SI slant on Turner: Wrong Man

Angus

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Wrong man for the job
Turner's past shows he won't help Chargers' present
Posted: Monday February 19, 2007 3:34PM; Updated: Monday February 19, 2007 3:47PM


The never-ending feud between San Diego general manager A.J. Smith and head coach Marty Schottenheimer was bad enough, even before Schottenheimer was fired last week, but the team's decision to name 49ers offensive coordinator Norv Turner as its new head coach is worse. Hands down.

The problem here is that Turner, while being one of the nicest gentlemen you'll ever meet in the NFL, simply is not an effective head coach. He proved that in Washington, where he went 49-59-1 with the Commanders from 1994 to 2000. He proved it again in Oakland, where he lost games (a 9-23 record) and his team's respect in a matter of two years. Now that he has his third shot at leading a team, I'm pretty sure he's going to confirm one more time that he's not the man for this kind of job, regardless of how much talent he inherits in San Diego.

Here's what makes this situation mystifying: everything Turner did -- or didn't do -- as a head coach seemed to evaporate as soon as a couple of head coaching vacancies opened up around the NFL. The Dallas Cowboys were seriously considering him for their job before they hired former Chargers defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, and now the Chargers have fallen in love with him. Turner was a valuable offensive coordinator in both organizations at one point, but that's the only thing he has going for him at this stage of his career. And that really isn't much when you think about what the Chargers are asking him to do, which is take the team to a Super Bowl.

After all, for every lesson that Turner provided to a Hall-of-Famer such as former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, there are probably 15 or 20 low points that any Washington Commanders fan easily can recall during his tenure with that team. For a coach who's built a reputation for molding an innovative offensive system that has produced huge years for stars the likes of Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Ricky Williams and LaDainian Tomlinson, Turner inexplicably couldn't get more out of Randy Moss during the '05 season, Moss' first year in Oakland.

The point here is that it's a crippling mistake for San Diego to think Turner has escaped that maddening cycle. The fact is that his best role on any team is that of offensive coordinator. He's more gifted at crafting plays than rallying a team. He's better at relating to a quarterback than communication with a roster of 53 players. I realize that Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy struck a major blow for mild-mannered coaches everywhere, but that doesn't mean that everybody with a low-key personality can lead their team to a Super Bowl. Moss was so disgusted with Turner by the end of '05 that he stormed out of Turner's last meeting with the team.

Now I seriously doubt that any player in San Diego will pull that same stunt. That team is filled with plenty of class acts who understand what it takes to win. But don't for a minute think they aren't capable of tuning out a coach who isn't capable of reaching them. Remember, this team isn't guaranteed to repeat their 14-2 record of this past season. They followed a 12-4 campaign in '04 by missing the playoffs entirely in '05, so they could easily take a step backwards. And if they start slowly, I don't see Turner as the man who can steady that team and push it back in the right direction.

Simply put, Turner is a wingman by nature. Put him next to a dynamic, cutthroat personality such as his former boss in Dallas, Jimmy Johnson, and the man will shine. It's within that role that his true gifts reveal themselves, his ability to become a dependable confidant who can wrangle every last bit of potential out of a talented athlete. I saw that with the way Turner handled 49ers quarterback Alex Smith this past season in San Francisco. After one offseason of working with Turner, Smith transformed himself from a quarterback who had no clue of how to succeed in the NFL as a rookie to a confident, effective signal-caller in his second year. That's what a Norv Turner can do for a team.

What he can't do is change his track record or his nature. The bottom line here is that the Chargers don't need a head coach who can develop young players. They need a head coach who can take all their collective talent and guide it to a championship. There were certainly justifiable questions as to whether Schottenheimer would ever be that guy. But if the people in San Diego think they found an upgrade with the hiring of Turner, they need to start preparing for plenty of disappointment.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/02/19/turner/index.html
 

Stash

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I'm glad the Chargers are getting "equal criticism" rather than praise for something Dallas would have been ripped for.

There's now an interesting dynamic between the two teams. If San Diego had fired Schottenheimer earlier, Wade Phillips would have been their head coach. And in all likelihood, Jerry would have hired Norv.

It will be interesting to see where each franchise goes now.
 

DLCassidy

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Naturally I think that's a great article because I agree with every word of it.:laugh1:
 

sago1

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It might work out for them IF and that's a BIG IF their new DC is Cottrell. He'd be in charge of getting the best out of their defense while Norv could devote himself to the offense. However, do agree that if they don't start strong it might be a tough year. I'm glad we got Phillips cause we need him to move our defense into the upper defensive echelon in the NFL and for an entire season, including the offseason. Our offense did much better then we expected last year once Romo took over but our OL problems continued to haunt Romo lwhen he forced to move out of the pocket so often which I think combined with his lack of ball security near end of season contributed to our drop off winning record. We also need Garrett to help harness Romo's abilities but ensure he practices better ball security and gets rid of that Favre mentality. Hopefully we will also get good performances from TO & Glenn along with Crayton and really find out if Hurd & Austin have legit starting WR abilities. Who knows, maybe even Julius Jones will thrive with Garrett & Soprano calling the shots.
 

cowboyed

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DLCassidy;1383224 said:
Naturally I think that's a great article because I agree with every word of it.:laugh1:

They probably cut and paste this article previously slated for the Cowboys hiring Norv.
 

baj1dallas

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It's funny that they replace Marty with a guy who has even less success in the playoffs. OTOH he should be able to help Rivers advance his career so it sorta makes sense. But this is really just the GM taking control of the organization.
 

AsthmaField

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All I can say is: "Thank God he's in San Diego and not Dallas!"

We REALLY made the right choice in Phillips.
 

tyke1doe

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stasheroo;1383212 said:
I'm glad the Chargers are getting "equal criticism" rather than praise for something Dallas would have been ripped for.

There's now an interesting dynamic between the two teams. If San Diego had fired Schottenheimer earlier, Wade Phillips would have been their head coach. And in all likelihood, Jerry would have hired Norv.

It will be interesting to see where each franchise goes now.

Would be a very interesting story if both teams make it to the Super Bowl next year. :D
 

Chocolate Lab

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Great article.

BTW, on the local ESPN radio they've been playing little snippets of Norv's comments to the media, and IMO they sound so pathetic. The poor guy can barely speak straight -- all he does is mumble and stumble. No wonder he's a failure as a HC. The players have to be thinking, "This is our leader?"

I hate to trash the guy on something he can't help, but my gawd, he is so unsuited to be a head coach.
 

5Stars

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Chocolate Lab;1383532 said:
Great article.

BTW, on the local ESPN radio they've been playing little snippets of Norv's comments to the media, and IMO they sound so pathetic. The poor guy can barely speak straight -- all he does is mumble and stumble. No wonder he's a failure as a HC. The players have to be thinking, "This is our leader?"

I hate to trash the guy on something he can't help, but my gawd, he is so unsuited to be a head coach.


There have been studies done that suggest that, people that are better looking then others, seem to get more chances in life...(not saying Turner is ugly).

However, public scrunity can be a downfall, no matter if you are good looking and dumb, or whether you are not so good looking but are smart. Turner just does not convey his persona very well...he seem to humble.

Good luck, coach...

:star:
 

philo beddoe

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Angus;1383177 said:
Wrong man for the job
Turner's past shows he won't help Chargers' present
Posted: Monday February 19, 2007 3:34PM; Updated: Monday February 19, 2007 3:47PM


The never-ending feud between San Diego general manager A.J. Smith and head coach Marty Schottenheimer was bad enough, even before Schottenheimer was fired last week, but the team's decision to name 49ers offensive coordinator Norv Turner as its new head coach is worse. Hands down.

The problem here is that Turner, while being one of the nicest gentlemen you'll ever meet in the NFL, simply is not an effective head coach. He proved that in Washington, where he went 49-59-1 with the Commanders from 1994 to 2000. He proved it again in Oakland, where he lost games (a 9-23 record) and his team's respect in a matter of two years. Now that he has his third shot at leading a team, I'm pretty sure he's going to confirm one more time that he's not the man for this kind of job, regardless of how much talent he inherits in San Diego.

Here's what makes this situation mystifying: everything Turner did -- or didn't do -- as a head coach seemed to evaporate as soon as a couple of head coaching vacancies opened up around the NFL. The Dallas Cowboys were seriously considering him for their job before they hired former Chargers defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, and now the Chargers have fallen in love with him. Turner was a valuable offensive coordinator in both organizations at one point, but that's the only thing he has going for him at this stage of his career. And that really isn't much when you think about what the Chargers are asking him to do, which is take the team to a Super Bowl.

After all, for every lesson that Turner provided to a Hall-of-Famer such as former Dallas Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman, there are probably 15 or 20 low points that any Washington Commanders fan easily can recall during his tenure with that team. For a coach who's built a reputation for molding an innovative offensive system that has produced huge years for stars the likes of Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Ricky Williams and LaDainian Tomlinson, Turner inexplicably couldn't get more out of Randy Moss during the '05 season, Moss' first year in Oakland.

The point here is that it's a crippling mistake for San Diego to think Turner has escaped that maddening cycle. The fact is that his best role on any team is that of offensive coordinator. He's more gifted at crafting plays than rallying a team. He's better at relating to a quarterback than communication with a roster of 53 players. I realize that Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy struck a major blow for mild-mannered coaches everywhere, but that doesn't mean that everybody with a low-key personality can lead their team to a Super Bowl. Moss was so disgusted with Turner by the end of '05 that he stormed out of Turner's last meeting with the team.

Now I seriously doubt that any player in San Diego will pull that same stunt. That team is filled with plenty of class acts who understand what it takes to win. But don't for a minute think they aren't capable of tuning out a coach who isn't capable of reaching them. Remember, this team isn't guaranteed to repeat their 14-2 record of this past season. They followed a 12-4 campaign in '04 by missing the playoffs entirely in '05, so they could easily take a step backwards. And if they start slowly, I don't see Turner as the man who can steady that team and push it back in the right direction.

Simply put, Turner is a wingman by nature. Put him next to a dynamic, cutthroat personality such as his former boss in Dallas, Jimmy Johnson, and the man will shine. It's within that role that his true gifts reveal themselves, his ability to become a dependable confidant who can wrangle every last bit of potential out of a talented athlete. I saw that with the way Turner handled 49ers quarterback Alex Smith this past season in San Francisco. After one offseason of working with Turner, Smith transformed himself from a quarterback who had no clue of how to succeed in the NFL as a rookie to a confident, effective signal-caller in his second year. That's what a Norv Turner can do for a team.

What he can't do is change his track record or his nature. The bottom line here is that the Chargers don't need a head coach who can develop young players. They need a head coach who can take all their collective talent and guide it to a championship. There were certainly justifiable questions as to whether Schottenheimer would ever be that guy. But if the people in San Diego think they found an upgrade with the hiring of Turner, they need to start preparing for plenty of disappointment.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/02/19/turner/index.html
Poor Norval, doomed from the start. LOL
 

Jimz31

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Well...they are always the wrong guy until they get it right...right Belichek?
 

WoodysGirl

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Prisco's spin on Turner....
-----------

Updated: Feb/19/2007 02:25 PM
Turner good guy; good head coach? Not so much

Norv Turner is a nice man. He's also an offensive wizard, a guy who Troy Aikman loves and Alex Smith should thank.

But is he head-coaching material?

The San Diego Chargers think he is. I do not.

Turner is great with the media, which is why he sometimes gets a pass and always seems to have his name in the forefront of the coaching searches. And he does know offense. But how can the Chargers sell a coach that is 58-82-1 in his career as a head coach?

The guy he replaced, Marty Schottenheimer, was 200-126-1. Even Britney Spears could figure out which one has the better record.

The NFL recycling bin is getting full again.

Why is it that these owners and general managers are always looking to the same coaches to fill jobs? Are they afraid to take chances? And what's so safe about a guy who is 24 games below .500 in his career?

The Chargers interviewed several coordinators in the past week, one being Rex Ryan, the defensive coordinator of the Ravens. He was a perfect fit. He has employed the 3-4 defense, which the Chargers use, and he knows how to innovate on that side of the ball.

Can you imaging what Ryan would have done with Shawne Merriman?

But Ryan was passed over for Turner, a coach who didn't get it done in his two previous head-coaching stints in Washington and Oakland.

Turner's backers will say part of that is because he worked for Dan Snyder and Al Davis, two owners who can make it tough on any coach. Sure, those two can lead the league in interference penalties each year, but, especially in the case of Snyder, they do things aimed at winning -- mainly spending to do so.

In nine seasons as a head coach, Turner has had one good season, 10-6 in 1999 with the Commanders. He won a playoff game that year but lost in the divisional playoff round.

Other than that, his resume high is a 9-7 season in 1996.

Sparkling, eh?

Turner was the offensive coordinator of those Jimmy Johnson-coached Cowboys teams that won two Super Bowls, which is something he has been living off of for a while. Isn't two failed head-coaching stints enough?

In fairness to Turner, I'd love to have him as an offensive coordinator if I were a general manager or owner. But even after he did a nice job with the young 49ers offense last season, coach Mike Nolan didn't seem all that concerned about losing him when I talked to him at the Super Bowl.

Somewhere today, Dick Motta, Gene Shue, Hubie Brown, Bob Weis, Dan Reeves, Jack Pardee, Davey Johnson and the other coaches and managers in the Retread Club have to be thrilled that one of their own is getting another shot.

Why? Why? Why?

Maybe part of the reason is because Turner is such a nice guy. At least general manager A.J. Smith, who has assumed the power inside the Chargers building (just ask him) knows he won't get somebody who will be rocking the boat.

But is he getting somebody who can steer it? Is he getting a captain who can lead men?

Aren't those the more important questions? To the Chargers, obviously not.

LINK
 

CounterTrey

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One of the most telling stats about Turner is his record of something like 6-30 in close games. He had a whopping ONE 4th quarter comback in 7 years in Washington...ONE! I've seen excuses made about his QB...that he had none other than Brad Johnson. Hmmm Trent Green has had a pretty nice career...wonder why Turner let him sit on the bench for 3 years with no one better playing? The what we do works speeches will drive Charger fans to the brink of insanity. WEhen his notoriouly soft in the clutch teams blow another game he'll tell everyone what he does works thereby throwing the players under the bus with the implication that he as a HC has donme nothing wrong and the loss is entirely on the players. I could on for pages about why that is untrue but I doubt I'd be telling anyone anything new.

Truner created Club Med in Washington and he's got no one but hemself to blame. Some say...."But he had Dan Snyder picking his players and creating a zoo there"...I would merely remind them that Snyder wasn't there until the last 2 years of Turner's stint.

Some others might say..."yea but how can he lose with that much talent in SD?"
I would say...easily his teams are soft and choke in the clutch. His 1999 team broke the league scoring record, had the most prouctive back in the league as a pure runner in Stephen Davis, had 2 1000 yard receivers and still managed to underachieve when it counted. The following year in 2000 he had so much talent that there were ubiquitous national predictions of Super Bowl. (Hah! yea right!) So the guy had plenty of talent.

So 6-30 in close games. a LOSING recortd against every NFC East team including the Cards, a solid at worst GM in Casserly and a good owner in JKC. He was setup with everything he wanted including his player choices ( Shuler and Westbrook were NT choices and he went to JKC for an override on the issue as Cass wanted Dilfer and others) and his teams still were embarassingly undisciplined and tough. You guys do remember that the headbutting and helmet throwing incidents happened on his watch along with us vyying for league lead in fasle starts, oh and Michael Westbrook throwing an epic beatdown on his own teammate and team MVP.

Oh yea Norv Turner has a GREAT track record. For the life of me I will never understand how this guy keeps getting HC jobs. He must have a hypnotic interview style that makes the people interviewing him check their brains at the door.

Oh and what's up with Rivera taking a demotion, and why aren't the Ravens blocking that?
 

LittleBoyBlue

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I dont know how anyone can say that Norv wasnt good for us and he is good for Chargers and that Wade was best choice for us and Norv would have been bad for us....

Norv gets a team full of GREAT players(like he did in Dallas)... maybe that will be enough to get him over the hump.... then what? if he wins... it was ONLY his players and not him?

Wade is a good defensive mind and has won as a coach... but he aint moving any mountains....

Norv might be the PERFECT fit in San Diego.
 

Angus

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CounterTrey;1383977 said:
One of the most telling stats about Turner is his record of something like 6-30 in close games. He had a whopping ONE 4th quarter comback in 7 years in Washington...ONE! I've seen excuses made about his QB...that he had none other than Brad Johnson. Hmmm Trent Green has had a pretty nice career...wonder why Turner let him sit on the bench for 3 years with no one better playing? The what we do works speeches will drive Charger fans to the brink of insanity. WEhen his notoriouly soft in the clutch teams blow another game he'll tell everyone what he does works thereby throwing the players under the bus with the implication that he as a HC has donme nothing wrong and the loss is entirely on the players. I could on for pages about why that is untrue but I doubt I'd be telling anyone anything new.

Truner created Club Med in Washington and he's got no one but hemself to blame. Some say...."But he had Dan Snyder picking his players and creating a zoo there"...I would merely remind them that Snyder wasn't there until the last 2 years of Turner's stint.

Some others might say..."yea but how can he lose with that much talent in SD?"
I would say...easily his teams are soft and choke in the clutch. His 1999 team broke the league scoring record, had the most prouctive back in the league as a pure runner in Stephen Davis, had 2 1000 yard receivers and still managed to underachieve when it counted. The following year in 2000 he had so much talent that there were ubiquitous national predictions of Super Bowl. (Hah! yea right!) So the guy had plenty of talent.

So 6-30 in close games. a LOSING recortd against every NFC East team including the Cards, a solid at worst GM in Casserly and a good owner in JKC. He was setup with everything he wanted including his player choices ( Shuler and Westbrook were NT choices and he went to JKC for an override on the issue as Cass wanted Dilfer and others) and his teams still were embarassingly undisciplined and tough. You guys do remember that the headbutting and helmet throwing incidents happened on his watch along with us vyying for league lead in fasle starts, oh and Michael Westbrook throwing an epic beatdown on his own teammate and team MVP.

Oh yea Norv Turner has a GREAT track record. For the life of me I will never understand how this guy keeps getting HC jobs. He must have a hypnotic interview style that makes the people interviewing him check their brains at the door.

Oh and what's up with Rivera taking a demotion, and why aren't the Ravens blocking that?

Commander remorse, it sounds like. If Norv Turner is successful in San Diego, Commander fans will go bananas. They were already envious of San Diego because Schottenheimer won there after being fired by Snyder. If Turner succeeds, they may have to face the truth. That will devastate them.
 

superpunk

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Angus;1384209 said:
Commander remorse, it sounds like. If Norv Turner is successful in San Diego, Commander fans will go bananas. They were already envious of San Diego because Schottenheimer won there after being fired by Snyder. If Turner succeeds, they may have to face the truth. That will devastate them.

Marty was fired after one year, one in which he led his team on a remarkable turnaround, and finished .500.

Norv isn't quite the same situation - it would be WAY worse if he succeeds in SD. I really doubt it, though. You don't manage the division record he had against the NFC EASt and AFC West without a HUGE amount of incompetence.
 
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