So far Spears and Carpenter and Henry

[LaTunaNostra]

That's never stopped us before. Panic!

ain't it great?

 

[firehawk350]

This is not necessarily true. He has been beat some in drills but so has everybody. In 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 drills, the defender has a big advantage because they can go wide and use their speed. When Bigg lines up at RG with Gurode on one side and Columbo on the other, it going to be hard for anyone to get past him. I'm not saying he will never get beat but 1 on 1 drills are not the same as gametime. I haven't heard a single report of him being bullrushed and thats what it will take for a DT to beat him in a pass rushing situation. I'm not worried at all. If he starts to get beat on a regular basis in pre-season games, then I'll get worried.

That's not true either. Otherwise, why would being in the one gap matter for the NT?

DTs just don't make many sacks because A) they are right in the face of the QB and the QB will scramble most likely when a DT gets in their face. DTs aren't known for running down a QB when he does decide to run. B) The best DT most often gets double teamed by the center and guard. C) A lot of plays require DTs to occupy blockers to allow blitzing LB/DB(s) to get to the QB, as they are more likely to seal the deal then the DT.

a DT, by the sound of it, that is relatively quick and tries to shoot a gap (namely the one between the tackle [the tackle has enough on his mind with the DE speed rushing the edge] and Davis) sounds like Davis' achilles heel so far. But it's only 7 or so practices into it.

I do think I remember him getting beat by a couple of players on 9-on-9s or 11-on-11s. But I'm not sure.

 

[AsthmaField]

This is not necessarily true. He has been beat some in drills but so has everybody. In 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 drills, the defender has a big advantage because they can go wide and use their speed. When Bigg lines up at RG with Gurode on one side and Columbo on the other, it going to be hard for anyone to get past him.

That's pretty much correct... and it's exactly why we don't want him playing against the Dwight Freenys of the NFL, but rather playing inside at guard. His movement skills are why he's always been more effective inside and why everyone says he's much better at G.

During a game, he'll have the center and tackle, each on one side and that will help stifle any attempts to run around his pass blocking. Much more difficult to get away from his size when he's a guard in a real game.

I can promise you this much... NFC East defenses are not going to be happy at all to see Mr. Bigg this season... particularly on running plays, but I think even on passing downs, too.

 

[AsthmaField]

That's not true either. Otherwise, why would being in the one gap matter for the NT?

Because he doesn't have to worry about the run coming into a gap that he's not responsible for? Am I reading this question incorrectly?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm not sure why people think Spears is some sorta "pass-rush God". I mean he wasn't in college and I doubt he'll ever be one in the NFL. If the guy picked up 4 sacks a year I would be absolutely thrilled. I think Spears could be just a decent all-around DE.

Hatcher and Ratliff are much better pass-rushers than Spears.

I personally haven't gotten the impression that Spears has had a bad camp.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

In a similar vein to my last post it sounds like Davis has been beaten a couple times on pass-rush drills but it doesn't sound like he's been whipped on every attempt.

Plus these drills (if I'm not mistaken) really allow the defensive ends to go wide-- being a guard I don't think Davis will be facing that an awful lot. He'll be facing DT and NT who aren't that quick to begin with. I'm not too concerned.

 

[AsthmaField]

I'm not sure why people think Spears is some sorta "pass-rush God". I mean he wasn't in college and I doubt he'll ever be one in the NFL. If the guy picked up 4 sacks a year I would be absolutely thrilled. I think Spears could be just a decent all-around DE.

Hatcher and Ratliff are much better pass-rushers than Spears.

I personally haven't gotten the impression that Spears has had a bad camp.

Didn't Spears get 8 sacks one year in college? I might be thinking of someone else.

If he did get eight while playing strongside DE for the Tigers in an 11 or 12 game season, that really isn't too bad for someone his size.

I might be remembering it wrong though.

 

[dallasfan]

This is not necessarily true. He has been beat some in drills but so has everybody. In 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 drills, the defender has a big advantage because they can go wide and use their speed. When Bigg lines up at RG with Gurode on one side and Columbo on the other, it going to be hard for anyone to get past him. I'm not saying he will never get beat but 1 on 1 drills are not the same as gametime. I haven't heard a single report of him being bullrushed and thats what it will take for a DT to beat him in a pass rushing situation. I'm not worried at all. If he starts to get beat on a regular basis in pre-season games, then I'll get worried.

Exactly, in 1 on 1 drills, you're basically a tackle blocking an end. When he gets abused in the 11 on 11 drills, I'll get worried.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Didn't Spears get 8 sacks one year in college? I might be thinking of someone else.

If he did get eight while playing strongside DE for the Tigers in an 11 or 12 game season, that really isn't too bad for someone his size.

I might be remembering it wrong though.

I think you're right... and I had taken that into consideration but I'm not big into college sacks, especially on a dominating defense (like LSU had) unless they are freakishly high like what Suggs put up a few years ago or you know the guy has a terrific first step. Spears doesn't have that quick first step that will allow him to go wide on NFL OT's too often.

If he ended up being a "poor man's" Richard Seymour I'd be pleased.

 

[fortdick]

Where are the Johnson > Romo threads? Baker > Romo!

It can't be training camp without some kind of QB debate.

 

[dallasfan]

Didn't Spears get 8 sacks one year in college? I might be thinking of someone else.

If he did get eight while playing strongside DE for the Tigers in an 11 or 12 game season, that really isn't too bad for someone his size.

I might be remembering it wrong though.

One sack as a freshman
three sacks as a sophomore
six sacks as a junior
nine sacks as a senior

I wouldn't call him a pass rushing God, but he should be much better, scheme aside than he is. With that being said, how many sacks is reasonable to expect from a 3-4 end?

After looking through a couple guys, 4 seems to be a good number, and 8 is exceptional. (The Ravens ran a hybrid 3-4, 46 defense, so I didn't consider Trevor Pryce a 3-4 end).

 

[Big Dakota]

We are less than a week into TC. What a LOAD of GARBAGE. I'd sure hate to be in a foxhole with some of you.

 

[ndanger]

If only, if ONLY, teams would run a ONE DAY training camp.

Then we could get all our ducks in a row, and just pick off the 'weak links'.

But it sure is amusing, isn't it?

In a game notorious for being a six-month long distance run, dependent on nothing more than STAMINA, we want to shoot them at the gate.

Stop makin' sense dangit !

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Here are some sack numbers that I would like to see... and I think they are pretty realistic:

Spears 4
Ferguson 1
Canty 3
Ratliff 3
Hatcher 4
Bowen 1
Ware 13
James 1
Akin 2
Ellis 4
Spencer 4
Roy 2
Newman 1
Henry 1
Hamlin 1
Burnett 1
Carpenter 1
Glymph 1

That's 48 sacks right there.

I think that's a good number. Heck, I'd take 70 but 48 would convert to some pretty good pressure on opposing QB's.

 

[28 Joker]

Spears is very good against the run and will be even better under Phillips. When Ware and Spencer become feared, Spears or Hatcher will be able to clean up the quarterbacks.

When it becomes Ware and Spencer, there is no reason Spears can't match Castillo's production as a pass rusher. Castillo had 7 or 8 last year. That would be a good number for Spears to shoot at. Merriman and Phillips and the one gap helped Castillo get those sacks. Defenses will focus on the two outside linebackers when they are both major threats. This allows the DEs to sneak up on quarterbacks and make some plays. Spears, Canty, Hatcher, and Ratliff should all thrive in this defense. Give them some time to make it go.

 

[AsthmaField]

I think you're right... and I had taken that into consideration but I'm not big into college sacks, especially on a dominating defense (like LSU had) unless they are freakishly high like what Suggs put up a few years ago or you know the guy has a terrific first step. Spears doesn't have that quick first step that will allow him to go wide on NFL OT's too often.

If he ended up being a "poor man's" Richard Seymour I'd be pleased.

Yeah... I know college sacks don't always translate to this level... sometimes even freakishly high ones like Suggs.

Spears may not have a real dangerous first step, but he really can move around for a guy his size. That's what I remember him most for in college is that he moved around like a guy 250lbs. instead of 300lbs. I saw a decent amount of him too, down here in SEC country. His first step isn't too bad either. (No I'm not an LSU fan)

I might be wrong, and if I am, I'll admit it in writing if anyone wishes... but I do think that scheme and how guys are used plays a really big role in the success of someone coming out of college. I honestly do feel that if we had drafted Merriman and SD would have gotten Ware - that Ware would have had the more sacks of the two for their first two years. I think if we had drafted Castillo and SD had drafted Spears, that Spears might have more sacks. I'm less sure of Spears than I am Ware though. How would Pittsburgh have used Roy Williams? Like the hair wonder? How would have Adalius Thomas been used by Zimmer? Would he even be in the NFL if Zim would have had a shot at him? I kid (sort of).

It does matter. I say a lot. Maybe it is only a little... who Knows?

Honestly, I suppose we'll see this season, to a large degree, if I'm right or wrong about that. I do realize that I could be wrong, but I think we'll see much more pressure from Spears, Canty, Ratliff and Hatcher, than we did the last two years. I do hope I'm correct on Spears, because if I'm not, then we used a first round pick on nothing but a solid run stuffer... which isn't all bad, but not what you want for the 20th pick overall. I think his movement and (pretty) good first step will be much better utilized by Phillips 1 gap scheme than they were in Parcells 2 gap. He might be only a poor man's Seymore... and if that's the case, I'm fine with it.

All that said - there's no way to tell from the first 4 days of training camp who's going to be doing what this year. It is way too early and the drills are sometimes not even close to normal game conditions. When we hear that one player is dong good or bad, you just can't put much stock into that at this point. The preseason games should tell us a lot.

 

[AsthmaField]

I wouldn't call him a pass rushing God, but he should be much better, scheme aside than he is. With that being said, how many sacks is reasonable to expect from a 3-4 end?

After looking through a couple guys, 4 seems to be a good number, and 8 is exceptional. (The Ravens ran a hybrid 3-4, 46 defense, so I didn't consider Trevor Pryce a 3-4 end).

I'd say what Castillo did last year would be around as many as you'd realistically expect a 3-4 DE to get. What Pryce did last year, he mainly did playing DT in their 4 man front (read: nickel). Spears will be doing that some this year, and I'd love to see him approach what Pryce did in Balt... however, that is unrealistic for nearly anyone playing that spot, IMO.

I'd set 4 for Spears at the very bottom of what to expect and around double that as a best case scenario.

 

[Sarge]

We are less than a week into TC. What a LOAD of GARBAGE. I'd sure hate to be in a foxhole with some of you.

Ooooooo-k then............

 

[BlueStar22]

I don't care how they do against our own guys. I mean really, if they're abusing our guys, then we'd be complaining about how the offensive guys they're up against suck. I'll only care once exhibition play begins. if they're carrying a bag, that's when it'll be a big cause for concern. Henry's up against TO, Glenn, Crayton. I think our 3 WRs rank among the best in the league. We all have high hopes for Hurd.

 

[silverbear]

It's amazing that Spears has looked horrible at pass-rush and Davis has looked awful in pass protection, despite lining up against each other in 11-on-11s.

LOL... nicely said...

I'll merely add that it's entirely possible to have a bad play or two in the course of a practice, and still have had a good practice overall...

We've read that TO has had some drops thus far in camp, but we've also read that he's been one of the stars of camp...