Slot WR vs Passing Receiving "3rd Down" RB

CowboyRoy

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I totally agree.

If he could have stayed healthy he was an prototype 3rd down RB because in addition to his WR type receiving skills and elite speed, he was a very good pass blocker. Many of these types struggle to pass block but Dunbar was very good at it.

Nope...…….that's exactly what we don't need. What we need is another quality, all around back that can keep the run game humming when Zeke needs a rest or gets hurt.
 

Cowpolk

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If we’re gonna pay Zeke, wed damn sure better not take him off the field, especially on important third downs.
Zeke would be a great slot receiver he has great hands and the speed to do it just move him around
 

Hawkeye0202

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As much as I love Dak part of that is his fault and part SL. He’s gone now so hopefully it changes

I’m still going through this thread but I thought part of the reason zeke was taken at 4 is because he’s a 3 down back who can catch and block

I agree we could use an upgrade on rod smith but this business about needing a scat back I’m not convinced

We need Dak to improve and we need better play calling and consistent line play. If we stay healthy this year we will win division if we improve in areas mentioned as well as Defense we may win a couple games

No question about Zeke being a 3-down back and a damn good one. My point was if we're planning to give him a long-term deal, he can't have over 400+ touches ( similar to DeMarco Murray's final year). Otherwise, you risk wearing him down before his potential $14-15M long-term deal ends. I'm guessing the FO is on the same page coz this first they seem determined to find good quality back-up and not just a body.

BTW..agree 100%, the division is our for the taking.
 

SSoup

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Putting a backup RB on the field in Elliott's place seems unlikely to make us situationally better at running or at passing. Putting a backup RB on the field in place of a WR seems unlikely to make us better equipped to pass either.

Moreover, I'm not nuts about bending over backwards to find a passing game specialist RB. I'd much rather have good all-around RBs in the stable who, if Elliott goes down, aren't just gadget players who catch passes, but will actually be a threat to run the football like a starting RB.

Maybe Kellen Moore will be better at this, but we've had a bad habit lately of kidding ourselves that specialty players are some amazing secret weapon. When we send a gadget player onto the field to perform their novelty act, opposing defenses tend to see it coming from a mile away and have zero trouble handling it whatsoever.
 

1LoyalCowboyFan

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I think a good way to enhance the slot WR depth is by getting a pass receiving RB.

The Duke Johnson type RB would be good to have on the roster. He could used as a slot WR on some snaps depending on matchups and his ability as a receiver out of the backfield could be used to do some of the things a slot WR does.

Beasley was great in his niche role of owning the short area to move the chains; however, his limitations were often a limitation on the offense. He didn't have the deep speed of some smallish WRs to back defenders off and his quickness was negated one longer routes where defenders have more time to react with the ball in the air and can use their size to reach around/over him.

Using a WR with outside WR ability in the slot allows for more creativity on offense; however, the bigger WRs (Cooper is an exception) often don't have the quickness of Beasley. That's where a quick pass receiving RB can be an asset in the slot or from the backfield but running routes in that same short area where Beasley excelled.

I have not looked at these types of RBs in the draft.

Although I'm a big fan of RB Bryce Love, he was not used much as a receiver. I don't know if that was because he was limited or just because they didn't need that from him.

Tavon Austin can be used as a slot WR with elite speed and quickness but he's not an ideal option to use from the backfield because he can't pass block like some of the short but stout RBs. Lance Dunbar was about the same height but was a very good pass blocker. Dunbar probably outweighed Austin by 25 pounds. Obviously injury issues limited Dunbar just like they've limited Austin in his career.


Summary: In the draft I would focus more on a pass receiving RB than a slot WR.

James Williams WSU
 

Idgit

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Johnson would be a great alternative to Zeke if he’s available. We still need to be looking at another talented WR early. We need all the weapons we can get, and we need another red zone threat.
 

xwalker

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James Williams WSU

Yes, he had a lot of receptions for a RB.

Fearless with great balance.

Elusive despite lacking great speed.

Balance is something that does not get discussed enough. Some otherwise great athletes don't have it while some athletes with average measurables have great balance (Emmitt, Boobie Williams).
 

xwalker

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Putting a backup RB on the field in Elliott's place seems unlikely to make us situationally better at running or at passing. Putting a backup RB on the field in place of a WR seems unlikely to make us better equipped to pass either.

Moreover, I'm not nuts about bending over backwards to find a passing game specialist RB. I'd much rather have good all-around RBs in the stable who, if Elliott goes down, aren't just gadget players who catch passes, but will actually be a threat to run the football like a starting RB.

Maybe Kellen Moore will be better at this, but we've had a bad habit lately of kidding ourselves that specialty players are some amazing secret weapon. When we send a gadget player onto the field to perform their novelty act, opposing defenses tend to see it coming from a mile away and have zero trouble handling it whatsoever.

Good all around RBs tend to go earlier in the draft and likely earlier than the Cowboys will pick a RB.

The type of RB that I described tends to go in mid/late.
 

HungryLion

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Putting a backup RB on the field in Elliott's place seems unlikely to make us situationally better at running or at passing. Putting a backup RB on the field in place of a WR seems unlikely to make us better equipped to pass either.

Moreover, I'm not nuts about bending over backwards to find a passing game specialist RB. I'd much rather have good all-around RBs in the stable who, if Elliott goes down, aren't just gadget players who catch passes, but will actually be a threat to run the football like a starting RB.

Maybe Kellen Moore will be better at this, but we've had a bad habit lately of kidding ourselves that specialty players are some amazing secret weapon. When we send a gadget player onto the field to perform their novelty act, opposing defenses tend to see it coming from a mile away and have zero trouble handling it whatsoever.


I hear you. But to be honest my preference would be for them to carry 3 RB’s on the roster.

One back up should be the well rounded RB that can spell Zeke in any situation and also carry the load if god forbid Zeke gets hurt.

The 3rd running back on the roster could be the 3rd down back type. Small, shiftiest, with speed/quickness who can make things happen in the open field.
 

Toruk_Makto

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The King of bad ideas is back with more.

Hey, you know what would make us better?Taking Zeke Elliott off the field.

Less Zeke is what will get us over the hump.
The dirty little secret is that Zeke wasn't even that effective last year. Volume masked his bad efficiency.
 

Typhus

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49ers signed Tevin Coleman on a two year 8.5 mil deal.
Would have been worth that to keep Zeke around a bit longer.
 

starfan1

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No question about Zeke being a 3-down back and a damn good one. My point was if we're planning to give him a long-term deal, he can't have over 400+ touches ( similar to DeMarco Murray's final year). Otherwise, you risk wearing him down before his potential $14-15M long-term deal ends. I'm guessing the FO is on the same page coz this first they seem determined to find good quality back-up and not just a body.

BTW..agree 100%, the division is our for the taking.
True dat and I have mixed feelings on the rb position on one hand I get that zeke is the motor for this team and based on recent contracts and words from Steven he’s going to get paid handsomely so save him a bit for the back end

On the other hand I can see the rationale of using him and moving on much like Murray get what you can while you can.

I would lean towards option 1
 

Hawkeye0202

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True dat and I have mixed feelings on the rb position on one hand I get that zeke is the motor for this team and based on recent contracts and words from Steven he’s going to get paid handsomely so save him a bit for the back end

On the other hand I can see the rationale of using him and moving on much like Murray get what you can while you can.

I would lean towards option 1

I think the motivation to give Zeke a long-term deal vs Murray is a bit different for a few reasons. We have a 4th overall pick invested in Zeke vs Murray was 2nd rounder. Also, Zeke age and he doesn't have Murray's injury history.

Not sure if you remember, but they made no secret about the concerns they had giving Murray a long-term even during his record-breaking 2014 season. Stephen showing the media a chart/stats that RB's careers start declining after 27. Jerry saying he believed Joe Randall or almost any back could get 1500 yards behind our OL. Even Romo, Garrett and Witten tried to convince Stephen to get Murray signed. Of course after letting him walk we tried to bring him back.

My point here, I think the Murray issue taught Stephen a lesson about keeping a franchise type RB.
 

Whirlwin

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Quick, who was Emmitts backup in the 90s? And would Emmitt routinely come off the field on 3rd down?
I could tell you. Tony Dorset and Robert Newhouse. No and he didn't take himself out of the game that often. Jimmie Johnson wouldn't stand for it at least stay in there and be a decoy. I don't recall who Emmett's backup was. I know the guy had a great day in the rain and everybody want him to start. And Jimmy said woah down slow down
 

Whirlwin

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Of course Zeke won’t play 100% of the snaps.

But who would you rather have in a critical 3rd-down situation; the best RB in the league who’s also a very good receiver, OR a designated “3rd Down” RB, whose very presence on the field signals to the opposing D that we’re absolutely gonna pass the ball?
First of all I don't think Elliot it's the best running back in the league. I think the Giants have the guy Barkley.
 

Whirlwin

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Of course Zeke won’t play 100% of the snaps.

But who would you rather have in a critical 3rd-down situation; the best RB in the league who’s also a very good receiver, OR a designated “3rd Down” RB, whose very presence on the field signals to the opposing D that we’re absolutely gonna pass the ball?
Smash Mouth football they know it's coming I hope this new offensive brings some balance.
 

1LoyalCowboyFan

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Yes, he had a lot of receptions for a RB.

Fearless with great balance.

Elusive despite lacking great speed.

Balance is something that does not get discussed enough. Some otherwise great athletes don't have it while some athletes with average measurables have great balance (Emmitt, Boobie Williams).

I used to think he’d make it to the 7th. I don’t anymore. I don’t think I’d be upset in the 5th. He seems like the running back NE would get and be super productive.
 

Johnny23

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It's not an either or thing. You get a recieving back and a slot receiver. You put the most talent on the field.
 
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