Sean Peyton v. JG - The Grass Is Always Greener

LovinItAll

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,658
Reaction score
1,762
Food for thought......

There are many JG detractors here and throughout Cowboys fandom, and I've heard rumblings and musings about what life as a Cowboy fan would have been like with Sean Peyton at the helm, so I decided to do a little comparison.

Let's talk about won/loss records first. I'll use SP's record since 2012, Garrett's first full year as HC:

JG: Regular Season: 77-59 - 3 Playoff Appearances, 2-3 - No NFCCG - 3 Divisional Titles

SP: (Last 8 years) Regular Season - 76-60 - 4 Playoff Appearances - 4-3 - 1 NFCCG (today) - 1 Divisional Title

The nod goes to Garrett by just one game in the regular season. The Saints have been to the playoffs once more than the Cowboys, and they've won their first round game each time. We'll see today if the trend of losing their second playoff game continues when they face the Rams later today.

Garrett has had 1 losing season during his tenure, while Peyton has had 4 during the same time period. We had cries of mediocrity after three 8-8 seasons, with 3 'win and in' losses 2011-2013. I wonder what we would have heard about Peyton after he went 7-9 for 4 out of 5 seasons.

Numbers don't lie. SP has one extra playoff appearance and two additional wins. Is SP a 'better' coach? I'm betting the Garrett haters will be unequivocal with their answer, though unless one places ridiculously heavy weight on playoff appearances, they've had almost identical records.

It's worth noting that Peyton has had a HoF QB during his entire tenure, while Garrett has had Romo (possibly costing us 3 playoff appearances with his 'win and in' losses. One can choose to say that we wouldn't have had those opportunities if Romo hadn't 'carried the team' during those 8-8 seasons, but then what does that say about Brees during his 7-9 seasons?

Pete Carmichael has been the Saints OC since 2009. Using Cowboys fans logic, he should have been placed on the trash heap long ago. On the defensive side of the ball, there are some familiar names for the Saints: Rob Ryan, Steve Spagnuolo, and Dennis Allen, two of which have been head coaches in the NFL. We have Marinelli, also a former head coach. Take from that what you will.

Is Sean Peyton a better coach? Over the same time period, his regular season record says no (by a hair) and his playoff record says yes (by the same hair).
 

Parcells4Life

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,483
Reaction score
9,331
Add to that the Saints have only scored more than 20 points twice in the last 6 games.

They are far from this unstoppable offense.

They have 2 weapons. Kamara and Thomas. Everyone else can be stopped 1 on 1. But they have the toy Taysom Hill who’s a wildcard because he can play every position including QB
 

Sydla

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,688
Reaction score
91,134
Now compare it the right way, First 8 seasons to First 8 seasons. Oh wait, that means one made it to and coached a team to a win in the SB, thus spoiling your narrative. Far better to pick and choose.

Of course.
 

CowboyRoy

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,924
Reaction score
38,930
Food for thought......

There are many JG detractors here and throughout Cowboys fandom, and I've heard rumblings and musings about what life as a Cowboy fan would have been like with Sean Peyton at the helm, so I decided to do a little comparison.

Let's talk about won/loss records first. I'll use SP's record since 2012, Garrett's first full year as HC:

JG: Regular Season: 77-59 - 3 Playoff Appearances, 2-3 - No NFCCG - 3 Divisional Titles

SP: (Last 8 years) Regular Season - 76-60 - 4 Playoff Appearances - 4-3 - 1 NFCCG (today) - 1 Divisional Title

The nod goes to Garrett by just one game in the regular season. The Saints have been to the playoffs once more than the Cowboys, and they've won their first round game each time. We'll see today if the trend of losing their second playoff game continues when they face the Rams later today.

Garrett has had 1 losing season during his tenure, while Peyton has had 4 during the same time period. We had cries of mediocrity after three 8-8 seasons, with 3 'win and in' losses 2011-2013. I wonder what we would have heard about Peyton after he went 7-9 for 4 out of 5 seasons.

Numbers don't lie. SP has one extra playoff appearance and two additional wins. Is SP a 'better' coach? I'm betting the Garrett haters will be unequivocal with their answer, though unless one places ridiculously heavy weight on playoff appearances, they've had almost identical records.

It's worth noting that Peyton has had a HoF QB during his entire tenure, while Garrett has had Romo (possibly costing us 3 playoff appearances with his 'win and in' losses. One can choose to say that we wouldn't have had those opportunities if Romo hadn't 'carried the team' during those 8-8 seasons, but then what does that say about Brees during his 7-9 seasons?

Pete Carmichael has been the Saints OC since 2009. Using Cowboys fans logic, he should have been placed on the trash heap long ago. On the defensive side of the ball, there are some familiar names for the Saints: Rob Ryan, Steve Spagnuolo, and Dennis Allen, two of which have been head coaches in the NFL. We have Marinelli, also a former head coach. Take from that what you will.

Is Sean Peyton a better coach? Over the same time period, his regular season record says no (by a hair) and his playoff record says yes (by the same hair).

So you cant tell who is better?
 

Jake

Beyond tired of Jerry
Messages
36,067
Reaction score
84,350
Food for thought......

There are many JG detractors here and throughout Cowboys fandom, and I've heard rumblings and musings about what life as a Cowboy fan would have been like with Sean Peyton at the helm, so I decided to do a little comparison.

Let's talk about won/loss records first. I'll use SP's record since 2012, Garrett's first full year as HC:

JG: Regular Season: 77-59 - 3 Playoff Appearances, 2-3 - No NFCCG - 3 Divisional Titles

SP: (Last 8 years) Regular Season - 76-60 - 4 Playoff Appearances - 4-3 - 1 NFCCG (today) - 1 Divisional Title

The nod goes to Garrett by just one game in the regular season. The Saints have been to the playoffs once more than the Cowboys, and they've won their first round game each time. We'll see today if the trend of losing their second playoff game continues when they face the Rams later today.

Garrett has had 1 losing season during his tenure, while Peyton has had 4 during the same time period. We had cries of mediocrity after three 8-8 seasons, with 3 'win and in' losses 2011-2013. I wonder what we would have heard about Peyton after he went 7-9 for 4 out of 5 seasons.

Numbers don't lie. SP has one extra playoff appearance and two additional wins. Is SP a 'better' coach? I'm betting the Garrett haters will be unequivocal with their answer, though unless one places ridiculously heavy weight on playoff appearances, they've had almost identical records.

It's worth noting that Peyton has had a HoF QB during his entire tenure, while Garrett has had Romo (possibly costing us 3 playoff appearances with his 'win and in' losses. One can choose to say that we wouldn't have had those opportunities if Romo hadn't 'carried the team' during those 8-8 seasons, but then what does that say about Brees during his 7-9 seasons?

Pete Carmichael has been the Saints OC since 2009. Using Cowboys fans logic, he should have been placed on the trash heap long ago. On the defensive side of the ball, there are some familiar names for the Saints: Rob Ryan, Steve Spagnuolo, and Dennis Allen, two of which have been head coaches in the NFL. We have Marinelli, also a former head coach. Take from that what you will.

Is Sean Peyton a better coach? Over the same time period, his regular season record says no (by a hair) and his playoff record says yes (by the same hair).

He's had Drew Brees his entire head coaching career. Brees already had 58 starts under his belt when he signed with New Orleans.

So this "great coach" never had to break in a rookie QB, has had the benefit of a future hall of famer at the position, and still has managed five seasons of .500 or worse and only 1 SB. If your (not the OP) only response is "he's better than JG" that's not much of a response.
 

cowboyblue22

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,926
Reaction score
8,606
Food for thought......

There are many JG detractors here and throughout Cowboys fandom, and I've heard rumblings and musings about what life as a Cowboy fan would have been like with Sean Peyton at the helm, so I decided to do a little comparison.

Let's talk about won/loss records first. I'll use SP's record since 2012, Garrett's first full year as HC:

JG: Regular Season: 77-59 - 3 Playoff Appearances, 2-3 - No NFCCG - 3 Divisional Titles

SP: (Last 8 years) Regular Season - 76-60 - 4 Playoff Appearances - 4-3 - 1 NFCCG (today) - 1 Divisional Title

The nod goes to Garrett by just one game in the regular season. The Saints have been to the playoffs once more than the Cowboys, and they've won their first round game each time. We'll see today if the trend of losing their second playoff game continues when they face the Rams later today.

Garrett has had 1 losing season during his tenure, while Peyton has had 4 during the same time period. We had cries of mediocrity after three 8-8 seasons, with 3 'win and in' losses 2011-2013. I wonder what we would have heard about Peyton after he went 7-9 for 4 out of 5 seasons.

Numbers don't lie. SP has one extra playoff appearance and two additional wins. Is SP a 'better' coach? I'm betting the Garrett haters will be unequivocal with their answer, though unless one places ridiculously heavy weight on playoff appearances, they've had almost identical records.

It's worth noting that Peyton has had a HoF QB during his entire tenure, while Garrett has had Romo (possibly costing us 3 playoff appearances with his 'win and in' losses. One can choose to say that we wouldn't have had those opportunities if Romo hadn't 'carried the team' during those 8-8 seasons, but then what does that say about Brees during his 7-9 seasons?

Pete Carmichael has been the Saints OC since 2009. Using Cowboys fans logic, he should have been placed on the trash heap long ago. On the defensive side of the ball, there are some familiar names for the Saints: Rob Ryan, Steve Spagnuolo, and Dennis Allen, two of which have been head coaches in the NFL. We have Marinelli, also a former head coach. Take from that what you will.

Is Sean Peyton a better coach? Over the same time period, his regular season record says no (by a hair) and his playoff record says yes (by the same hair).
he also has a superbowl trophy and that trumps every thing garrett has done by a long shot
 

Stash

Staff member
Messages
78,331
Reaction score
102,213
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
He's had Drew Brees his entire head coaching career. Brees already had 58 starts under his belt when he signed with New Orleans.

So this "great coach" never had to break in a rookie QB, has had the benefit of a future hall of famer at the position, and still has managed five seasons of .500 or worse and only 1 SB. If your (not the OP) only response is "he's better than JG" that's not much of a response.

Why exactly is Brees this "future hall of famer" you keep mentioning? He sure wasn't in San Diego. He was an injured, 62% completion quarterback who anyone could have signed. And Saban, Garrett, and Linehan passed on signing him in Miami. Does Payton get no credit for that?
 

JustChip

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,124
Reaction score
5,715
If Garrett had a Super bowl on his resume I don't think many would be complaining as much

Not if that Super Bowl win was 10 years ago and he had the same record since that he's had in New Orleans.

I don't know exactly what the point is that the OP is making. Is it JG is a better or equal coach? Or is it that the vast, vast, vast majority of fans are just simply irrational?

What most people fail to recognize is situations matter. Payton had the play calling taken away from him (sound familiar) as OC with the NYG and would've been fired had the Big Tuna not hired him here. Did he learn from his time as an OC there and improved because of it, or was it the circumstances in NY that caused his "failure" there? Point is, swap JG and SP in NO and Dallas and maybe Dallas has the Super Bowl and New Orleans doesn't, but it's certainly conceivable the results remained the same. Or that Dallas fires JG and he becomes HC somewhere else and wins a Super Bowl because of what he's learned on the job here.
 

lonestar2288

Active Member
Messages
208
Reaction score
166
First, if you are gonna compare stats that way, why not start with the yr Garrett really started coaching 2011. Second, to be accurate do first 8 through first 8. Either way Payton would hold the better record in both regular and post season. Kudos for wanting to start a few yrs after Payton's SB win though, maybe some won't remember he won one
 

blueblood70

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,220
Reaction score
26,816
First, if you are gonna compare stats that way, why not start with the yr Garrett really started coaching 2011. Second, to be accurate do first 8 through first 8. Either way Payton would hold the better record in both regular and post season. Kudos for wanting to start a few yrs after Payton's SB win though, maybe some won't remember he won one

those on the OP are correct , there isn't a VAST enough difference especially given the fact that SP has had a HOF QB the entire time and supposedly not the dysfunctional ownership and GM issue we allegedly have here..hes pointing out that while there is small difference , JG is not the horrible joke of coach we all try to make him out to be in here..

the poster want trying to say Jasons the same or better hes saying that Garetts numbers the 8 years hes been HC against the same time frame are so close if you call SP great you have to at least acknowledge Jason's good..

we all want to see change but ive pointed out for years this teams W-L column is top 5 or 6 in wins in the entire NFL for the Regular season.. some want changes in hopes of a SB , not blaming them, id like the next step but all those that keep claiming how mediocre we are , how our HC sucks, and the front off ice and GM are joke should take the hate glasses off..the argument about our Bar being set higher is ridiculous, facts are facts there are so many more teams out there over the last 8 years that are horrible and we are not one of them..
 

Big_D

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,767
Reaction score
14,718
Some really go to great lengths to defend this garbage! I don’t even care what color the grass is on the other side at this point, this clown needs to be gone in order to actually win anything besides moral victories and participation trophies.
 

Dodger12

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,142
Reaction score
3,532
He's had Drew Brees his entire head coaching career. Brees already had 58 starts under his belt when he signed with New Orleans.

So this "great coach" never had to break in a rookie QB, has had the benefit of a future hall of famer at the position, and still has managed five seasons of .500 or worse and only 1 SB. If your (not the OP) only response is "he's better than JG" that's not much of a response.

You act like SP inherited Brees like JG inherited Romo. SP had to really rebuild that dumpster fire. He took over a team that was 3 and 13 and he had to find a franchise QB (tried to get Romo). He took them from 3 and 13 to 10 and 6 and won a playoff game.

Where do you people come up with this stuff? You JG bootlickers compare him to Landry, BB and now Payton. If Garrett had won a SB, he'd be getting the benefit of the doubt but Garrett defenders are relegated to comparing "winning seasons." Bush league stuff right there.
 

lonestar2288

Active Member
Messages
208
Reaction score
166
I appreciate the fact of regular season wins. I can even appreciate, scratch that, respect the fact that Garrett has generated that under such scrutiny. But Garrett leaves a lot to be desired in many peoples eyes in the post season. But, if stats are the important factor, I'll leave it at this. Garrett's career winning percentage is .566, but only .400 in postseason. That's not even average. Realize Mike McCarthy got fired before the end of the season with a .618 regular season and .558 post season record. Standards cant ne measured in stats alone. And yes I'd take Payton over Garrett any day
 
Top