Salary Cap space - Updated

Nightman

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If we do this now, we can’t do it in the future. They should be careful about who they restructure and when.

I’m not accusing you of this - I know you’re a cap guy. But there seems to be a notion that the cap is imaginary, that they can just keep turning salary into bonus without a cost. That’s not accurate. Right?
No ...they should always borrow from the future to win now.... it is just smart business and simple math

Having 120m next year is ludicrous without borrowing some of it for this year when we are so close

There is never a cap hell in the future...... never
 

ConceptCoop

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No ...they should always borrow from the future to win now.... it is just smart business and simple math

Having 120m next year is ludicrous without borrowing some of it for this year when we are so close

There is never a cap hell in the future...... never

Are you suggesting that adding long term salary will have no impact on our ability to pay the 6 pro-bowlers we’ll have to in the next year or two?

What teams do we see successfully borrowing from the future? The Patriots, to pick the obvious example, are very smart with their money. Are the silly to be so?
 

Toruk_Makto

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There is never a cap hell in the future...... never
If this statement was true you'd never see teams lose top talent. But you do. A team looking to contend would never be outbid. But they are. The consistently best team in the league would be thr one with the richest owners. They aren't.

This is one of those things that is obvious if you think about it. But conventional wisdom is a hell of a drug.
 

Nightman

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Are you suggesting that adding long term salary will have no impact on our ability to pay the 6 pro-bowlers we’ll have to in the next year or two?

What teams do we see successfully borrowing from the future? The Patriots, to pick the obvious example, are very smart with their money. Are the silly to be so?
Stop comparing us to the Pats..... there is no comparison

And when you have large contracts you can always create room and older players retire and create more room and you cut dead weight and create more room and the cap goes up and get more room
 

Nightman

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If this statement was true you'd never see teams lose top talent. But you do. A team looking to contend would never be outbid. But they are. The consistently best team in the league would be thr one with the richest owners. They aren't.

This is one of those things that is obvious if you think about it. But conventional wisdom is a hell of a drug.
blah blah blah.... the sky is always falling in your world

grow a pair and try to win now

when we win a couple SB then we can start making 10 year fiscally sound, safe and boring plans
 

Toruk_Makto

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blah blah blah.... the sky is always falling in your world

grow a pair and try to win now

when we win a couple SB then we can start making 10 year fiscally sound, safe and boring plans
Because what you said isn't true you ask me to grow a pair?
 

ConceptCoop

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Stop comparing us to the Pats..... there is no comparison

And when you have large contracts you can always create room and older players retire and create more room and you cut dead weight and create more room and the cap goes up and get more room

Who compared us to the Pats?

You haven't answered my question. Good teams don't opperate as though there is no cost to kicking the can down the road. Why is that?

Why is a QB on a rookie contract a big deal, if there is endless cap to create via restructures?
 

ConceptCoop

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If this statement was true you'd never see teams lose top talent. But you do. A team looking to contend would never be outbid. But they are. The consistently best team in the league would be thr one with the richest owners. They aren't.

This is one of those things that is obvious if you think about it. But conventional wisdom is a hell of a drug.

Exactly. If owners could buy a Super Bowl, Jerry would do it.
 

Nightman

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Exactly. If owners could buy a Super Bowl, Jerry would do it.
The Eagles did it and are doing it

They have borrowed 34m from 2021-22 to keep things rolling after winning the SB

The Rams bought a trip to the SB
The Broncos bought 2 trips and a win
The Seahawks bought a trip combined with some young picks
 

Nightman

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When you do a restructure you are borrowing cap space from the future...if you turn an 11m base salary into a 10m signing bonus and a 1m base salary the cash is the same.... it just means you can spread the 10m over 5 years.... instead of a 11m cap hit you now have a 3m cap hit( 1m base + 2m prorated signing bonus)

Year1 you pay back 2m right off the top so you have created 8m in cap space

Years2-5 you pay back 2m a year as well.... but there is no interest on this loan..... you borrowed 10m and paid back 10m over 5 years

But in fact it is even better because the cap keeps going up....it is a cash back loan..... you borrow 10m but only pay back 8m or 9m if you stretch it over the full 5 years

When the cap is 150m then 10m represents 10/150 or 6.7%
By Year5 the cap has gone up 50m so now it is 10/200 or 5%

The cap has gone up by 33% so cap charges in the future are worth less than they are today ... the same 10m hurts a lot less... it is free money

You borrowed 10m and had to pay back 8m essentially.... if this happened in real life people would be lining up around the block to get this deal and they would do it as many times as they could... it is the same with restructures

Every guaranteed base salary should always be restructured and most other large contracts should be done as well as long as that player is going to be on your roster that year since it pre-pays their salary for the year

There is no fear, no risk, no doing it too much..... it has no bearing on whether you can cut a player in the future.... Dead Money is Dead and can never be resurrected by continuing to pay a bad player

Dead Money is simply the receipt for cap savings already taken in the past when the cap was much lower..... it really shouldn't even by tied to any one player in particular since the savings went to the general fund.... and with rollover you can push forward any unspent cap space to the future anyways... another bonus
 

Nightman

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The status of his hip is irrelevant ........ if he is on the team this year then you restructure his contract

Simple math...... who the cap space is attached to doesn't matter

When you sign 3 players because you save 7.5m on TSmith's contract he doesn't get 3 stars on his contract or his helmet..... he gets a thanks in the form of his money for the year upfront and in a lump sum...... that is called a win-win

All you are advocating is paying the Dead Money this year instead of 3-4 years in the future???? Why do you think that is better??? How does that help this year's team win any more games or sign better players???

It doesn't ... it just makes you feel better because you are trained to believe debt is bad.... the Salary Cap isn't real life..... there are no interest rates and you always get a 5-10% annual raise
 

Nightman

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30m SB................... 65m gtd.....................not official yet

2019- 1.1m base................cap hit 7.1m
2020- 16m base.................cap hit 22m(restructured down with voidable years)
2021- 17m* base................cap hit 23m
2022- 20m base.................cap hit 26m
2023- 20m base.................cap hit 26m

*guarantees in March 2020
 

ksg811

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30m SB................... 65m gtd.....................not official yet

2019- 1.1m base................cap hit 7.1m
2020- 16m base.................cap hit 22m(restructured down with voidable years)
2021- 17m* base................cap hit 23m
2022- 20m base.................cap hit 26m
2023- 20m base.................cap hit 26m

*guarantees in March 2020

Judging by the cash flow being reported, I think years 2 and 3 are swapped, but otherwise looks accurate.
 

dckid

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blah blah blah.... the sky is always falling in your world

grow a pair and try to win now

when we win a couple SB then we can start making 10 year fiscally sound, safe and boring plans
So true!! Tired of all the crying about salary cap nonsense!!!! There is no cap he’ll. Most contracts are for three years and then very easy to get out of.
 

cowboysooner

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Jaylon is every bit as essential to extend as Cooper. Those should be the next two.
 
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