SportingNews.com: Yes, the Patriots have a weakness

Gooch

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By Vinnie Iyer, Sporting News
Posted October 2, 2007

While watching the Patriots dismantle their latest overmatched opponent, the Bengals, on Monday night, I was scratching my head trying to come up with the slightest chink in the chain mail.

The Patriots have a power running game. They have a deep passing game. They have a fine pass rush. They have good pass coverage. They can stop the run. They know how to protect the ball, and are just as good as taking it away.

Besides the rare Tom Brady interception -- which happened to set up the Bengals only touchdown last night -- it doesn't seem like any team has a chance to do anything against them.

Then you remember that that the four teams they've beaten now have combined for as many wins as the Patriots have -- four. But what each of the first four opponents have been able to do successfully might become a legitimate concern for when the competition is dialed up, to say, the Cowboys' level in Week 6, or the Colts' level in Week 9.

In Week 1 against the Patriots, the Jets went no-huddle to work themselves into the red zone in the first quarter. Chad Pennington then hit Laveranues Coles for a short TD strike. The same exact thing happened in the third quarter of that game.

In Week 2 against the Patriots, the Chargers also managed to score in their only two trips to the red zone, first on a short dumpoff to fullback Lorenzo Neal and second on a 12-yard bullet to tight end Antonio Gates.

In Week 3 against the Patriots, the Bills worked their way into the red zone early to get a 7-3 lead off of a run by rookie Marshawn Lynch. Last night, the Bengals' only trip to end zone was a TD pass to T.J. Houshmandzadeh in -- you guessed it -- the red zone.

Yes, the Patriots are shockingly last in the league in something, allowing touchdowns on 100 percent of their opponents' red zone trips.


Of course, New York, San Diego, Buffalo and Cincinnati all had trouble moving the ball on New England on the rest of the field, but all those offenses are a bit out of sync at the moment.

There's nothing out of sync with the prolific offenses of either Dallas or Indianapolis, the two teams looking like they will pose the biggest threats to the Patriots' domination, both in regular-season matchups and potentially deep into the playoffs.

So what's with this weakness? Consider that it's hard to get too creative with coverage looks and spreading out defenders in the tight space inside the 20. That means the Patriots have more one-on-one responsibilities at linebacker and defensive back.

So let's look at those six touchdowns. All but one came off passes (three to a wide receiver, one each to a fullback and a tight end), and the last one was a surprise run by Lynch on a third-and-8.

Other than super versatile outside linebacker Adalius Thomas, the Patriots have minor speed (inside linebacker) and size (cornerback, safety) concerns in their defensive back seven. Coles is simply a very quick receiver, while Gates and Houshmandzadeh are two of the game's smartest intermediate route runners. Lynch already is making his mark as just a special runner.

So it's not just anyone having success against the Patriots in the red zone. They're some of the game's most talented offensive skill players.

That brings me to the Cowboys and the Colts. Tony Romo, with some Tom Brady-like poise, has Dallas rolling, and it helps that he has three of the NFL's best red-zone options in Terrell Owens, ultra athletic tight end Jason Witten and powerful tackle-breaking back Marion Barber III. Of course, we know the Colts are loaded with options near the goal line, and the Patriots know firsthand how dangerous running back Joseph Addai and tight end Dallas Clark have become.

The Cowboys and the Colts will move the ball on other parts of the field much better than the Patriots' first four opponents, setting up the chance to score more points. Also, both inside and outside the 20, the Patriots' Stephen Gostkowski and the Cowboys' Nick Folk are pretty good young kickers, but they don't quite have the clutch resume of the Colts' Adam Vinatieri.

Keep in mind that their red-zone defense should be considered to be only a small problem. They have their own awesome red-zone offense, led by Brady, and their defense elsewhere on the field and overall special teams have been exceptional.

But we also know in the modern NFL that no one's perfect, not even these precise Patriots. At least it gives the Cowboys and the Colts hope -- and gives us yet another reason why we can't afford to miss those two games.
 

alancdc

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We have to put some pressure on Brady. I think we can stop their run, and Cinci had some chances downfield last night, but Palmer was really off. We have to get to Brady.
 

big dog cowboy

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Well I completely agree. It all starts up front. You give any QB time and he will pick you apart. We all know that. Brady needs far less time than most. You have to hit him early and often and keep it up all game.

The other thing I want to see is some team hit Moss as he is coming off the line. I mean really roughing him up. Giving him a free release is almost conceding a TD.
 
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The key to winning the game will be pressuring Brady and knocking him on his arse!! I want Roy Williams to break a few of Moss's ribs! :pray:
 

vta

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I'm looking forward to this game so much, Buffalo seems like an after-thought already. I can afford to do that, I'm not playing.:D

Moss has a history of killing us, and that worries me.
 

Freyguy

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This may very well be a preview of Super Bowl XLII. What we learn in this game will probably need to be used later.

The defensive pass coverage, just like most people, is the thing that scares me the most. I agree that if we can get good pass rush, everything else will fall into place. Lets just hope the TNew is healthy and ready for Moss.
 

Biggems

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that cant be right......werent the Bengals in the red zone when Palmer threw that INT just before the half?
 

Boyzmamacita

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The problem is we haven't had a dominant pass rush as of yet. Although the pass rush has improved each week, our guys are still a step too slow with the rush. We need a big game from the pass rushers on MNF. I'm talking 6+ sacks. Our guys need to get used to getting to the quarterback BEFORE he releases the ball. Hopefully having Ellis back as a pass rush specialist will help. And Spencer seems to be figuring things out. I keep waiting for Spears and Canty to step up. Maybe Tank will make the difference when he joins the team, but in the meantime, it sure would be nice to see Brady kissing the turf on a regular basis in two weeks. I hope Ware has one of his trademark monster games.
 

Jimz31

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I can't believe that more people didn't see Brady throwing into the ground when he was pressured with really nowhere to go. He was throwing the ball 5 yards in front of the receivers when pressured.
 

Rack

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Jimz31;1684158 said:
I can't believe that more people didn't see Brady throwing into the ground when he was pressured with really nowhere to go. He was throwing the ball 5 yards in front of the receivers when pressured.

Problem is, he rarely gets pressured.

But that's why I always say Brady is one of the most overrated players in the League. YES, he is a GREAT QB. No doubt about it, but he's not AS GREAT as people portray him to be. He's just got the luxury of a great OL and a great system, and now he also has great recievers.
 

Jimz31

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Rack;1684161 said:
Problem is, he rarely gets pressured.

But that's why I always say Brady is one of the most overrated players in the League. YES, he is a GREAT QB. No doubt about it, but he's not AS GREAT as people portray him to be. He's just got the luxury of a great OL and a great system, and now he also has great recievers.

I completely agree with you.

But I think that most if not all QB's would look great if they have no pressure on them.

Kudos to their o-line for protecting him so well....but that ends in week 6!
 

jrumann59

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Teh Redzone stat may be little skewed since the Pats are beating teams by 20 so when you have a lead a mercy TD here or there is going to happen.
 

BBQ101

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Rack;1684161 said:
Problem is, he rarely gets pressured.

But that's why I always say Brady is one of the most overrated players in the League. YES, he is a GREAT QB. No doubt about it, but he's not AS GREAT as people portray him to be. He's just got the luxury of a great OL and a great system, and now he also has great recievers.

Most overatted? He is only GREAT and therefore overated?

Let me ask you this. Romo has been sacked 6 times this year. That puts him on pace for 24 sacks this season. How many sacks has Brady been averaging a year for the last 4 years, you surely must know if you say he never gets pressured. If Romo's sacks this year are below Brady's average in the past 4 and Romo wins the Super Bowl, are you going to say he is overrated? Is there any possible way he can be overrated? If Tony wins 2 more super bowls after that, but doesn't get many sacks is he goign to be overrated?

Are you saying Brady can never be considered one of the greats because he played on good teams? Does he have to somehow get on a crappy team and win it all for him to be legit? Maybe they being so good has alot to do with him.

Maybe Brady is what he is, a Freaking Incredible Quarterback that is still in the Prime of his career. Come on man, how many football games does a man have to win to get respect?

Just because he is a patriot doesn't mean we have to loose sense of reality. Brady is not one of the most overated players in the League. He is absolutely one of the best players in the league, and well on his way to making a claim on being one of the greats. In the end, it all comes down to wins and he has a ton of them. And alot of them are when it all mattered.

BBQ
 

Rack

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BBQ101;1684234 said:
Most overatted? He is only GREAT and therefore overated?

Do you understand the meaning of the word "Overrated"?


Or are you one of those simple minded people that think when someone is referred to as "Overrated" it MUST mean that the person is saying said player sucks?


:rolleyes:


Get yourself a dictionary, Chico.



And about the sacks thing, that was the whole point. When he gets pressured, he gets away from the pressure (and I"m not just talking moving around a little in the pocket, I'm talking about shaking defenders that have him point blank), but when Brady gets that same kind of pressure he turns to crap. I understand most QBs don't fare well when pressured, but that's my point (again) about Brady being overrated. He's not one of those QBs that can face major pressure and still burn you (ala Elway, Montana, Aikman - in a different way, Staubach, etc...). He's a GREAT QB when he's got ALL DAY to throw, but he's an average QB under pressure.


"Overrated" doesn't mean he "Sucks". It means he's rated higher then he should be.



Are you saying Brady can never be considered one of the greats because he played on good teams?


I already said he is a great QB. But if you think he's up there with Montana, Elway, etc.. then you're clueless.

How well do you think he would of fared if he played in the early 90's (or earlier)? Back then DBs were able to cover WRs, DL were able to hit QBs, DBs were allowed to HIT WRs, etc... QBs today have it WAY too easy. Even Manning is overrated. Great QB, yes. But how well would he do if he didn't have all day to throw and didn't have multiple wide open recievers to throw to?

Do you even remember Aikman to Irvin? DBs were allowed to be A LOT more physical downfield back then and it took a GREAT QB with PINPOINT accuracy to make the kind of plays Aikman did back then. I could only imagine the numbers Aikman would put up if he wasn't hammered all day and had WIDE OPEN recievers to throw to all day.
 

Jimz31

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BBQ101;1684234 said:
Most overatted? He is only GREAT and therefore overated?

Let me ask you this. Romo has been sacked 6 times this year. That puts him on pace for 24 sacks this season. How many sacks has Brady been averaging a year for the last 4 years, you surely must know if you say he never gets pressured. If Romo's sacks this year are below Brady's average in the past 4 and Romo wins the Super Bowl, are you going to say he is overrated? Is there any possible way he can be overrated? If Tony wins 2 more super bowls after that, but doesn't get many sacks is he goign to be overrated?

Are you saying Brady can never be considered one of the greats because he played on good teams? Does he have to somehow get on a crappy team and win it all for him to be legit? Maybe they being so good has alot to do with him.

Maybe Brady is what he is, a Freaking Incredible Quarterback that is still in the Prime of his career. Come on man, how many football games does a man have to win to get respect?

Just because he is a patriot doesn't mean we have to loose sense of reality. Brady is not one of the most overated players in the League. He is absolutely one of the best players in the league, and well on his way to making a claim on being one of the greats. In the end, it all comes down to wins and he has a ton of them. And alot of them are when it all mattered.

BBQ

Rack also said that he was a "great" QB.

3 Superbowls by 3 points.....

What is it that all coaches say? 1 or 2 plays can make all the difference? How many plays did they know before hand in each of the Superbowls due to Videogate?

Have you ever seen a team in the Superbowl run so many screens in a 2nd half of football as they did when they played the Eagles? Here comes the blitz....oops, another screen....coincidence? Hardly.

Now, it was the Eagles, so I am happy that they lost......
 

BBQ101

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Rack;1684242 said:
Do you understand the meaning of the word "Overrated"?


Or are you one of those simple minded people that think when someone is referred to as "Overrated" it MUST mean that the person is saying said player sucks?


:rolleyes:


Get yourself a dictionary, Chico.

Its hard for me to have a serious discussion with this kinda stuff. Thanks for the cool and quirky nickname of Chico and the insinuation that if I don't agree that Brady is one of the "Most Overrated" players in the league, I am simple minded.

You might have had some interesting points in there, but I can't get passed that type of stuff.

I never said you thought Brady sucked, in fact I never even typed that word...my argument is that he is not even close to being overated, much less Most Overrated players in the legue. I thought that was what you meant when you typed "But that's why I always say Brady is one of the most overrated players in the League".

Thanks for telling me what my argument was and that Im simple minded. Plenty of other people to converse with around here.

Nothing to see here I am moving along.

BBQ
 

BBQ101

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Jimz31;1684247 said:
Rack also said that he was a "great" QB.

3 Superbowls by 3 points.....

What is it that all coaches say? 1 or 2 plays can make all the difference? How many plays did they know before hand in each of the Superbowls due to Videogate?

Have you ever seen a team in the Superbowl run so many screens in a 2nd half of football as they did when they played the Eagles? Here comes the blitz....oops, another screen....coincidence? Hardly.

Now, it was the Eagles, so I am happy that they lost......

If you don't think he is up there in the upper eschelon, thats fine that is not what this is about really. Rack's argument was that Brady was one of the most overrated players in the league

...he typed

But that's why I always say Brady is one of the most overrated players in the League
I disagree with that. I don't think Brady makes to many peoples "Most Overatted" list. I'm sorry but I think that is ludicrous. I disagree with him which is why I responded.

BBQ
 

Daudr

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BBQ101;1684234 said:
Let me ask you this. Romo has been sacked 6 times this year. That puts him on pace for 24 sacks this season. How many sacks has Brady been averaging a year for the last 4 years, you surely must know if you say he never gets pressured.

The answer is 27.5. Brady isn't as mobile as Romo though, so his is largely due to protection, while Romo's low sack numbers are equally due to protection and his ability to move in the pocket and avoid the sack.
 

BBQ101

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Daudr;1684273 said:
The answer is 27.5. Brady isn't as mobile as Romo though, so his is largely due to protection, while Romo's low sack numbers are equally due to protection and his ability to move in the pocket and avoid the sack.


Very nice. And making my point really. I don't watch the patriots all that much, but if he is averaging 27.5 sacks a game its not all due to his line. Brady is an extremely acurate passer that gets the ball out quickly. Those two things right there will limit sacks. He throws way more touchdowns than he does interceptions. He consistantly leads his team into the playoffs year after year. He has won 3 superbowls, all within a 4 year span. His career is far from over and he is once again on a domanant team. This year he is throwing at a 79.2% completion rate with a 9.3 yards per average. He has 13 touchdowns to 2 interseptions. The man is an incredible talent and not in the least overrated.

Racks main point that I disagree with is that Brady is overrated because he never has to face pressure and he isn't great because he is sourrounded by talent. I am sure just about every person on this board would say that Aikman was one of the greatest ever. Was he not sourrounded by one of the most talented teams in the history of the league ever when he won it all? How many sacks was he getting when the team won 3 in 4 years? Did he always have to face a ton of perssure?

BBQ
 

Rack

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BBQ101;1684257 said:
Its hard for me to have a serious discussion with this kinda stuff.

I can type slower but it won't make any difference on your end, Chico.

BBQ101;1684277 said:
Very nice. And making my point really.

No, it didn't make your point.


Let me put it to you as simply as possible, if Romo had the exact same "escapability" as Brady, then he'd be getting sacked about 40 times a season, not 24. With Brady, his low sack numbers are due to GREAT protection. Romo is getting solid protection this year, but his escapability is a BIG reason he hasn't been sacked a lot more. And I'm not talking about taking one step up in the pocket to avoid a guy being blocked, I'm talking about avoiding guys that are untouched and have him in their crosshairs.


If Brady had played back in the day when QBs had to EARN their big plays, he would of been toast.

All QBs have it easy nowadays.

No way does Manning break Marino's TD passes in a season record if the rules were exactly the way they were back then. And can you imagine how many TDs Marino would throw in a season in Today's NFL?
 
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