Roy Williams and Sean Taylor - The Debate Must End

[CowboyMike]

Though it never will end. But we can attempt to really look at it and discuss it in a civilized manner.

This post is in response to a statement made by Kevin, which I happen to somewhat agree with. (AH! I agree with a Skins fan!) and the fact that CBS Sportsline claimed Roy Williams is an overrated player, while Sean Taylor is an elite safety.

Never will a Cowboy fan admit that Sean Taylor is better. Why? Because Roy Williams is your Safety, and you freaking love the guy! The same goes for Commanders fans and Sean Taylor. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp. No matter what stats are presented, or images and video clips are brought to our attention, fans will always stay loyal to their team's players.

The only reason that the Sean Taylor vs. Roy Williams debate exists is because both teams have fantastic safeties with galaxies of potential. We love that fact, and we will defend it to our deathbeds.

Just as all the Cowboy fans have been saying, "Sure, you can focus on a few mistakes made by Roy- but look at all the marvelous plays he's made." The same thing can be said for Sean. Skins fans will hate highlighting Roy's positives just as much as Boys refuse to respect Taylor.

All the media that's been presented here hardly proves a point as to either safeties skill. Anyone that knows how to use Google could make Peyton Manning look like Ryan Leaf and vice versa.

I have taken a step back and attempted to look at this un-biased. However there is always going to be the fact that I love the Cowboys and am completely loyal to my team. Therefore I am not claiming this as an un-biased post, merely an attempt.

I don't doubt Sean Taylor's talent and ability. I believe he is a very good safety, a great safety, in fact. The potential to be great. However I don't believe he's up to Roy Williams' pedigree. Yet.

Roy Williams is an elite safety. When people think of the best safeties in the league, they think Ed Reed, Troy Palamalu, Roy Williams, and Michael Lewis. I personally think Ed Reed and Roy Williams are tied for the best safeties in the league, however they are completely different styled players.

Roy Williams has three pro bowls, while Sean Taylor has none. I have no doubt Sean Taylor will go to a Pro Bowl eventually. The fact is at this time Roy has him beaten in that category.

Some say Sean Taylor is the next Ronnie Lott. Before Sean Taylor came around, many were saying, and still say, Roy Williams is the next Ronnie Lott. Ronnie Lott said himself Roy Williams is the next Ronnie Lott.

Let's look at them statistically. Since Sean Taylor has only played two years, while Roy has played four. I will compare their first two seasons, and their season averages.

First Two Seasons:
Roy Williams - 171 Tackles, 4 Sacks, 7 Interceptions, 2 Touchdowns, 9 Passes Defended
Sean Taylor - 146 Tackles, 2 Sacks, 6 Interceptions, 0 touchdowns, 19 Passes Defended

Career Season Averages:
Roy Williams - 86.5 Tackles, 1.6 Sacks, 3 Interceptions, 0.75 Touchdowns, 6 Passes Defended
Sean Taylor - 73 Tackles, 1 Sacks, 3 Interceptions, 0 Touchdowns, 9.5 Passes Defended

Roy wins in the tackles, sacks, interceptions, and touchdowns categories, while Sean clearly has him beaten in the Pass Defended area. Sean is the better coverage guy, however Roy is the better tackler and at doing what he does best.

However as I type this, my morals keep popping into my head. And I must include the fact of the better person on and off the field. I can't get the fact out of my head that Sean Taylor is simply a troubled, undisciplined, terrible person.

It's simple as that.

Roy Williams is a very good, model, kind human being.

Until Sean Taylor cleans up his act and respects the game, and more importantly himself and society; I cannot compare him to Roy or any other safety in the league. I have no doubt he can clean up, but I can't take him seriously until he does.

So yes, I'm a Cowboys fan and I'm saying Roy Williams is the better Safety. It's not because of talent, ability, skill; happen to think they're very close to eachother in that category in their own way. It's because Roy Williams is simply the better, classier person.

 

[Big Dakota]

Iagree 100%!!!!!!!!!! Personally, i don't care what the debate is. Fact is One is a punk AZZZZ street thug and the other is a good guy. That's where is begins and ends for me.

 

[CowboyMike]

Personally, i don't care what the debate is. Fact is One is a punk AZZZZ street thug and the other is a good guy. That's where is begins and ends for me.

Well, that's what my post is saying.

Oh yeah, and I just have to add one of these

:dissskin:

for good measure.

 

[metalichris]

I agree with a lot of what your saying. I think Sean is WAY better in pass coverage, but that is why there is a FS and a SS. I think Roy puts more fear into recievers hearts due to him ripping people's heads off and pissing down their throats. This debate will never be settled until ESPN gives their final word on who is better . One thing is for sure, if both players were on the same team, someones backfield is in buisness.

 

[burmafrd]

Roy is a SS and the thug is a FS. End of story.

 

[big dog cowboy]

On the field:

Roy > ST

Off the field:

Roy > ST

 

[firehawk350]

However as I type this, my morals keep popping into my head. And I must include the fact of the better person on and off the field. I can't get the fact out of my head that Sean Taylor is simply a troubled, undisciplined, terrible person.

It's simple as that.

I guess by this simple logic, Art Monk should get into the HOF way before Irving. One was a great guy, the other was a law-breaking a-hole. Oh yeah, and Monk had better stats.
My point being is you take the high-and-mighty ground now, but talk about Irving and it's all about on the field production.
And show me a clip of a receiver ducking a tackle in order to not be hit by Roy Williams and then I'll believe the "put the fear in the heart of WRs". I can show you two clips of people ducking Taylor. One is the Arizona RB ducking a tackle one yard short of a first down on 4th down and the game on the line and the other is obviously Terry Glenn. Even the commentators said he had alligator arms.
And here's a novel idea! Maybe the reason why Roy's stats are so good his first couple of years is because he played along side Woodson and Taylor played along side Clark and Bowen. There's a slight difference there. And crap, you mean that the pro bowl is a popularity contest??? I mean, do you really mean that Michael Vick isn't the best QB in the NFC right now??? Wow, holy useless stats batman!

 

[TheBeheader31]

anyone who can't spell Michael Irvin's name correctly can't be taken seriously...

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Iagree 100%!!!!!!!!!! Personally, i don't care what the debate is. Fact is One is a punk AZZZZ street thug and the other is a good guy. That's where is begins and ends for me.

I agree, Roy hands down winner!

 

[BrassCowboy]

I guess by this simple logic, Art Monk should get into the HOF way before Irving. One was a great guy, the other was a law-breaking a-hole. Oh yeah, and Monk had better stats.
My point being is you take the high-and-mighty ground now, but talk about Irving and it's all about on the field production.
And show me a clip of a receiver ducking a tackle in order to not be hit by Roy Williams and then I'll believe the "put the fear in the heart of WRs". I can show you two clips of people ducking Taylor. One is the Arizona RB ducking a tackle one yard short of a first down on 4th down and the game on the line and the other is obviously Terry Glenn. Even the commentators said he had alligator arms.
And here's a novel idea! Maybe the reason why Roy's stats are so good his first couple of years is because he played along side Woodson and Taylor played along side Clark and Bowen. There's a slight difference there. And crap, you mean that the pro bowl is a popularity contest??? I mean, do you really mean that Michael Vick isn't the best QB in the NFC right now??? Wow, holy useless stats batman!

you pull one comment out of his whole writeup and act like that was his (and everyone elses) whole point and then use it to make this argument is kind of incomplete.

Your whole argument about who they played with... blah they play two whole different positions. Taylor play FS, while Williams plays SS.
If you were to correctly judge them by who they pair up with based on what their job is (FS or SS), then you will have to judge Taylor by the cornerbacks he plays with, while Roy would match up with the LBs he plays with. I think you see where I am going with there.

Personally, I think Roy is a better player in what he is asked to do. The fact that Cowboys lack a solid FS is not Roy's fault.
Saying that, Taylor is a very good FS. The question I say and what you may be railing the other post about is would I take him with that attitude? Maybe because Bill P. is pretty good with guys with bad attitudes.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Football Season Please...PLEASE Hurry up.

Sadly the best opinion on this whole topic IMO was the one by a skins fan that was Quoted in the original post of this thread. It says it all.

We will like Roy, they will like Sean.

Pretty much end of story IMO.

 

[heels232]

Just wanted to let you know that Sean Taylor did have a TD in the Philly game at the end of the year to seal the win. He got it off of a fumble.

 

[superpunk]

Football Season Please...PLEASE Hurry up.

Sadly the best opinion on this whole topic IMO was the one by a skins fan that was Quoted in the original post of this thread. It says it all.

We will like Roy, they will like Sean.

Pretty much end of story IMO.

What if I like Sean, too? Is that so wrong? lol....

FWIW, Monk was never half as dominant as "Irving", Emmitt is the best RB ever, and Bledsoe is better than Brunell.

hijacked, *****.

 

[AtlCB]

I guess by this simple logic, Art Monk should get into the HOF way before Irving. One was a great guy, the other was a law-breaking a-hole. Oh yeah, and Monk had better stats.
My point being is you take the high-and-mighty ground now, but talk about Irving and it's all about on the field production.
And show me a clip of a receiver ducking a tackle in order to not be hit by Roy Williams and then I'll believe the "put the fear in the heart of WRs". I can show you two clips of people ducking Taylor. One is the Arizona RB ducking a tackle one yard short of a first down on 4th down and the game on the line and the other is obviously Terry Glenn. Even the commentators said he had alligator arms.
And here's a novel idea! Maybe the reason why Roy's stats are so good his first couple of years is because he played along side Woodson and Taylor played along side Clark and Bowen. There's a slight difference there. And crap, you mean that the pro bowl is a popularity contest??? I mean, do you really mean that Michael Vick isn't the best QB in the NFC right now??? Wow, holy useless stats batman!

Todd Pinkston and Laveranues Coles to start with. I'm sure there are more, but these two came to my head right away.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

What if I like Sean, too? Is that so wrong? lol....

Well...you are a Punk...a Super one at that. :

 

[firehawk350]

Todd Pinkston and Laveranues Coles to start with. I'm sure there are more, but these two came to my head right away.

Can I see a clip of them actually ducking the tackle or not going for the ball???

 

[superpunk]

Well...you are a Punk...a Super one at that. :

Oh yeah?

Well, you've got nice boobs.

 

[firehawk350]

you pull one comment out of his whole writeup and act like that was his (and everyone elses) whole point and then use it to make this argument is kind of incomplete.

Your whole argument about who they played with... blah they play two whole different positions. Taylor play FS, while Williams plays SS.
If you were to correctly judge them by who they pair up with based on what their job is (FS or SS), then you will have to judge Taylor by the cornerbacks he plays with, while Roy would match up with the LBs he plays with. I think you see where I am going with there.

Personally, I think Roy is a better player in what he is asked to do. The fact that Cowboys lack a solid FS is not Roy's fault.
Saying that, Taylor is a very good FS. The question I say and what you may be railing the other post about is would I take him with that attitude? Maybe because Bill P. is pretty good with guys with bad attitudes.

well actually I only quoted a small part of his article, but I actually addressed quite a few points. I addressed the use of stats and how they would be misleading and then I addressed the pro bowl issue and how that pro bowls are a bad way of judging talent.
And BTW, you have to judge them based off the other safety and then off of LB for SS and CB for FS. Because for the second safety, your role begins with the other safety. If your FS is a liability in coverage, you have to pull back your SS and then the LB comparison really won't have much weight whereas for a FS, if you have a SS who can't tackle well, then you have to play more run support and then your CBs won't matter as much. So the other safety has a much bigger role in this then the LB/CBs. And RW had a MUCH better safety on the other side then Taylor.
And sorry, I got Irving, TX and Michael Irvin mixed up. How many times have I seen sean springs vs. shawn springs?

 

[sacase]

What I find amazing is that people always seem to want to discredit the pro bowl. But when they are faced with Roy being All-Pro, they always duck the issue and fail to respond. Roy has been All-Pro...Sean...well he has been found wanting.

 

[firehawk350]

What I find amazing is that people always seem to want to discredit the pro bowl. But when they are faced with Roy being All-Pro, they always duck the issue and fail to respond. Roy has been All-Pro...Sean...well he has been found wanting.

Roy has had a lot more time to get recognized all-pro, and Sean will make all-pro when his off-the-field issues fade. Your expecting a 3 year player to have accomplished everything that a 6 year player has.
Anyways, all cowboy fans have said that Larry Allen didn't deserve to go to the pro-bowl, that he got there on name only. And everyone knows that Mike Vick didn't deserve to be there either. He's not even a top 10 QB in most people's lists. On the other hand, there are people who finally got the deserved recognition. Read: Mack Strong.