Scout's Notebook: Early Thoughts On Left Guard, Gathers' Opportunity; More

[Teague31]

I have a question?

With Green playing LG, and Bell playing RG, who's getting the 2nd team snaps at RT?

I have yet to hear any reports about that.

Cleary?

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

They should use him exactly the way they used him last season - until the playoff game when they wasted an opportunity

 

[Idgit]

They should use him exactly the way they used him last season - until the playoff game when they wasted an opportunity

They actually ran him at a higher rate in that playoff game than they did on average during the season. That's with being down 21-3, too.

Elliott runs the ball more than any back in the NFL (or did last year), and he's still only carrying it ~1/3 of the offensive snaps. He's not on the field another ~33% of the time. The rest of the time, he's blocking, releasing into a pattern, or both. With the play action they run with Dak, that's a fairly important role in the offense by itself. Not to mention the amount of joy he takes in laying a guy out in protection. It's a huge part of his game, and an underrated part of being an NFL running back these days.

 

[Stash]

Cleary?

As good a guess as any.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

They actually ran him at a higher rate in that playoff game than they did on average during the season. That's with being down 21-3, too.

Elliott runs the ball more than any back in the NFL (or did last year), and he's still only carrying it ~1/3 of the offensive snaps. He's not on the field another ~33% of the time. The rest of the time, he's blocking, releasing into a pattern, or both. With the play action they run with Dak, that's a fairly important role in the offense by itself. Not to mention the amount of joy he takes in laying a guy out in protection. It's a huge part of his game, and an underrated part of being an NFL running back these days.

I get what you're saying but my argument is they didn't use him much in the first half when they went down 21-3. There was a particular series where they had 2nd and short and passed the ball 2 times and ended up killing a drive.

It's the playoffs. Run him 35 times if you have to.

 

[xwalker]

OK, stop the bus. Show where I ever said that Zeke's blocking is problematic. This is what you always do. You try and change the discussion. The problem is not that Zeke can not block. The problem is that it's stupid to say that you should not use him in passing situations because his blocking is to vital to the scheme. That's utterly stupid.

As to your statement about backs picking up blocks, it's all wrong. You think that because a back can move to any point of attack, it's easier but it's not. First of all, you don't know if there is one free guy or two or a blitz or a zone blitz. It's always easier to assign a block and use multiple bigger stronger players to provide protection. The angles are much better because you are closer and you have the ability to get your hands on the rusher before he gets a head of steam. Everything you say there is wrong. Why don't you ever see Pro Set max protection anymore if backs are so much more effective at picking up blocks? Because it's not more effective but more then that, it's a bad idea to take your most effective Offensive weapons out of the game by using them to block.

NFL offenses are much more complicated than your description.

They don't use the same formation all the time. Some formation will put the RB in a likely blocking situation and some won't.

Sometimes they want the TE to run a route including the 2nd TE.

More "big" players on offense limits the possibilities that the defense has to cover.

Sometimes they pass from formations that they also run from. If a defense uses small players (more DBs) to cover that formation because of passing success, then they can run on those smaller defenders later.

Many pass blocks by RBs are on blitzes. If no blitz then they often run delayed pass patterns.

Some decisions with Zeke are about the fact they don't want to play him 100% of the snaps. If Zeke is significantly better than McFadden at blocking but they're more evenly matched as receivers, then the snaps McFadden receives may be more pass catching situations and less blocking situations.

Calling a game by an OC is more than just calling a play from a list. There are multiple levels of strategy involved and that includes how players are used and it's the big picture of how all players including how the backup RBs fit onto the big picture.

Having said all of that, Broaddus is not good at making clear points. I think his point in general was that if the backup RBs get snaps that maybe they should get more pass catching snaps than pass blocking snaps.

I'm fairly certain Broaddus didn't mean they should look for opportunities for Zeke to block more instead of TEs or a FB.

 

[ConstantReboot]

If your OL is doing a good job, he doesn't have to. Especially if you have a mobile QB. Keeping backs in to block against the blitz isn't how you stop teams from blitzing your QB. Burning them for 6 is how stop that. Burning them for 1st downs is how you stop that. You have a guy who is capable of running routes like a WR and taking to the house and you want to keep him in to block? I mean honestly, does that make any real sense to you?

Well if you keep Zeke in for pass protection and the oline picks up the blitz Zeke can easily go out onto the flats catch a pass and run it for a big game. Secondly, Zeke is such a weapon and the other team already knows how good of a blocker he is. Thus they will most likely not blitz if Zeke is there to block. Last of all, having Zeke in there keeps the defense guessing. Our offense has the option to give him the ball (run), run a play action (which commits the defense to play the run), run a screen, delay screen, Zeke stays on and pass protect (which keeps a defensive man on him as a spy).

Having Zeke in there is a weapon even though he doesn't run the ball. He can do everything so well that it gives defenses fits to defend against.

 

[Stash]

I get what you're saying but my argument is they didn't use him much in the first half when they went down 21-3. There was a particular series where they had 2nd and short and passed the ball 2 times and ended up killing a drive.

It's the playoffs. Run him 35 times if you have to.

And you are not alone in that point. Many of us saw those same mistakes made.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Man it's great to listen to all these NFL offensive coordinators in here this morning. But now I have to finish my coffee and get off to my real job.

 

[jazzcat22]

What the hell is Brian Broaddus' fascination with Joe Looney, anyway? I got nothing against the guy, but he had no shot at that starting LG position, but Brian keeps bringing it up as if it's something that might happen someday.

It is Broaddus being Broaddus...he is pretty good when he just reports things, "just the facts", as Joe Friday would say...., but when he try's to throw in a scouting opinion. he really shows why he is not a scout anymore.....

 

[jazzcat22]

I have a question?

With Green playing LG, and Bell playing RG, who's getting the 2nd team snaps at RT?

I have yet to hear any reports about that.

Probably Cleary? I think he becomes the swing tackle.

 

[big dog cowboy]

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/2...-guard-gathers-opportunity-more?sf100724736=1

Pretty good write up but I have one question.

Not one mention about the defense?

We know the offense is awesome already. It's the defense we're all interested in.

 

[Stash]

Probably Cleary? I think he becomes the swing tackle.

I'm hoping that Cleary sticks around. I liked what I saw from him last year, and I just can't bring myself to trust Chaz Green's health.

 

[Longboysfan]

I wonder how Ariz Card's scheme to get Johnson (rb) out in the pattern to catch as many balls as he does and still protect the qb..........I guess it would be a 3 step and out alot of times

to me...what is more wear and tear on Zeke who is already running the rock 24 plus a game.....

Well this is interesting.
Carson Palmer was sacked 40 times last year.
Dak was sacked 25.

I think if you went back and looked Palmer too more big shots when getting sacked than Dak.

So somewhere you need to make sure your Number 1 player get's protected and not to making sure the RB gets a few more catches.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

All that and you never once addressed my point about how DCs engage blockers and attack gaps beyond to restate my words and talk about something else. Maybe you played 40 years ago but your capacity to speak an informed opinion is limited.

At the end of the day a TE is not more suited to pass protection than a back behind the line when dealing with overloads on the weak side.

You said no one max protected and Coughlin was using max protection against D Ware and co regularly on his way to championships. Your narrative does not bear out to reality.

Because of the nature of spreading defenses with receivers on the flanks. A TE or H-back flanked outside is a better passing threat than a back lined up 7 yards behind the OL. You can use one back to take out the extra middle rusher and hot reads for the guys outside.

Here we go again. The only thing limited here is you. I never said nobody max protects. You said that. I said, based on your statements, why don't teams use split backs to max protect anymore? Conveniently, you changed it up again. Typical.

There is no reason to address what you write because it has nothing to do with the actual discussion. Read the thread!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

NFL offenses are much more complicated than your description.

They don't use the same formation all the time. Some formation will put the RB in a likely blocking situation and some won't.

Sometimes they want the TE to run a route including the 2nd TE.

More "big" players on offense limits the possibilities that the defense has to cover.

Sometimes they pass from formations that they also run from. If a defense uses small players (more DBs) to cover that formation because of passing success, then they can run on those smaller defenders later.

Many pass blocks by RBs are on blitzes. If no blitz then they often run delayed pass patterns.

Some decisions with Zeke are about the fact they don't want to play him 100% of the snaps. If Zeke is significantly better than McFadden at blocking but they're more evenly matched as receivers, then the snaps McFadden receives may be more pass catching situations and less blocking situations.

Calling a game by an OC is more than just calling a play from a list. There are multiple levels of strategy involved and that includes how players are used and it's the big picture of how all players including how the backup RBs fit onto the big picture.

Having said all of that, Broaddus is not good at making clear points. I think his point in general was that if the backup RBs get snaps that maybe they should get more pass catching snaps than pass blocking snaps.

I'm fairly certain Broaddus didn't mean they should look for opportunities for Zeke to block more instead of TEs or a FB.

Complicated or not, the idea that Zeke should not be used in the passing game and should be used as a blocker, "because he is too important to the scheme", is wrong. Everybody understand that Zeke has to block in certain situations, and I've said so repeatedly in this thread so I am really not certain where you are going with this.

If Broaddus meant what you suspect he meant, then he should of just said that. Based on what he said, that point is not clear to me but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt there. I mean, it's ridiculous to think that Zeke would not be used in the passing game because of his ability to pass block.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't agree. I played the position. You are not going to have the advantage because, you are always going to be the shortest guy and it is always going to be hard to locate where the free guy comes from.

Doesn't matter if he is bulled over or not. He's still 225. He is taking he hit on the blitz, he's not delivering it. A chip is not a block. It's a chip, you hit your guy and then you go out into the pattern or what have you. Sustaining a block and getting a chip on a guy are two very different things.

I mean, there are so many reasons why that is just a bad idea, to not use Zeke in the passing game. You pay guys 400K a season to be able to pick up blocks in the backfield. You pay guys millions and millions to be able to run a pattern down field, out of the backfield, and take it to the house.

He will not bull doze guys but blitzers coming free is often the job of the RB to prevent them from getting to the QB and Zeke has done just that. Emmitt Smith was the same way excellent at picking up the free rusher and keeping him off of Aikman.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well if you keep Zeke in for pass protection and the oline picks up the blitz Zeke can easily go out onto the flats catch a pass and run it for a big game. Secondly, Zeke is such a weapon and the other team already knows how good of a blocker he is. Thus they will most likely not blitz if Zeke is there to block. Last of all, having Zeke in there keeps the defense guessing. Our offense has the option to give him the ball (run), run a play action (which commits the defense to play the run), run a screen, delay screen, Zeke stays on and pass protect (which keeps a defensive man on him as a spy).

Having Zeke in there is a weapon even though he doesn't run the ball. He can do everything so well that it gives defenses fits to defend against.

This kinda gets back to the point I was trying to make earlier. If you are a DC and you know that you can take Zeke out of the passing game by simply blitzing, why wouldn't you do that? This kid has the ability to run patterns. With him, you don't simply have to settle for an outlet pass if you don't want to. He can actually get open and catch.

I agree that you can use him in that fashion and there is nothing wrong with that but I would not allow Defenses to dictate to us, how we use him.

That's just my opinion.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He will not bull doze guys but blitzers coming free is often the job of the RB to prevent them from getting to the QB and Zeke has done just that. Emmitt Smith was the same way excellent at picking up the free rusher and keeping him off of Aikman.

Dooms, come on, read the thread. Nobody ever said that this was not part of his job. In fact, I have said just the opposite multiple times. Read the thread.

 

[Doomsday101]

Dooms, come on, read the thread. Nobody ever said that this was not part of his job. In fact, I have said just the opposite multiple times. Read the thread.

I'm just saying how important that trait is at the position some guys can't do it, Zeke can and it is an asset that bodes well for the Cowboys.