Video: Some All 22 from SF

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by Haimerej, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. CowboysFaninHouston

    CowboysFaninHouston CowboysFaninDC

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    multiple things stand out.

    our OL blocking was bad. on runs and passes.
    Why wasn't pollard used more? he was fairly effective.
    Dak played scared and jittery. you could see it in his demanor during the game, in his eyes.
    Our offense was very predictable. Moore wasn't fooling anybody.
    the play designs were not good and didn't put the offensive players in a position to succeed.

    perhaps the players lost confidence in the scheme. perhaps players lost confidence in moore. the whole team played scared and played not to lose. that's the easiest way to lose.
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  2. dfense

    dfense Well-Known Member

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    You can see these guys wide open on the replay from the sky cam behind Prescott during the game. I was sick to my stomach watching him predetermine where he was going with the ball. He never even turns to look at anyone else. He's check down Charlie for a couple games in a row then got all fat and happy against the JV Philly team going down field with the ball. He probably had that same mentality for this game.

    Another thing is San Fran has a base defense 3 linebackers in on early downs. I can't remember the last time the Cowboys used a 3 linebacker defense. That's why teams run wide on them The containment just sucks.
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  3. MarionBarberThe4th

    MarionBarberThe4th Well-Known Member

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    Romo also threw guys open. Nice catchable passes that lead the receiver to yac .

    wven our check down safety valve plays suck Bc dak just rifles it and our guys have to adjust and gather in the ball before they can turn up field and run.

    how many times does dak make that pass wherein the running back is better off just letting the ball drop rather than catch it and get whacked by a defender for a 7 yard loss
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  4. ondaedg

    ondaedg Well-Known Member

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    I think Dak is a good QB. But he’s a great qb when he is decisive and he works through his progressions quicker ala the TB game. It is clear to me that his late season issues were more mental than anything. He started thinking too much rather than trusting his own ability. He doesn’t trust his own accuracy which makes zero sense when he is arguably the best tight window passer in the league.
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  5. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    Yep.. I’ve said it multiple times through the season, just key in on Dak from the snap and you’ll see him staring down the WR he’s going to from the outset, over and over and over again. He’s a complete system QB that needs Moore to get WRs open in the early progressions. Everything is basically predetermined with Dak.

    If he actually ‘goes through his progressions”, he rushed through them like Moore was saying before the first Football Team game. In actuality, it’s also predetermine by him mentally as well, to go to his Checkdown.

    The only time he’s not doing this as a norm is when they are down in garbage time or when he breaks pocket and it’s about that ‘streetball instinct”, where you are outside of a system and just throw to whomever you see in your view who has a shot.
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  6. Sydla

    Sydla Well-Known Member

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    It's an issue for sure, especially in the 2nd half of the season. Romo was biting his tongue in the telecast but from the few comments he made, it was clear Dak just wasn't seeing things.
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  7. WillieBeamen

    WillieBeamen BoysfanfromNY

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    Haimerej, khiladi and pjtoadie like this.
  8. Daillest88

    Daillest88 Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone seen the randy Gregory tape on this game? Boy he was TACKLING the offense lineman. Wth
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  9. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    An interesting stat by PFF, a wrong interpretation.

    1. This quote clearly demonstrates that this idea Dak isn’t getting good pass-blocking relative to what other QBs face is asinine. Dak was ranked 24th in average depth of target when he had at least 3 seconds to throw. The data in fact tells us what we already know, which is Dak defaults to his check-down against primarily zone, which ends up inflating his passing grade in such situations, thus the “eight” ranking. Dak doesn’t challenge the defensive backfield.

    So you have stats telling us two clear things:

    a. WRs being open for pass catcheable throws, Dallas is a top 5 offense and the only one that is now home for the playoffs.

    b. Dak, when he has time to throw, most likely a lot of those situations where defenses just rush 4. is at a whopping 24 in depth of target, meaning he doesn’t even bother to challenge the defensive backfield. He does boast an 8th ranking as far as pass rating is concerned, showing him constantly defaulting to his checkdown route. This is seen in earlier years as well, where his numbers jump in man with Amari, but he actually gets worse or remains mediocre against zones.

    Dak is essentially a glorified checkdown Charlie, who can make the early throws, obfuscating how mediocre of a QB, particularly pocket padder, he really is. Putting him in the same sentence as Romo is complete trash.

    2. This GIF example doesn’t demonstrate an ability to get through progressions, especially when all your reads are on the right side and one of them is a crossing route. Dak doesn’t even bother to look at receiver on his left i, meaning it’s hardly a good example of a QB demonstrating an ability to get through progressions. The deep safety doesn’t even bother looking, let alone, moving towards that side being as a result of a situation of even being pulled by a QB, meaning this idea Dak was even looking that way is a wild stretch.

    The defense is showing single safety but a defender drops, meaning it’s a disguised cover shell 2 look. It’s that disguised safety that ends up taking the WR Running from the slot towards the sideline. All the WRs are essentially on the one side of the field. Dak goes immediately to his checkdown, because the slot WR he is keying towards is in traffic.

    All this demonstrates is SF defense had the right call for that formation.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
  10. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    Dallas predictability, including play calling or a defenses approach to a game, is often dictated by the predictability of a QB. It’s called tendencies…

    Just because the defense has a play covered doesn’t mean it’s Moore. Moore just may have exhausted his options at that point, because the QB doesn’t allow him to open things up.

    This season was 2019 all over again. We started off 3-0 and our pass blocking was the best in the business and Zeke and Pollard were dominating. Just like this year. Teams caught on to the tendencies and Dak was exposed, just like this year. There is only so much an OC can do, because teams start watching the tape throughout a season. Ultimately the QB has to step up.

    Even guys like Herbert and Burrow in year 2 to end the season, were growing and getting better and better. You could just see how Herbert was carrying the team on his back, the brighter the lights, and shaking your head in awe as a football fan. And we had “Mr Roboto” Dak, deer in the headlights, predetermined stares, in year 6.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  11. CalPolyTechnique

    CalPolyTechnique Well-Known Member

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    This team’s approach on offense changed last year. We went away from a more balanced attack featuring the run to putting the entire offense on Dak’s throwing arm.

    I don’t know what happened to Dak after that calf injury but he looked changed. I’ve never seen him miss so him locked on a single receiver and missing others running open.

    Nobody can rightfully say “Dak sux” because he doesn’t. But anyone thinking he’s even close to being top tier on the level of Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, et cetera should be slapped. He doesn’t have the arm talent, consistent performance, nor the command of the game the way those named do. I really think he’s on the Kirk Cousins tier of QBs.

    That said, I think we can win with him but he needs to be a complimentary player working off the run game.

    It’s also mind boggling to me that Moore failed to get Pollard involved and continued to force feed an injured RB (Zeke) as the lead dog in our run game.

    I also think our run scheme has grown stale. I think teams have picked up on our tendencies because far too often there is a defender completely free meeting our RBs in the backfield.
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  12. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    If the calf was supposedly the problem, what happened in 2019 after the 3-0 start with the Saints, GB, Jets, Bears, NE, Bills and Eagles with Dak? Was it the same calf?

    I have no problems saying it. Dak does suck relative to what surrounds him at that level. You give him the early 2018 WRs, he’s QUincy Carter in many respects. You give him 2017 Zeke suspension, meaning a slight disruption in the system he is running, he can’t even put up double digit scoring against winning teams.
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  13. khiladi

    khiladi Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the difference between elite and good QBs with average ones. Welcome to a system QB. Even Heineke posted the highest QBR against the blitz during the 4 game winning streak, because in such situations it means the QB is more decisive. Dak was the highest rated QB against the blitz in his worst years, including 2017. Elite QBs anticipate and get through progressions and make throws others can’t in the league, despite possessing skills.

    Cooper Rush in is first start in 4 years basically showed he could make the throws in this offense. He’s a backup QB.

    Every QB in the NFL can toss a ball relative to your average college player on the street. The worst team in the NFL would completely annihilate the best college team in the country. But the bad QBs in the NFL relative to the elite and good ones come down often times to their processing, meaning ‘mental’.

    Dak is exhibiting the same mental aspects of the game, he’s exhibited throughout his career. Guys like Burrow are getting sacked over 50 times a season and still not getting rattled. Herbert gets pressured and still goes through his progressions rapidly and then firs ridiculous dimes.

    Dak was profiled to be a backup NFL QB basically, which isn’t a knock on him. 99% of the population of the US can’t do that job. He still sucks relative to the good and elite, taking into account personnel.
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  14. CyberB0b

    CyberB0b Village Idiot

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    Shotgun isn't the problem, Zeke is. He just sucks at running. He's a nice blocker, though.
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  15. morat1959

    morat1959 Well-Known Member

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    You can’t teach or coach dumb=Dak.
  16. Haimerej

    Haimerej Well-Known Member

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    Watch some of those runs on the video. Pretty difficult to blame Zeke when the o line looks so confused at times.
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  17. Haimerej

    Haimerej Well-Known Member

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    So that's a commonly held take based on this stat from 2018.

    From the article-

    "Next Gen Stats defines a "tight-window throw" as a throw where the intended receiver had less than a yard of separation from the defender."

    When it was first circulated my immediate take was a poorly timed throw can create a tight window, so Dak being considered, "the best," didn’t mean much. At the time, there wasn't a lot of All 22 to watch, but I would often reference a receiver beating his defender and then slowing down to adjust for an underthrown ball.

    But here's another example-

    This thread is the Kurt Warner breakdown video. Watch the play at 23:30. You'll see him throw to CD on a comeback. Notice how Warner talks about how late it is, when it should be out, "ball in hand," etc. His being late allowed the corner to close the separation CD got at the top of the route. He created a tighter window because he was late to throw, even though his eyes were there the whole time.
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  18. ondaedg

    ondaedg Well-Known Member

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    A qb being late and accuracy are two different things. But his hesitancy to make throws with DBs in the area is one of the issues I had with him. He just needs to trust his arm and fling it.
    Gaede likes this.
  19. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    Great post. Before the season, I thought Dak had a chance to push himself into top 5 category. He's grown tremendously in his career and is clearly capable of doing everything a top QB does.

    But we're seeing limits now, unfortunately. Like you said, he doesn't have a command over the game and isn't capable of getting wins, 'one on one'--when things aren't working and you need to make it work, like Rodgers or Mahomes or any of the top guys. He's becoming a system guy like Cousins, who will get more success only when paired with the right system and coaching. The kind that makes an above average player even better, like the Niners do for their QBs.

    Unfortunately, we don't have those things either.
  20. Haimerej

    Haimerej Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they are two different things. But again, that stat isn't determining the accuracy of a throw. It's merely the completion % when a DB is within 1 yard of the receiver. So if your receiver gets separation at their break but the QB doesn't anticipate and allows the defender to close the distance before getting the ball out, that's counted as a, "tight window." In reality, it's just a late throw that allowed a defender to recover.
    Vtwin likes this.

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