Scout's Notebook: Early Thoughts On Left Guard, Gathers' Opportunity; More

[RS12]

• There’s been a lot of talk during the offseason about getting Ezekiel Elliott more involved in the passing game as a receiver. As much as I like that idea, I could also see where the coaches want to find some balance there and I will explain why. Watching Elliott sort blitzes correctly and step up to execute his assignment made me stop and reflect how important he is to scheme in that area of the passing game. To quote Col. Nathan Jessup in the movie “A Few Good Men” -- "You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall". This is the way I feel about Elliott. You need him in pass protection because he is just as much of a weapon in that area as he is as a receiver. We all have to be careful what we wish for.

• I didn't see anything that was a cause for concern assignment-wise from Chaz Green working with the first unit at left guard. His pickups were clean, assignments sound and technique was where it needed to be. He and Tyron Smith appeared to work well together sorting out a moving defensive front with a blitz from the secondary consisting of Jeff Heath and Orlando Scandrick. Green has a shot to win this job over Jonathan Cooper if he can just maintain his health this training camp. That's really the only question mark.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...-guard-gathers-opportunity-more?sf100724736=1

 

[RS12]

I think Broaddus has a valid point about Zeke in pass protection but he needs the ball in his hands in most situations as play makers do.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think Broaddus has a valid point about Zeke in pass protection but he needs the ball in his hands in most situations as play makers do.

I actually think Broaddus has no point at all there. I mean, Elliott might be a heck of a blocking back but he's still a back. He still checks in at 225 or so and he is still at a disadvantage in picking up blocks because he has to find the free man and then has to get there and have the proper angle to get a block. Even if you are really good at picking up blocks, as a running back, you are still at a disadvantage because a TE or an OL is going to have size, length and much better angles to reach the block from. IMO, it's down right stupid to try and say that he is too important to the scheme as a blocker to be used in the passing game.

Here is the thing about Football. Either you attack or you defend. Doesn't matter which side of the ball, this is real for Offense or Defense. Aggressors are usually in a more advantageous situation. It's almost always better to force your opponent to adjust, rather then sitting back and waiting for it. If you use Zeke in the manner suggested, you are not attacking. You are adjusting and that's not how he should be used IMO. He is a weapon with a shelf life. You better be smart enough to understand this and use him to full advantage.

 

[Nightman]

Seems strange that LCollins is starting out at RT and CGreen is at LG

I think they both can succeed at their new positions but staying put seemed like the easier path

 

[Alexander]

I actually think Broaddus has no point at all there. I mean, Elliott might be a heck of a blocking back but he's still a back. He still checks in at 225 or so and he is still at a disadvantage in picking up blocks because he has to find the free man and then has to get there and have the proper angle to get a block. Even if you are really good at picking up blocks, as a running back, you are still at a disadvantage because a TE or an OL is going to have size, length and much better angles to reach the block from. IMO, it's down right stupid to try and say that he is too important to the scheme as a blocker to be used in the passing game.

It is not an either/or situation, but it seems he is trying to say that.

 

[Idgit]

What the hell is Brian Broaddus' fascination with Joe Looney, anyway? I got nothing against the guy, but he had no shot at that starting LG position, but Brian keeps bringing it up as if it's something that might happen someday.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I actually think Broaddus has no point at all there. I mean, Elliott might be a heck of a blocking back but he's still a back. He still checks in at 225 or so and he is still at a disadvantage in picking up blocks because he has to find the free man and then has to get there and have the proper angle to get a block. Even if you are really good at picking up blocks, as a running back, you are still at a disadvantage because a TE or an OL is going to have size, length and much better angles to reach the block from. IMO, it's down right stupid to try and say that he is too important to the scheme as a blocker to be used in the passing game.

Here is the thing about Football. Either you attack or you defend. Doesn't matter which side of the ball, this is real for Offense or Defense. Aggressors are usually in a more advantageous situation. It's almost always better to force your opponent to adjust, rather then sitting back and waiting for it. If you use Zeke in the manner suggested, you are not attacking. You are adjusting and that's not how he should be used IMO. He is a weapon with a shelf life. You better be smart enough to understand this and use him to full advantage.

RB is always going to have the advantage because they line up in the backfield. It's easy to flank TE and OL.

FOr all your comments about Zeke's size, I don't recall him being bulled over once and I did see him pancake many a DE on chips.

The one I would like to improve his blocking is K Smith. They could run 21 and get Zeke in the passing game.

 

[Idgit]

RB is always going to have the advantage because they line up in the backfield. It's easy to flank TE and OL.

FOr all your comments about Zeke's size, I don't recall him being bulled over once and I did see him pancake many a DE on chips.

The one I would like to improve his blocking is K Smith. They could run 21 and get Zeke in the passing game.

Just about my favorite part of Zeke's game is his pass protection. That, and he doesn't fumble.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What the hell is Brian Broaddus' fascination with Joe Looney, anyway? I got nothing against the guy, but he had no shot at that starting LG position, but Brian keeps bringing it up as if it's something that might happen someday.

It's a struggle for Broaddus to change his mind and he was giving Looney a shot to win the job.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

The Zeke comments are some of BB's best yet. With the myriad of attacking defenses with delayed and mixed rush components it's vital to have a back who can help pick up the extra or occasional missed guy. DJ and Bell might have shown more as receivers in the league, but this guy is better as the last line of protection for the QB. Besides, him being such a good blocker opens up possibilities for him to sneak out for bigger impact receptions - like the one against the Steelers.

The Looney love is just an example of BB being BB. He's shown very little compared to Chaz and Cooper.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

RB is always going to have the advantage because they line up in the backfield. It's easy to flank TE and OL.

FOr all your comments about Zeke's size, I don't recall him being bulled over once and I did see him pancake many a DE on chips.

The one I would like to improve his blocking is K Smith. They could run 21 and get Zeke in the passing game.

I don't agree. I played the position. You are not going to have the advantage because, you are always going to be the shortest guy and it is always going to be hard to locate where the free guy comes from.

Doesn't matter if he is bulled over or not. He's still 225. He is taking he hit on the blitz, he's not delivering it. A chip is not a block. It's a chip, you hit your guy and then you go out into the pattern or what have you. Sustaining a block and getting a chip on a guy are two very different things.

I mean, there are so many reasons why that is just a bad idea, to not use Zeke in the passing game. You pay guys 400K a season to be able to pick up blocks in the backfield. You pay guys millions and millions to be able to run a pattern down field, out of the backfield, and take it to the house.

 

[ConstantReboot]

• There’s been a lot of talk during the offseason about getting Ezekiel Elliott more involved in the passing game as a receiver. As much as I like that idea, I could also see where the coaches want to find some balance there and I will explain why. Watching Elliott sort blitzes correctly and step up to execute his assignment made me stop and reflect how important he is to scheme in that area of the passing game. To quote Col. Nathan Jessup in the movie “A Few Good Men” -- "You want me on that wall. You need me on that wall". This is the way I feel about Elliott. You need him in pass protection because he is just as much of a weapon in that area as he is as a receiver. We all have to be careful what we wish for.

• I didn't see anything that was a cause for concern assignment-wise from Chaz Green working with the first unit at left guard. His pickups were clean, assignments sound and technique was where it needed to be. He and Tyron Smith appeared to work well together sorting out a moving defensive front with a blitz from the secondary consisting of Jeff Heath and Orlando Scandrick. Green has a shot to win this job over Jonathan Cooper if he can just maintain his health this training camp. That's really the only question mark.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...-guard-gathers-opportunity-more?sf100724736=1

Zeke needs to be in there during pass downs especially 3rd and short, period.

Nothing gives defenses fits more than Zeke on 3rd and short situations. Thus I can't understand why we take him out during those situations.

 

[LittleD]

What the hell is Brian Broaddus' fascination with Joe Looney, anyway? I got nothing against the guy, but he had no shot at that starting LG position, but Brian keeps bringing it up as if it's something that might happen someday.

To try and answer your question, He's unsure that Green can stay healthy for long and he's never been that fond of Cooper. He doesn't think he has the strength to play LG. I think he though Joe Looney played pretty well last year and is equal in talent to Bell. I don't know who will win the job but, some dude will take the bit by end of camp.

 

[CATCH17]

It would be great if Chaz Green can win that job.


I think he's a pretty good football player but I just have no faith that he can stay healthy.

 

[RS12]

Nothing gives defenses fits more than Zeke on 3rd and short situations. Thus I can't understand why we take him out during those situations.

Last year it was to justify Dunbar's existance, something they were never able to do.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't agree. I played the position. You are not going to have the advantage because, you are always going to be the shortest guy and it is always going to be hard to locate where the free guy comes from.

Doesn't matter if he is bulled over or not. He's still 225. He is taking he hit on the blitz, he's not delivering it. A chip is not a block. It's a chip, you hit your guy and then you go out into the pattern or what have you. Sustaining a block and getting a chip on a guy are two very different things.

I mean, there are so many reasons why that is just a bad idea, to not use Zeke in the passing game. You pay guys 400K a season to be able to pick up blocks in the backfield. You pay guys millions and millions to be able to run a pattern down field, out of the backfield, and take it to the house.

If you want to think that Zeke's pass blocking is problematic then you go right ahead. Are you now saying he could not sustain blocks? He gave up zero sacks last year.

Fact of the matter is that a back is in a better position behind the line because of the ability to move across the formation. Inline you cannot do it and instead have to recognize what is going on and pass off down the line or someone free has to peel off the line and try to angle it like Fred does from time to time. Perhaps they did not teach you such things at Podunk State back in the 70s.

They mix it up and frankly Zeke missed most of TC and preseason last year if you recall. Throw in Swaim's injury and you get what you got. I too would be disappointed if they did not get him the ball via the pass more often but I see nothing untoward in the progress to this point.

 

[erod]

I actually think Broaddus has no point at all there. I mean, Elliott might be a heck of a blocking back but he's still a back. He still checks in at 225 or so and he is still at a disadvantage in picking up blocks because he has to find the free man and then has to get there and have the proper angle to get a block. Even if you are really good at picking up blocks, as a running back, you are still at a disadvantage because a TE or an OL is going to have size, length and much better angles to reach the block from. IMO, it's down right stupid to try and say that he is too important to the scheme as a blocker to be used in the passing game.

Here is the thing about Football. Either you attack or you defend. Doesn't matter which side of the ball, this is real for Offense or Defense. Aggressors are usually in a more advantageous situation. It's almost always better to force your opponent to adjust, rather then sitting back and waiting for it. If you use Zeke in the manner suggested, you are not attacking. You are adjusting and that's not how he should be used IMO. He is a weapon with a shelf life. You better be smart enough to understand this and use him to full advantage.

Huh?

An OL guy can't pick up a blitz if he's engaged with another guy. That's where Emmitt was brilliant, and Zeke is, too. Perhaps the most critical part of any passing game, in fact.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you want to think that Zeke's pass blocking is problematic then you go right ahead. Are you now saying he could not sustain blocks? He gave up zero sacks last year.

Fact of the matter is that a back is in a better position behind the line because of the ability to move across the formation. Inline you cannot do it and instead have to recognize what is going on and pass off down the line or someone free has to peel off the line and try to angle it like Fred does from time to time. Perhaps they did not teach you such things at Podunk State back in the 70s.

They mix it up and frankly Zeke missed most of TC and preseason last year if you recall. Throw in Swaim's injury and you get what you got. I too would be disappointed if they did not get him the ball via the pass more often but I see nothing untoward in the progress to this point.

OK, stop the bus. Show where I ever said that Zeke's blocking is problematic. This is what you always do. You try and change the discussion. The problem is not that Zeke can not block. The problem is that it's stupid to say that you should not use him in passing situations because his blocking is to vital to the scheme. That's utterly stupid.

As to your statement about backs picking up blocks, it's all wrong. You think that because a back can move to any point of attack, it's easier but it's not. First of all, you don't know if there is one free guy or two or a blitz or a zone blitz. It's always easier to assign a block and use multiple bigger stronger players to provide protection. The angles are much better because you are closer and you have the ability to get your hands on the rusher before he gets a head of steam. Everything you say there is wrong. Why don't you ever see Pro Set max protection anymore if backs are so much more effective at picking up blocks? Because it's not more effective but more then that, it's a bad idea to take your most effective Offensive weapons out of the game by using them to block.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Huh?

An OL guy can't pick up a blitz if he's engaged with another guy. That's where Emmitt was brilliant, and Zeke is, too. Perhaps the most critical part of any passing game, in fact.

If your OL is doing a good job, he doesn't have to. Especially if you have a mobile QB. Keeping backs in to block against the blitz isn't how you stop teams from blitzing your QB. Burning them for 6 is how stop that. Burning them for 1st downs is how you stop that. You have a guy who is capable of running routes like a WR and taking to the house and you want to keep him in to block? I mean honestly, does that make any real sense to you?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

OK, stop the bus. Show where I ever said that Zeke's blocking is problematic. This is what you always do. You try and change the discussion. The problem is not that Zeke can not block. The problem is that it's stupid to say that you should not use him in passing situations because his blocking is to vital to the scheme. That's utterly stupid.

As to your statement about backs picking up blocks, it's all wrong. You think that because a back can move to any point of attack, it's easier but it's not. First of all, you don't know if there is one free guy or two or a blitz or a zone blitz. It's always easier to assign a block and use multiple bigger stronger players to provide protection. The angles are much better because you are closer and you have the ability to get your hands on the rusher before he gets a head of steam. Everything you say there is wrong. Why don't you ever see Pro Set max protection anymore if backs are so much more effective at picking up blocks? Because it's not more effective but more then that, it's a bad idea to take your most effective Offensive weapons out of the game by using them to block.

You flat out said that he was at a disadvantage. You then brought up how chipping was different than sustaining blocks. If you cannot see how your statement casts doubt on his ability to sustain that is on you. As it was I simply asked you a question to clarify and on cue you put yourself right up on the cross.

I never said it was easy. I imagine a person with marginal athletic talent playing small school football would struggle to do it. OTOH, Zeke is the best I have seen at it in a long time. Meanwhile you say you can find street players that can do it for $400k. In the real world Zeke is consistent in power and finish doing it.

You seem to not understand how defenses attack blocking schemes. The goal is to engage blockers and send extra defenders into the gaps. That is the whole thing with with stunts, twists, and overload blitzing. Sure it's easier to block someone right in front of you but it is not easier to block someone when you are already engaged. Sure we have a couple guys who can block two guys at once but you seemed completely obtuse to what I mean about passing things down the line.

Further the free linemen has to move backwards to move laterally across the line which is a much tougher angle and the move robs you of power. The back is much better suited to deal with attacking NFL defenses.

Finally, I have seen plenty of 7 and 8 man protections. Coughlin does it all the time and there are others. We don't see it often here because our OL has been the best in the league the past several years. We never really have to double team anyone and go with hot reads when people send more than 5 rushers.