Safeties on roster and how it all shakes out

[Eskimo]

Just for fun sake, below are the numbers for Vaccarro and Church. One guy is deemed super athletic and taken 15th overall and the other guy goes undrafted due to concerns about athletic ability:

Player 1:
40 yard dash: 4.64
Short shuttle: 4.17
3-cone drill: 6.65
vertical: 36
Broad jump: 10-0
bench: 19


Player 2
40yard dash: 4.59
short shuttle: 4.06
3 cone drill: 6.78
vertical: 38
broad jump: 10-1
bench: 15

I find it amusing that people are always criticizing Church for lack of athletic ability when his numbers are actually not all that bad. The 4.64 was from his Pro Day. Still the guy actually was playing very well in season 3 for a guy from a small school and the recoveries from Achilles injuries are much better than they seem to have been in the past lately.

I'm still more worried about the #2 safety spot. Matt Johnson hasn't been the picture of health the last two years. Wilcox likely needs a redshirt year to bring him up to speed against NFL defenses. Will Allen is a vet who can help out but is a fairly limited player. I wonder if Hamilton gets in the mix but very few UDFAs seem to be able to step up in the first year and if they had that high of a projection on him at such a position of need you'd think they would have drafted him in the 6th instead. I also wonder if the drafting of Webb doesn't push Sterling Moore into a move to Safety to beef up the competition there.

Safety is still a huge concern after the draft. I hope they have hit on Matt Johnson and Wilcox because these guys are going to be much more prominent in Kiffen's defense than they had been in Ryan's who seemed to almost look at them as an afterthought.

Can anyone add some clarity to how this all shakes out? Does anyone think we might bring in another vet to add to the picture like Frampton or Peprah from last year or perhaps someone entirely different. Has Sensy found another home and could he be brought back as a stopgap solution? I probably wouldn't be so concerned except for the fact that the two slated 1st teamers right now have a grand total of about 3 starts in their careers.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Safety is still a huge concern, especially now that we have Kiffin. Its the position that I hope some miracle happens and we magically have some dude out of nowhere who was sacking groceries come in and be the next Sensy...ok maybe not.

At most of the other positions on the team, we just have spent more resources as far as draft picks or FA dollars. At safety, we are still hoping that some small school later round pick or UDFA is going to save us. Sure, you just can't have an all-pro at every position, but at least we could make an effort.

Who knows what we will get from Church post injury, only can wait and see. We know what we will get with Allen, mediocre. The Matt and Wilcox small school show will be entertaining for camp, hopefully one of them wins an Emmy for us. To start the season, safety will probably be the most questionable position cause we could actually add another OL, but have we heard anything about adding a safety....nope.

I just pray for a miracle, as the young guys are too green and the rest don't have alot of talent.

 

[morasp]

I think it will be Church and Allen to start and they will take a look at Johnson and Wilcox. I think you can tell a lot by who they didn't keep. Sensabaugh who was our starter with Church last year is gone. I don't think he was that expensive so they could have kept him but chose not to. Instead they brought in Allen who I'm assuming they consider an upgrade. This isn't Kiffin and Marinellis first rodeo and I'm sure there were serious discussions about the position and that's what they came up with. One things for sure judging by the type of DB they brought in we are going to have a lot more physical secondary. I enjoyed watching the Webb and Wilcox highlight videos.

 

[perrykemp]

I find it amusing that people are always criticizing Church for lack of athletic ability when his numbers are actually not all that bad. The 4.64 was from his Pro Day. Still the guy actually was playing very well in season 3 for a guy from a small school and the recoveries from Achilles injuries are much better than they seem to have been in the past lately.

I liked the very little we saw from Church last season too, however, we need to be realistic about him -- he is a somewhat slow footed player who in his three year career has had 0 interceptions which isn't <a huge deal>, however, he has also managed a grand total of 0 passes defensed as well.... so in three years he has basically never managed to get his hands on the ball to either pick off a pass or even knock one down.

Those statistics seem to support one of concerns about Church coming out of college -- that he had very limited range. It's one of the major reasons why he was undrafted. In fact, his season year at Toledo he only managed 1 interception and 2 passes defensed.

Again, maybe with superior coaching and Church's determination he overcomes his achilles injury and becomes a decent pass defender, however, IMHO, the Cowboys definately need a solid Plan B on the roster.

 

[Vabeachboy]

I liked the very little we saw from Church last season too, however, we need to be realistic about him -- he is a somewhat slow footed player who in his three year career has had 0 interceptions which isn't <a huge deal>, however, he has also managed a grand total of 0 passes defensed as well.... so in three years he has basically never managed to get his hands on the ball to either pick off a pass or even knock one down.

Those statistics seem to support one of concerns about Church coming out of college -- that he had very limited range. It's one of the major reasons why he was undrafted. In fact, his season year at Toledo he only managed 1 interception and 2 passes defensed.

Again, maybe with superior coaching and Church's determination he overcomes his achilles injury and becomes a decent pass defender, however, IMHO, the Cowboys definately need a solid Plan B on the roster.

We can pretend that he has 0 pass deflected and 0 ints because he's so good they don't pass in his direction lol...seriously though there's gonna be all kinds of players cut / released once workouts and training camps start. Every year there's a bunch of surprise cuts so I'm sure players will be available that we don't expect to be right now. Let's see what happens after June 1...not to mention trades are always possible now that teams have drafted new players. Some veterans will become expendable. That's why I'm not worried about safety or online...yet.....

 

[DefendingTheStar]

I think it will be Church and Allen. I watched two interviews by Allen on NFL network and he sounds like kiffin has told him it's his spot to lose.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I think it will be Church and Allen. I watched two interviews by Allen on NFL network and he sounds like kiffin has told him it's his spot to lose.

I figure you are right, they could be the pair starting at the beginning of the season. But we also have to be aware of what we are getting, Church has never had a INT in his pro career, and Allen hasn't had any since 2005.

Our CBs are given no support for yet another year, unless Wilcox or Matt can shock the world (which I'm praying for at this point to be honest).

 

[Oh_Canada]

If Johnson stays healthy, he wins the position and plays well alongside Church.

 

[visionary]

playing the tampa 2 with an aging DL and no safeties worth a darn

should be a fun year

 

[big dog cowboy]

During the draft The Ticket was reporting Moore will likely end up at Safety.

 

[Future]

During the draft The Ticket was reporting Moore will likely end up at Safety.

If that proves to be true, bad news for Johnson.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Barry Church was already a 4.64 pre-injury. Good Luck with that.

 

[CATCH17]

Church looked like he was going to be a good player last year. I just don't trust him coming off that injury.

 

[DFWJC]

playing the tampa 2 with an aging DL and no safeties worth a darn

should be a fun year

I thought adding a DT and maybe a DE this draft should have been a priority.
Just didn't go down that way.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

LBs are what Monte likes and uses the most, linebackers.

 

[visionary]

I thought adding a DT and maybe a DE this draft should have been a priority.
Just didn't go down that way.

that may be true but

1) listening to garrett in the psot draft PC he mentions that they might have looked for a DT but no mention of DE. so it seems they were not even considering DE

2) non DL picked as UDFA. cant hurt to take a flyer on someone

these guys are just over-rating our DL (just like have over-rated OL for years) and hoping that the change in coaching will suddenly make them world beaters

it might, but you cant bank your season on an old and injured DL in a scheme where pressure is key

esp when on the back end, safety is a weak point

we made the same mistake when we got Ryan his first year

 

[perrykemp]

I figure you are right, they could be the pair starting at the beginning of the season. But we also have to be aware of what we are getting, Church has never had a INT in his pro career, and Allen hasn't had any since 2005.

Forget INTs for a moment.... Church has never had a single Pass Deflection / Pass Defensed (PD) in his entire career. In other words, he has never once been able to get his hands on a ball when playing pass defense.

 

[Doomsday101]

NEI Not Enough Information.

I was feeling good about Church before going down with the injury as for the other safeties on the roster can't comments if they are unable to get on the field or practice. Right now just hoping for a full recovery on Church and last report I saw he was coming along nicely. Matt Johnson and the draft selection just not enough information. Will Allen I think is at least an upgrade over what we saw last year but clearly is no more than a stop gap

 

[hairic]

Forget INTs for a moment.... Church has never had a single Pass Deflection / Pass Defensed (PD) in his entire career. In other words, he has never once been able to get his hands on a ball when playing pass defense.

 

[morasp]

Nice.