelly's full tenure.

Another major factor that is overlooked, outside the DB rules, is the intimidation factor. DBs and LBs could launch themselves at defenseless WRs and didn't have to necessarily pull up on them. DBs are now second-guessing themselves and also have potential fines looming over their heads.

Going over the middle was a matter of courage in many cases, with WRs often catching alligator arms. Nowadays they have free reign.

 

[khiladi]

No he wouldnt. And you are overblowing the untouched thing. Aikman had the absolute perfect team around him. He just didnt play in a pass happy offense. Nothing to do with the times, it was the offense. When we had to wing the ball and make comebacks, he was not very good at it.

One could logically turn this around and say Michael Irvin was playing with the perfect QB for his skill-set. Irvin is arguably one of the top possession receivers of all time, but he didn't win with speed.

Irvin didn't have breakaway speed to get scores off the run.

 

[khiladi]

Brady's offenses these last few years are built on quick passes. Brady gets the ball out faster than any other QB in the league, close to 2 seconds.

A lot of yardage comes off RAC and pick plays. They put up yards, despite the short passes.

If one looks at Romo, even the years where passing yardage is top 5, you see declines in red zone production to bottom half of the league. Teams concede between the 20s, meaning yardage and simply lock down in short fields.

Of course a lot of that had to do with garbage play-calling by Garrett back when he was in control, but it also points to some exaggerated stats.

When Aikman got in the red zone and they passed, Irvin and Novacek scored.

 

[khiladi]

If I would describe the 90s Cowboys during that run, it would be patient and thoroughly precise and systematic. Their style represented the persona of Aikman and Norv actually, more than anybody else and it set the tone.

I personally think the first real blow to the team happened when Norv left, followed by Novacek developing back issues. In the SB against the Steelers, you could see how much the Cowboys started struggling scoring in the red zone in the second half.

The Norv-Aikman separation was the biggest blow.

 

[khiladi]

Correction to a mistake.. Kelly got injured in the first playoffs. But even then, the storyline after the 49ers losing was Buffalo getting it done because if that miraculous comeback.

Nobody predicted the total annihilation by the Cowboys in that SB.

Damn good times they were.

 

[MichaelValentino]

One could logically turn this around and say Michael Irvin was playing with the perfect QB for his skill-set. Irvin is arguably one of the top possession receivers of all time, but he didn't win with speed.

khiladi, you so get this.

Irvin said that he believed if he closed his eyes, Troy would have put the ball in his hands 8 times out of 10. Troy had rare accuracy, excellent arm strength and the ability to put the ball in the tightest of windows. Michael didn't separate the way Calvin Johnson did or even how Jerry Rice did (despite his slow stopwatch time). Troy had to be accurate because Irvin wasn't typically blowing corners away. And Troy could have confidence in throwing more high risk passes to Irvin because he knew he was physical and would fight for position.

In terms of putting the ball "right there" on a consistent basis, the four best at that IMO were Fouts, Montana, Marino and Aikman. I think Rodgers is the best today.

I've seen Roger, Troy and Tony play. I gave a lot of reasons on a similar thread back in November of why I place Roger and Troy 1-2 in Cowboys history. I think I've read 90% of this thread and I can't believe how fans show such disrespect for Aikman. I like Tony Romo a lot, but give me Aikman in a heartbeat over Romo in a big game.

As for Staubach, he was a legendary player and if you weren't there in the mid- to late-70s to see him play, you missed something special. One mentions Staubach in the same breath with Montana, Elway, Unitas, Brady, Starr and Bradshaw. Tony Romo is simply not in their company.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Jim Kelly has a TOTAL of 2, 400 yard passing games, one in the regular season and one in the playoffs. Matt Schaub has 4 games of over 400 yards passing. Matt Schaub couldn't touch the dust on Kelly's shoes.

 

[percyhoward]

If one looks at Romo, even the years where passing yardage is top 5, you see declines in red zone production to bottom half of the league. Teams concede between the 20s, meaning yardage and simply lock down in short fields.

Of course a lot of that had to do with garbage play-calling by Garrett back when he was in control, but it also points to some exaggerated stats.

When Aikman got in the red zone and they passed, Irvin and Novacek scored.

That didn't sound quite right, so I went to PFR and looked it up. Romo's teams have ranked 10th in scoring, on average. Aikman's teams, even with Emmitt to go to in the red zone, ranked 12th. That's omitting Aikman's rookie season.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

khiladi, you so get this.

Irvin said that he believed if he closed his eyes, Troy would have put the ball in his hands 8 times out of 10. Troy had rare accuracy, excellent arm strength and the ability to put the ball in the tightest of windows. Michael didn't separate the way Calvin Johnson did or even how Jerry Rice did (despite his slow stopwatch time). Troy had to be accurate because Irvin wasn't typically blowing corners away. And Troy could have confidence in throwing more high risk passes to Irvin because he knew he was physical and would fight for position.

In terms of putting the ball "right there" on a consistent basis, the four best at that IMO were Fouts, Montana, Marino and Aikman. I think Rodgers is the best today.

I've seen Roger, Troy and Tony play. I gave a lot of reasons on a similar thread back in November of why I place Roger and Troy 1-2 in Cowboys history. I think I've read 90% of this thread and I can't believe how fans show such disrespect for Aikman. I like Tony Romo a lot, but give me Aikman in a heartbeat over Romo in a big game.

As for Staubach, he was a legendary player and if you weren't there in the mid- to late-70s to see him play, you missed something special. One mentions Staubach in the same breath with Montana, Elway, Unitas, Brady, Starr and Bradshaw. Tony Romo is simply not in their company.

Staubach was really special. He's the main reason I became a Cowboys fan. Captain America. He was great.

 

[Aikmaniac]

Look on the bright side. How many forums are arguing about who's the best of their three all-time great QBs?

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Look on the bright side. How many forums are arguing about who's the best of their three all-time great QBs?

I would put all 5 of our QBs against any other team's best 5. I wonder how deep they would go. Some teams are lucky just to have 2.

 

[Miller]

No he wouldnt. And you are overblowing the untouched thing. Aikman had the absolute perfect team around him. He just didnt play in a pass happy offense. Nothing to do with the times, it was the offense. When we had to wing the ball and make comebacks, he was not very good at it.

You are dead wrong. DBs had much more leeway to grab, pull, and be physical due to rules. It's fact. Now they can't touch them. Also, as khiladi pointed out in the Kelly stats guys with much lesser resumes light it up now. Mediocre QBs are 3000-4000 yard passers now. Last yr all but 3 QBs had less than 3000 yds and 11 had over 4000. Everyone else in between 3000-4000 yds. In 1994 12 QBs had under 3000 yards. Only 3 had over 4000...Marino, Moon and Bledsoe. Do you see the massive difference in how the game is played?

 

[Miller]

You are dead wrong. DBs had much more leeway to grab, pull, and be physical due to rules. It's fact. Now they can't touch them. Also, as khiladi pointed out in the Kelly stats guys with much lesser resumes light it up now. Mediocre QBs are 3000-4000 yard passers now. Last yr all but 3 QBs had less than 3000 yds and 11 had over 4000. Everyone else in between 3000-4000 yds. In 1994 12 QBs had under 3000 yards. Only 3 had over 4000...Marino, Moon and Bledsoe. Do you see the massive difference in how the game is played?

Last yr all but 3 QBs had less than 3000 yds

Sorry, I meant ONLY three had less than 3000

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No he wouldnt. And you are overblowing the untouched thing. Aikman had the absolute perfect team around him. He just didnt play in a pass happy offense. Nothing to do with the times, it was the offense. When we had to wing the ball and make comebacks, he was not very good at it.

I don't really agree with this. The Offense was not designed to be a very good come from behind type of Offense. I mean, look at the personnel. You basically had one deep threat on the team and that was not Michael Irvin. That was Harper. The only other deep threat WR we had, at the time, was Jimmy Smith, who we cut. Other then that, Irvin was more of a possession WR. Emmitt was not a breakaway kinda back. Noveck had speed for a TE but not so much for a Deep Threat receiver. All of those guys were designed to move the chains, to power the ball over the line, to get the lead and then just hold your foot on the throat and never let the opposition get back up. It really doesn't matter who you have at QB in that Offense, with that personnel IMO. If you don't have the weapons or the Offense designed to run wide open, your not going to be successful at doing it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Haha, so this is it? You were at the game...so you somehow know more than what everyone saw on TV? Did you get more insight into the workings of Romo's mind? No, you didn't.

The offensive line played poorly, it was one of the main reasons we took steps to correct it and started letting our veterans go. It was time to rebuild it. This is well-known to everyone who watched that game.

I'm really surprised by how piss poor the arguments have been in here.

This is what makes no sense. More is asked for, Houston gave an eye witness account. I don't understand why the response was so negative. This just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.