Some next year stuffs

[Hostile]

I don't consider it gutting either but didn't they add starting caliber players in LaDainian Tomlinson, Jason Taylor, Antonio Cromartie, Santonio Holmes, and Brodney Pool? (Cromartie and Pool start)

While we added zilch in Free Agency and less than zilch (Alex Barron) in trades.

Both the Cowboys and Jets were the "talk" this off-season as Superbowl contenders but only the Jets did something about it. End results Jets tied for the best record in football, and us, not so much.

Complacency and a lack of motivation/leadership ruined us.

Question for you. Which of those players above were you willing to pay the price it took to get them and how would that change the Draft strategy?

I'll be real honest with you, I'll take Dez Bryant over any 3 of those players for the long term.

Is it against a rule somewhere to actually look at the roster and see what is needed and go after that?

Going into this season I wanted interior OL and S help and I did not like any of the FA options. Yes, that includes Pool. LT has been a pleasant surprise for the Jets. The rest of those players are not really guys I would want. We didn't need LT.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Question for you. Which of those players above were you willing to pay the price it took to get them and how would that change the Draft strategy?

I'll be real honest with you, I'll take Dez Bryant over any 3 of those players for the long term.

Is it against a rule somewhere to actually look at the roster and see what is needed and go after that?

Going into this season I wanted interior OL and S help and I did not like any of the FA options. Yes, that includes Pool. LT has been a pleasant surprise for the Jets. The rest of those players are not really guys I would want. We didn't need LT.

I agree with you on those particular players for us but trying beats not trying almost every time. Alan Ball was a gigantic question mark. The offensive line was a disaster in the Minnesota game. Yet we did nothing.

By the way signing any of those players (or any other Unrestricted Free Agents) would have had zero impact on whether or not we drafted Dez Bryant.

I know there are some here who will blindly defend Jerry til their last breath but he (the GM) really tanked it this last off-season. If he felt Alan Ball was good enough or trusted certain coaches that Ball was adequate then there needs to be some accountability for that.

 

[Hostile]

I agree with you on those particular players for us but trying beats not trying almost every time. Alan Ball was a gigantic question mark. The offensive line was a disaster in the Minnesota game. Yet we did nothing.

By the way signing any of those players (or any other Unrestricted Free Agents) would have had zero impact on whether or not we drafted Dez Bryant.

I know there are some here who will blindly defend Jerry til their last breath but he (the GM) really tanked it this last off-season. If he felt Alan Ball was good enough or trusted certain coaches that Ball was adequate then there needs to be some accountability for that.

Here's a little 411 for you Chris. No charge for the info. The FA crop was very pathetic due to the expiration of the CBA which pushed years of service for FA from 4 to 6 years.

Am I telling you that had something to do with the Cowboys off season strategy as well as their need to lock up some of their own players long term while it was an uncapped year?

Yes.

Anyone who thinks we mismanaged the team this off season is off their rocker. There was almost no one in FA worth a fiddler's damn, and the few who were there cost a freaking fortune. We drafted amazingly well for only having 6 picks.

The off season had very little to do with the collapse of 2010.

Oh, and the next time you accuse me of blindly defending Jerry Jones I want you to put some money on it. Put up or shut up. I am tired of the tactic.

 

[Beast_from_East]

The Jets made changes at backups. There is very little change to their starters.

No, I don't consider that gutting the team.

You dont consider changing 40% of your roster gutting? Backups dont count?


How bout this, we make Gurode, Bigg, Columbo, Ball, and Sensy all backups and then release their butts since they suck. That way we upgrade the roster and we are not "gutting" since backups dont count?

 

[UnoDallas]

you know guys

I been looking at FA Olinemen

RT/RG - Marshal Yanda, BAL 6-3 #315

Yanda is stout and solid all the way around and would be a great addition at RT, also has versatility to play either G spot.

Leroy Harris, TEN OG 6-3 #315

Harvey Dahl, Atl OG 6-5 #315

Davin Joseph, TB OG 6-3 # 315

Ryan Kalil Car OG 6-2 #295

Carl Nicks NO 6-5 #345

Logan Mankins NE 6 -4 #310

at least we have some choices just depends on who the line coach is
but we need one of these guys

or signing along the O line

 

[KingintheNorth]

Here's a little 411 for you Chris. No charge for the info. The FA crop was very pathetic due to the expiration of the CBA which pushed years of service for FA from 4 to 6 years.

Am I telling you that had something to do with the Cowboys off season strategy as well as their need to lock up some of their own players long term while it was an uncapped year?

Yes.

Anyone who thinks we mismanaged the team this off season is off their rocker. There was almost no one in FA worth a fiddler's damn, and the few who were there cost a freaking fortune. We drafted amazingly well for only having 6 picks.

The off season had very little to do with the collapse of 2010.

Oh, and the next time you accuse me of blindly defending Jerry Jones I want you to put some money on it. Put up or shut up. I am tired of the tactic.

How do I put money on your feelings towards Jerry Jones? Does a psychiatrist determine the winner?

You are right about the free agency class, it was weak. You are also right that we had a pretty good draft class. I just don't agree with your take that we couldn't or shouldn't have tried to improved. Antrel Rolle or OJ Atogwe would have made a major difference on our defense. Yes, they would have cost a lot of money but hey, we were going to go to the Superbowl. It was an obvious weakness to everyone except Jerry, Wade, and Campo (plus some homers). We seriously misjudged our overall talent, especially the belief that Ball is a capable starter.

As it is, a year later, we still need to go out and sign, trade for, or draft a starting caliber Free Safety.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I just don't agree with your take that we couldn't or shouldn't have tried to improved. Antrel Rolle or OJ Atogwe would have made a major difference on our defense. Yes, they would have cost a lot of money but hey, we were going to go to the Superbowl. It was an obvious weakness to everyone except Jerry, Wade, and Campo (plus some homers). We seriously misjudged our overall talent, especially the belief that Ball is a capable starter.

As it is, a year later, we still need to go out and sign, trade for, or draft a starting caliber Free Safety.

And how would you feel if we signed Rolle or Atogwe and next year struggled to get under the cap. Surely you can see now that while they may have mad a difference, adding them wouldn't be enough to have us in the playoff hunt.

 

[KingintheNorth]

And how would you feel if we signed Rolle or Atogwe and next year struggled to get under the cap. Surely you can see now that while they may have mad a difference, adding them wouldn't be enough to have us in the playoff hunt.

I get that but one thing I don't doubt about Jerry is that he and Stephen will figure out the salary cap issues. Wheher it's cutting a Marion Barber or re-working players contracts, they will get it done.

I honestly feel Rolle or Atogwe would have made a difference in the Commanders and Bears games and then maybe, the collapse doesn't happen. I'm not trying to put all of the blame on Ball for those losses but Rolle or Atogwe would have possibly made plays on balls that Ball didn't. Both of those games, we were 1 or 2 plays away from winning.

If nothing else, it would be one less glaring hole going into this next off-season.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I get that but one thing I don't doubt about Jerry is that he and Stephen will figure out the salary cap issues. Wheher it's cutting a Marion Barber or re-working players contracts, they will get it done.

I honestly feel Rolle or Atogwe would have made a difference in the Commanders and Bears games and then maybe, the collapse doesn't happen. I'm not trying to put all of the blame on Ball for those losses but Rolle or Atogwe would have possibly made plays on balls that Ball didn't. Both of those games, we were 1 or 2 plays away from winning.

If nothing else, it would be one less glaring hole going into this next off-season.

Ed Reed wouldn't have made a difference in the Skins game. Unless he would've taked Wade/Garrett out of calling a play with 10 secs in the half

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Som e of this makes a lot of sense, but some I'm left scratching my head over.

For example, a starting O-Line that includes a rookie at center, a prior bust at RG, and a completely unproven 2nd year guy at RT. I don't see the upgrade except at LG, where the upgrade is drmatic. At center and the right side you have taken huge gambles though.

I don't like trading Witten. We all like jumping on banwagons at times, but Phillips has just missed a year with a serious knee injury, and Bennett is chronically inconsistent, and it just isn't that easy to replace a periennial 900+ yard TE.

On defense, Lissimore should be in the picture on the line, and Church cannot be expected to gain 25-30 pounds and switch to ILB. How can a guy be listed at both ILB and SS anyway?

You have also taken big gambles at the safety positions. Not a proven guy in the bunch.

Church has played LB on some third downs. I listed him in the rotation of LB's.


As for safety theres a lot of options. Ball would be the worst case scenario but even still, I got some young prospects in there. I kept Ball on the roster b/c for better or worse he has a lot of experience and is solid depth. And maybe w/ a real DB coach he turns into something. Conversely, I just cut a guy like Colombo b/c we just have to do better. I didnt want Colombo back for this season and I got blasted.....look how that turned out


I wouldnt just plug any of these guys in on day one. Gurode can still play center if O'Dowd or whoever wasnt ready. But I was laying out a plan where we start to infuse some real prospects and proven players into the OL and secondary. I didnt know Dawan Landry was a FA. Maybe if we make enough moves we can get him and Mankins but Ill sign up for just Mankins right now.

I wouldnt bank on the fact that Aww Shucks was fired means the dead weight and losers are suddenly gems. We can do better!

 

[Hostile]

How do I put money on your feelings towards Jerry Jones?

You just name the price and I will meet it. I have plenty of evidence that will take your money.

 

[Stautner]

Church has played LB on some third downs. I listed him in the rotation of LB's.


As for safety theres a lot of options. Ball would be the worst case scenario but even still, I got some young prospects in there. I kept Ball on the roster b/c for better or worse he has a lot of experience and is solid depth. And maybe w/ a real DB coach he turns into something. Conversely, I just cut a guy like Colombo b/c we just have to do better. I didnt want Colombo back for this season and I got blasted.....look how that turned out


I wouldnt just plug any of these guys in on day one. Gurode can still play center if O'Dowd or whoever wasnt ready. But I was laying out a plan where we start to infuse some real prospects and proven players into the OL and secondary. I didnt know Dawan Landry was a FA. Maybe if we make enough moves we can get him and Mankins but Ill sign up for just Mankins right now.

I wouldnt bank on the fact that Aww Shucks was fired means the dead weight and losers are suddenly gems. We can do better!

I agree we can do better, but we have to hedge our bets until we see how new guys perform. We can't just assume it, even with very high picks who are known to bust at times.

I agreed with you that we needed a replacement for Colombo, for example, but I was not on board with cutting him as long as Barron and a rookie (Young) were the options. We have to make sure we have the replacement we need rather than go on the blind assumption that whoever we bring in has to be better.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

you a bad man . . .
The whole team, man.

 

[brickman]

I agree we can do better, but we have to hedge our bets until we see how new guys perform. We can't just assume it, even with very high picks who are known to bust at times.

I agreed with you that we needed a replacement for Colombo, for example, but I was not on board with cutting him as long as Barron and a rookie (Young) were the options. We have to make sure we have the replacement we need rather than go on the blind assumption that whoever we bring in has to be better.

Real good point. What do they say? .... "be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it".

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I agree we can do better, but we have to hedge our bets until we see how new guys perform. We can't just assume it, even with very high picks who are known to bust at times.

I agreed with you that we needed a replacement for Colombo, for example, but I was not on board with cutting him as long as Barron and a rookie (Young) were the options. We have to make sure we have the replacement we need rather than go on the blind assumption that whoever we bring in has to be better.

I agree w/ the idea that we would be in the hunt if it was Red's team all along, but lets not forget the insanity that went on w/ some of these guys. Sensabaugh hasnt met a pass he wont turn around for. What good are you in coverage if you are no threat to pick off the pass? Whats stopping a QB from going your way and what are you really doing to stop the completion? At that point you are just existing near a defender. We need an upgrade, plain and simple.

As for the other players, the ones people think may be gutting the team....

Igor is a tool, if hes gone no one will miss him. Take the star off his helmet and hes someone we can all laugh at.

Barber? Love him but insanely overpaid and brings us nothing special right now. He gone

Brooking is about done, no shame in that.

Colombo? Slow and getting slower. Same w/ Sensy, if they are starting then theres a problem.

My roster wasnt even full so theres room for them as backups, but Colombo just signed a deal and itd be a waste of money. Same for Leaonard Davis. You can maybe get away w/ him at RG for another year but at that price why not just cut bait and use the money on better options? Lets say we dont bring back Davis, Colombo, Sensy, Igor, and Barber. Thats a lot of wasted money and you can come out of FA w/ Logan Mankins and Bernard Pollard at SS. Hes not the biggest ballhawk but you still have him, Church, AOA, Deunta Williams(the rookie). You have several ways to go at safety then this terrible group that didnt cut it already.

You cant be afraid to try and upgrade when the status quo wasnt good enough

 

[Stautner]

I agree w/ the idea that we would be in the hunt if it was Red's team all along, but lets not forget the insanity that went on w/ some of these guys. Sensabaugh hasnt met a pass he wont turn around for. What good are you in coverage if you are no threat to pick off the pass? Whats stopping a QB from going your way and what are you really doing to stop the completion? At that point you are just existing near a defender. We need an upgrade, plain and simple.

As for the other players, the ones people think may be gutting the team....

Igor is a tool, if hes gone no one will miss him. Take the star off his helmet and hes someone we can all laugh at.

Barber? Love him but insanely overpaid and brings us nothing special right now. He gone

Brooking is about done, no shame in that.

Colombo? Slow and getting slower. Same w/ Sensy, if they are starting then theres a problem.

My roster wasnt even full so theres room for them as backups, but Colombo just signed a deal and itd be a waste of money. Same for Leaonard Davis. You can maybe get away w/ him at RG for another year but at that price why not just cut bait and use the money on better options? Lets say we dont bring back Davis, Colombo, Sensy, Igor, and Barber. Thats a lot of wasted money and you can come out of FA w/ Logan Mankins and Bernard Pollard at SS. Hes not the biggest ballhawk but you still have him, Church, AOA, Deunta Williams(the rookie). You have several ways to go at safety then this terrible group that didnt cut it already.

You cant be afraid to try and upgrade when the status quo wasnt good enough

I never said we shouldn't try and upgrade, I only said that we need to reach some level of confidence that the guy brought in to be an upgrade actually is an upgrade before releasing the guy we want to replace.

Could you imagine if we had released O-linemen in past years expecting guys like Al Johnson, Jacob Rodgers James Martin, etc... to step in right away? Even Free, who most feel pretty good about now, didn't become a starter until his 4th year.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

I never said we shouldn't try and upgrade, I only said that we need to reach some level of confidence that the guy brought in to be an upgrade actually is an upgrade before releasing the guy we want to replace.

Could you imagine if we had released O-linemen in past years expecting guys like Al Johnson, Jacob Rodgers James Martin, etc... to step in right away? Even Free, who most feel pretty good about now, didn't become a starter until his 4th year.

Well I think you are taking the worst case scenario and applying it. Dont you think they would see what rookie center X could do before they thought about moving Gurode to guard next to him?


As for Colombo, he pretty much is the worst case scenario so no harm done


Anyone know anything about this Tyson Clabo form Atlanta b/c they can always run it? Ive never heard of him but hes a FA at RT. Only 29 years old, I would think about making a commitment there. Keep an eye out for him on Sunday

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Sorry Beast, but you and others who want to gut the team are just flat out wrong. Progress is about steady improvement, not drastic over reaction. You cannot erase the entire chemistry of a team and succeed. It cannot be done. Impossible. Bad idea. Dumb idea.

Agreed. Assuming that 20 of these guys stink and need to be replaced is a very dangerous assumption. If, say, only 5 of them need to be replaced and the rest need better schemes, better coaching, a fresh start, etc., and we gut the team we have wasted a chance at a great season. By gutting the team we virtually guarantee we won't be competitive next year (assuming there is a next year.) We've only got so many draft picks and so much money for so many available free agents. The NFL is a zero-sum league -- the better a FA is, the more teams will be willing to pay for him. Granted, if the rest of these guys do really stink then we'll have to get rid of them eventually but that can wait one more year.

I'd like to a new starting OT along with Free. I think Free would be good at LT or RT. I'd like someone to replace Davis. I'd like a new starting FS. I'd like a run-stuffing NT to spell Ratliff or to replace him if we move Ratliff in a new scheme or otherwise. And a new starting DE to replace Olshansky and/or Spears.

That's five new starters only. Other than that, I'd like to see people brought in for depth and competition.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Inside LBers with some speed and that can cover would be nice. Hopefully Lee can step into one of the spots. If he can't, then we wasted another pick.

 

[BourbonBalz]

What we HAVE to get in the off-season. A starter at one OG and one tackle position, whether by free agency or via the draft. That much isn't up for debate. At least one new starter at safety whether already on the team or in the draft/free agency. One or two DEs, considering we're going to lose one or two in the off-season. At least one ILB that can cover. As I said in my previous post, hopefully Lee can fill a portion of this need. I also wonder if we're going to get younger at backup QB???? Don't know if we'll stay pat or not.

What we don't need as the roster currently stands. WR, RB, TE, OLB. Could change depending on whether we cut or trade anyone from these positions.