Shanahan wants to consult? Bring him here, Sir Jones!

[erod]

Give it a rest with this revisionist history garbage already.

The "craptastic roster" that overmatched Garrett inherited had 10 Pro Bowl players on it. This utter nonsense about him inheriting a poor roster and then having to build is a load of crap. As well as this misguided notion that Garrett was somehow this 'driving force' behind this team's drafting of offensive linemen. Nothing more than a bunch of lies told in a vain effort to prop up an underperforming coach.

Bull.

The Cowboys were patch-working the likes of Alex Barron, Nate Livings, Cory Proctor, and Pat McQuistan, along with past-their-prime dinosaurs like Gurode, Kosier, Adams, and Davis.

It was constant duct tape and super glue as Jerry continued to ignore areas that couldn't sell jerseys in the pro shop.

And pro bowls mean absolutely nothing. Roy Williams went a ton, and he was gawd awful.

 

[Stash]

Bull.

The Cowboys were patch-working the likes of Alex Barron, Nate Livings, Cory Proctor, and Pat McQuistan, along with past-their-prime dinosaurs like Gurode, Kosier, Adams, and Davis.

It was constant duct tape and super glue as Jerry continued to ignore areas that couldn't sell jerseys in the pro shop.

And pro bowls mean absolutely nothing. Roy Williams went a ton, and he was gawd awful.

You keep telling yourself that nonsense, just spare the rest of us from having to read it. The only thing "craptastic" is the job Garrett has done, with teams that consistantly had more than enough talent to win.

Garrett's failures are Garrett's failures and these revisionist history attempts are both pathetic and sad. But most of all, they're categorically false.

 

[JoeKing]

Not a fan of that man.

 

[Longboysfan]

I'll take his RB notes.

And zone blocking schemes.

 

[KJJ]

Look at the craptastic roster he inherited. If nothing else, he purged that mess of old, ill-fitting pieces that Jerry had collected, and he encouraged building an offensive line and a young roster. Jerry listened to Garrett on that front, which was a big change from before.

The roster he inherited went 11-5 the year before and won a playoff game for the first time in 13 years. The team he took over in week 10 of the 2010 season went 5-3 with 2 backup QBs and had a win on the road against a Peyton Manning led Colts team picking Manning off 4 times. Five years later after a complete roster overhaul Garrett could only manage 1-11 with 3 backup QBs with the team he's had a hand in building. The craptasitic roster you're referring to that he inherited in 2010 had a franchise QB, the top pass rusher in the league, one of the top TEs in the league who's a HOF lock and one of the most talented young rookie WRs in the league and he could only manage 8-8 three straight seasons. If you want to see a craptasitic roster look at the one Landry started off with.

The team Landry was handed in 1960 is ranked in the top 10 worst teams in NFL history. He didn't even have a draft pick his first year. The Cowboys clearly progressed under Landry and they're not progressing under Garrett. See if you can find a head coach in the league who's only had one winning/playoff season the past 5 years and is still coaching the same team other than Garrett. Jerry listened to Garrett by bringing in Kiffin and Marinneli and has the defense improved any? After 5 full seasons with Garrett as the head coach the Cowboys are coming off their worst season in 26 years. Not even Dave Campo's teams ever lost as many as 12 games and his QB situation for 3 years was worse than ours last season.

Compare the talent on Campo's teams to the talent Garrett has been working with for the past 5 seasons. Campo could have only dreamed of having a Tony Romo, Demarcus Ware, Jason Witten and a Dez Bryant along with arguably the best OL in the entire league. There's no excuses for how far the Cowboys fell in 2015. A lot of teams dealt with injuries to their QB including Denver and that didn't stop them. You find out how well coached a team is when they face adversity and this team folded under adversity and it has Garrett on the hot seat in 2016.

 

[erod]

You keep telling yourself that nonsense, just spare the rest of us from having to read it. The only thing "craptastic" is the job Garrett has done, with teams that consistantly had more than enough talent to win.

Garrett's failures are Garrett's failures and these revisionist history attempts are both pathetic and sad. But most of all, they're categorically false.

You want Hardy, but you don't want Garrett.

Duly noted.

 

[erod]

The roster he inherited went 11-5 the year before and won a playoff game for the first time in 13 years. The team he took over in week 10 of the 2010 season went 5-3 with 2 backup QBs and had a win on the road against a Peyton Manning led Colts team picking Manning off 4 times. Five years later after a complete roster overhaul Garrett could only manage 1-11 with 3 backup QBs with the team he's had a hand in building. The craptasitic roster you're referring to that he inherited in 2010 had a franchise QB, the top pass rusher in the league, one of the top TEs in the league who's a HOF lock and one of the most talented young rookie WRs in the league and he could only manage 8-8 three straight seasons. If you want to see a craptasitic roster look at the one Landry started off with.

The team Landry was handed in 1960 is ranked in the top 10 worst teams in NFL history. He didn't even have a draft pick his first year. The Cowboys clearly progressed under Landry and they're not progressing under Garrett. See if you can find a head coach in the league who's only had one winning/playoff season the past 5 years and is still coaching the same team other than Garrett. Jerry listened to Garrett by bringing in Kiffin and Marinneli and has the defense improved any? After 5 full seasons with Garrett as the head coach the Cowboys are coming off their worst season in 26 years. Not even Dave Campo's teams ever lost as many as 12 games and his QB situation for 3 years was worse than ours last season.

Compare the talent on Campo's teams to the talent Garrett has been working with for the past 5 seasons. Campo could have only dreamed of having a Tony Romo, Demarcus Ware, Jason Witten and a Dez Bryant along with arguably the best OL in the entire league. There's no excuses for how far the Cowboys fell in 2015. A lot of teams dealt with injuries to their QB including Denver and that didn't stop them. You find out how well coached a team is when they face adversity and this team folded under adversity and it has Garrett on the hot seat in 2016.

Yes, a thrown-together squad that managed an 11-5 record that ended in an embarrassing 34-3 collapse in Minnesota.

Brooking, James, Ratliff, Spears, Olshansky, Gurode, Kosier, Davis, Columbo, Barber, Adams, Livings, Roy UT Williams, Jenkins, Sensabaugh, Crayton, Austin, Hurd, Watkins, Ball......

That team was in old, injured, and in major need of an overhaul. Romo is lucky he's still alive.

 

[Stash]

You want Hardy, but you don't want Garrett.

Duly noted.

Which has nothing to do with this conversation. Note that too. As well as the fact that one of them has actually accomplished things in this league and been recognized for it while the other has proven to be nothing but average.

 

[Stash]

Yes, a thrown-together squad that managed an 11-5 record that ended in an embarrassing 34-3 collapse in Minnesota.

Brooking, James, Ratliff, Spears, Olshansky, Gurode, Kosier, Davis, Columbo, Barber, Adams, Livings, Roy UT Williams, Jenkins, Sensabaugh, Crayton, Austin, Hurd, Watkins, Ball......

That team was in old, injured, and in major need of an overhaul. Romo is lucky he's still alive.

Pathetic that you'll list those names (while trying to hide the others) and consider it anything other than the obvious indictment against your overmatched coach that it is.

 

[Doomsday]

He was always better at coaching than he was at player personnel.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

To compare him with Tom Landry is the purest definition of absurdity every posted on this board.

That is a superb job of minimizing an often-great coach in a solid coaching career.

I guess we can just ignore who has the most Super Bowl rings, correct there bloke?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Well, the consensus by the rabble is: Stay away, Mike Shanahan, we are doing just fine without your consulting!
Clearly, we like mediocre. Clearly, we like our station in NFL life. Love our roster of journeymen sprinkled with a few aging stars. Clearly we like our brain trust, including the universally revered McClay and Lacewell, the Salieri to Sir Jones.
Well, some fan bases like improvements, some do not. Pity. And the Cowboys franchise used to be respected.

 

[KJJ]

Yes, a thrown-together squad that managed an 11-5 record that ended in an embarrassing 34-3 collapse in Minnesota.

Brooking, James, Ratliff, Spears, Olshansky, Gurode, Kosier, Davis, Columbo, Barber, Adams, Livings, Roy UT Williams, Jenkins, Sensabaugh, Crayton, Austin, Hurd, Watkins, Ball......

That team was in old, injured, and in major need of an overhaul. Romo is lucky he's still alive.

What's more embarrassing going 11-5 and winning your division and a playoff game in a blowout and then being blown out in the divisional round or sitting home for the playoffs at 4-12 playing in arguably the worst division in the entire league? The 2015 Cowboys just suffered through their worst season since 1989 and had the longest losing streak since that season that's what I call embarrassing! All those players you listed were better players than Campo had during his 3 year tenure. Go review his rosters and all the scrub QBs he went through and not once did the organization suffer as miserable a season as they did last season. Although the roster Garrett inherited had some age the corp group led by Romo, Ware and Witten were in the prime of their careers and we had just added one of the most talented rookie WRs in the league in Dez Bryant.

In Garrett's first full season as the head coach in 2011 Ware had 19.5 sacks and Romo's 102.5 passer rating was a career high at the time but the Cowboys could only manage an 8-8 season. How is that possible? After a major overhaul the team looks worse now than it did prior to Garrett taking over. What does that tell you? Our secondary is worse than ever Claiborne and Carr have only combined for 9 INT's the past 4 years and the two corners we got rid of Pacman and Newman have combined for 17 INT's since they left the Cowboys. Since we made the decision to dump Ware our sacks and pressures have gone down. We're allowing our best players to move on because they were too pricy and are making it a priority to hang on to average players like Claiborne because they're cheap.

Romo has taken more of a beating since Garrett took over than he ever did under Parcells or Wade. Since Garrett took over Romo's had two separate back injuries one requiring surgery and had the same collarbone broken twice in a matter of weeks. Despite an OL that's better than any Romo has played behind we can't keep him healthy because he's having to carry the team. We have no offense without him and our defense never improves despite all the roster moves we make. Romo's WRs aren't getting open which is why Dunbar was his leading receiver last season. In 2010 we won 5 games with 2 backup QBs because the team stepped up with players fearing for their jobs after taking a tongue lashing from Jerry.

Ever since then he and Garrett have been doing nothing but coddling the players praising their effort after every loss. Garrett looks like a broken bobblehead doll on the sidelines clapping his hands every time his players **** up. He sounds like a broken record in his post game pressers talking about how the team scratched, clawed and fought to another loss. He's part of what's wrong with this team and until Jerry puts his ego aside and moves along from this experiment that's blowing up in his face just making the playoffs will be a monumental task.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Didn't say it didn't count. I just said it doesn't make him great by any measure. Same goes for Holmgren, Dungy, Billick, McCarthy, Payton, Tomlin, or Kubiak.

Landry very nearly won four Super Bowls, and perhaps 5 or 6 if not for the Green Bay Packers, Jackie Smith, and some horrible officiating and luck against the Colts. (Go read about that one.) And go read up on the days of when Landry and Lombardi were the coordinators for the New York Giants.

Then we're closer to agreement than we've realized. I don't think Shanahan is going to go down in history as a great coach along with Landry, Lombardi, Noll, Shula, Brown (I'm sure I'm forgetting someone). I'm only saying the fact of his winning two Super Bowls with the same elite QB does not invalidate his success. I think he was an excellent coach, but not a great. He didn't innovate to the point where he changed the game. He did turn around a Wade Phillips Broncos team that was pretty bad at the time and make them a champion.

I also agree with others here that we should not bring him in as a consultant. That would be cutting your coach off at the knees. Right now it's live by Garrett/die by Garrett. (Time for his exit at the end of the season if it's another .500 or losing record IMO).

I know all about the bad officiating in Super Bowl V. The thing is, some of Landry's weaknesses showed up in that season and in that game. It took him a long time to realize that Staubach was by far a better quarterback than Morton. Morton was a good quarterback, and was attractive to Landry because he was more of a classic pocket passer that didn't improvise much while Staubach was a freak of nature who brought amazing scrambling and ability to escape to the table. I have no doubt that the Cowboys would have won Super Bowl V if Staubach had been starting that season and started that game. I also know all about Landry and Lombardi's time together with the New York Giants. That team had a dream team OC/DC coordinator and probably didn't realize it at the time.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Or Wentz or a Goff.

I have severe doubts about this coaching staff's ability to successfully develop our next QB.

Nobody could be impressed with the Kitnas, Ortons, Weedens and Cassels we have decided were the answer or the fact we need somebody to immediately be a backup ready and prepared to take over from Romo..

they have just completely failed there.

During the 8-8 seasons were Romo struggled and couldn't get us across the finish line in those years..

we had nobody to put in that might have made a difference.

We had to live or die with Romo.

Never see that in NE or Denver or GB or NY.

They have somebody who can win if they have to play them.

So..

I want to see this change going forward.

I would like to thank you for consistently writing informed, logical and good analyses. I always look forward to your posts. Keep up the good work, lad, and keep writing the truth.

 

[Redball Express]

I would like to thank you for consistently writing informed, logical and good analyses. I always look forward to your posts. Keep up the good work, lad, and keep writing the truth.

Back at ya, bro.

We all do not agree but like it or nor..

we are all in this together.

Our job is to stir the pot and mix the drinks.

Sort of like Jerrah's valet on the bus.

 

[jobberone]

You keep telling yourself that nonsense, just spare the rest of us from having to read it. The only thing "craptastic" is the job Garrett has done, with teams that consistantly had more than enough talent to win.

Garrett's failures are Garrett's failures and these revisionist history attempts are both pathetic and sad. But most of all, they're categorically false.

@erod and I don't always agree but he has a good point which you ignored. There was a reason that team went 1-7 and please don't lay it all on Phillips then turn around and blame Garrett, too. Also, looking at that roster retrospectively says a lot.

And please don't attack me as a Garrett apologist because I'm not. I just try to be fair, balanced and objective. Been on the fence with this guy for awhile with the occasional lean in one direction or the other. And that says a lot because we all could either love the guy or he could already be gone. So Garrett hasn't arrived in the NFL coaching circle.....not yet anyway.

 

[Stash]

@erod and I don't always agree but he has a good point which you ignored. There was a reason that team went 1-7 and please don't lay it all on Phillips then turn around and blame Garrett, too. Also, looking at that roster retrospectively says a lot.

Really? What was that point? Referring to a roster where 10 guys were considered Pro Bowl talents "craptastic" in yet another effort to make it look like Garrett had the odds stacked against him when it isn't true and never has been? If you have another theory about why that team went 1-7 I'd ben fine with hearing it, as long as it doesn't include it being bereft of talent because that's clearly not the case.

And please don't attack me as a Garrett apologist because I'm not. I just try to be fair, balanced and objective. Been on the fence with this guy for awhile with the occasional lean in one direction or the other. And that says a lot because we all could either love the guy or he could already be gone. So Garrett hasn't arrived in the NFL coaching circle.....not yet anyway.

I'm not attacking anyone, even people who I may vehemently disagree with. This is conversation in type and it's not always easy to communicate attitude and context here but I realize that ultimately and most importantly, we're all human beings entitled to our own opinions and all Cowboys fans who ultimately want the same things, even if we may disagree on the how's and whys of things.

 

[jobberone]

http://i471.***BLOCKED***/albums/rr75/jobberone/Screen%20Shot%202016-04-04%20at%203.43.10%20PM_zpsmtsfjxna.png

Look at that roster now and tell me where all the great players are.

Romo played 6 games. Ta da. Then you have Witten. Love Davis and Colombo but they were has beens. Free is above average but not a great deal. Spencer was steady, Ratliff was out of position, Ware is a given and Newman was hurt enough to not play well enough.

That's it. A bunch of good guys who played hard but hardly anywhere near what you're espousing.

And I don't think Garrett is overachieving although he did with that crew the rest of that year. He's just got enough talent esp at QB to put a pretty good team on the field. We're still running a talent deficit on defense.

 

[jday]

Mike Shanahan, in a very good interview with Jenny Vrentas, says the following:

"Would I really want to be a head coach? Not really. The more I look at it, I think I could help a team more at this point in my career as a consultant. Not as a head coach, but helping ownership put a team together, because you do feel you have an eye for what it takes to win a championship."

Great football minds like Shanahan's do not come around often. Sir Jones, I would absolutely love to have this ex-coach around as a consultant. Sir Jones, do you have anybody better on your staff right now? I would say no.
Please baby, please baby, baby, baby please!

His insights are intriguing:


http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/31/mike-shanahan-nfl-washington-rg3-robert-griffin-browns

When did Jerry get knighted?