Stacking the deck: Cowboys’ talent-laden roster points to good things ahead

[waving monkey]

There’s an old football saying (sometimes quoted by former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson): “It’s not the X’s and O’s, it’s the Jimmys and Joes.” Put into somewhat more technical terms, it says that winning football games is more dependent on the talent level of the players than the scheme and play-calling of the coaches. While it is seen as a bit more applicable at the college level than the NFL, it is still valid in the pros. This is why top players at their position get top money, after all. And with the possible exception of Bill Belichick, coaches generally cannot find great success if their roster is full of mediocre players. Arguably, Belichick’s great gift is figuring out what his players do best and putting them in place to do so.


No matter how you parse it, it is hard to argue that even in the NFL, the better the players on a team’s roster, the more games you are likely to win. That is why draft picks are so valuable. And why top free agents get boatloads of money. Teams chase talent to fortify their roster in order to win.

If you accept that premise, 2017 is looking very, very bright for the Cowboys. Two recent rankings of top players in the league have Dallas among the truly elite teams in terms of how good their top players are.

link/https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...oints-to-good-things-tyron-smith-dak-prescott

 

[gimmesix]

Almost all of our elite/top players are on offense, though, so good things are ahead only if some defensive players other than Lee prove to be elite/top talent.

 

[elcowboi]

Almost all of our elite/top players are on offense, though, so good things are ahead only if some defensive players other than Lee prove to be elite/top talent.

I agree. Right now it's lopsided with all of the talent on offense. Hopefully a few players on defense will step up this year.

 

[jday]

Almost all of our elite/top players are on offense, though, so good things are ahead only if some defensive players other than Lee prove to be elite/top talent.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you a little here, gimme.

The Cowboys honestly don't "need" elite players to emerge to be a great overall defense. That will help, but it's not necessary. The main thing they need is for the defense to simply do their job play in and play out, no matter the circumstances. Top Talent helps, but unless your drafting at the top of the first round every year, it is really difficult in today's NFL to make that a reality. So if you can just get a collection of guys to simply do their job and do it right, similar results can be yielded, despite the lack of overall talent.

 

[gimmesix]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you a little here, gimme.

The Cowboys honestly don't "need" elite players to emerge to be a great overall defense. That will help, but it's not necessary. The main thing they need is for the defense to simply do their job play in and play out, no matter the circumstances. Top Talent helps, but unless your drafting at the top of the first round every year, it is really difficult in today's NFL to make that a reality. So if you can just get a collection of guys to simply do their job and do it right, similar results can be yielded, despite the lack of overall talent.

It think there's only so much you can do with doing your job play in and play out, and coaching as well. When you're lined up as a defensive end and the guy across from you is better, then you're going to have trouble winning most of those battles. This scheme calls for the defensive line to attack and depends on them disrupting the play. You can accomplish some of that with assignment-sound football, but most of the time it's going to come down to my guy being better than your guy.

 

[flashback]

I think the difference between the most talented team in the NFL and the least talented team in the NFL is microscopic. Whenever I see "talent" in reference to an NFL team, I substitute the word "hype" in my head. It's nice that NFL Network and PFF are trying to compare apples to apples here and it's a little better than just using draft position or number of pro bowls, but all of these teams have the same pool of talent to choose from, they all have the same amount of money to spend each year, and they all have the same basic evaluation process, right down to getting the same scouting reports from the scouting organizations and poaching each others scouts, personnel directors, etc. So, I don't get a lot out of these debates about whose roster is the most talented.

 

[jday]

It think there's only so much you can do with doing your job play in and play out, and coaching as well. When you're lined up as a defensive end and the guy across from you is better, then you're going to have trouble winning most of those battles. This scheme calls for the defensive line to attack and depends on them disrupting the play. You can accomplish some of that with assignment-sound football, but most of the time it's going to come down to my guy being better than your guy.

There is certainly truth to that; but, at the same time, that outlook largely ignores the cascade effect...which gives me an idea for my next contribution. You have a hat tip coming when I finally get around to submitting it. With the weekend and the quickly approaching holiday, it may be mid-week before I get around to finishing it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you a little here, gimme.

The Cowboys honestly don't "need" elite players to emerge to be a great overall defense. That will help, but it's not necessary. The main thing they need is for the defense to simply do their job play in and play out, no matter the circumstances. Top Talent helps, but unless your drafting at the top of the first round every year, it is really difficult in today's NFL to make that a reality. So if you can just get a collection of guys to simply do their job and do it right, similar results can be yielded, despite the lack of overall talent.

It's a chicken or the egg thing.

I agree with you completely that if we get 3 above average rushers on the DL and proficient coverage out of the athletes on the back end we can have an excellent defense. At the same time some of those above average players will get anointed.

 

[Cowboys_22]

We didn't have enough PlayBreakers on defense last year. I believe we drafted some top talent and a healthy Jaylon will be enough to make great things happen.

 

[LocimusPrime]

Sign Orr!

 

[dallasdave]

Sign Orr!

Orr for More !!!!!!!!

 

[ChronicCowboy]

The offense is truly loaded but it'll be up to Dak as to how far we go. The defense has youth and talent which is more than we could say last summer.

This team could go either way this year, I can't predict what will happen.

 

[Idgit]

I think the difference between the most talented team in the NFL and the least talented team in the NFL is microscopic. Whenever I see "talent" in reference to an NFL team, I substitute the word "hype" in my head. It's nice that NFL Network and PFF are trying to compare apples to apples here and it's a little better than just using draft position or number of pro bowls, but all of these teams have the same pool of talent to choose from, they all have the same amount of money to spend each year, and they all have the same basic evaluation process, right down to getting the same scouting reports from the scouting organizations and poaching each others scouts, personnel directors, etc. So, I don't get a lot out of these debates about whose roster is the most talented.

Team's don't draft equally, they don't necessarily fit players to scheme equally, and they don't develop players equally. Just because the raw materials are similar it doesn't mean the builds will be equal.

It's a players league, and always has been. Nothing is more important to success than personnel.

 

[xwalker]

I think the difference between the most talented team in the NFL and the least talented team in the NFL is microscopic. Whenever I see "talent" in reference to an NFL team, I substitute the word "hype" in my head. It's nice that NFL Network and PFF are trying to compare apples to apples here and it's a little better than just using draft position or number of pro bowls, but all of these teams have the same pool of talent to choose from, they all have the same amount of money to spend each year, and they all have the same basic evaluation process, right down to getting the same scouting reports from the scouting organizations and poaching each others scouts, personnel directors, etc. So, I don't get a lot out of these debates about whose roster is the most talented.

It not a microscopic difference, but it's not drastic like it can be be in college.

A top free agent or top 5 pick compared to the 53rd guy on the roster is not like a Ferrari vs a Yugo. It's more like a Ferrari vs a Corvette.

In college the top guy vs the bottom guy is a 747 vs a skateboard.

The very bottom teams can be quite bad some years but the talent difference from #20 to #1 can be just a few elite players.

 

[gimmesix]

There is certainly truth to that; but, at the same time, that outlook largely ignores the cascade effect...which gives me an idea for my next contribution. You have a hat tip coming when I finally get around to submitting it. With the weekend and the quickly approaching holiday, it may be mid-week before I get around to finishing it.

I don't disagree with the cascade effect because there's clear evidence for it, such as one that has been discussed around here about Lawrence benefiting from Hardy's presence at the other end during 2015. Hardy being there made Lawrence better. (I assume this is what you mean by the cascade effect.) However, the reason Hardy was able to do that is because he was a feared pass rusher, even though the numbers he had been putting up never materialized for us.

Sean Lee makes players around him look better than they would if he was not there, but he's got to be there in order to have a cascade. You can't take four average linemen and expect them to be much more than that unless someone in that group steps up to be more than average. Fortunately, we saw some of that last year. Irving stepped up to be more than average at times. Mayowa was doing that at the end of the season, too, and our pass rush was better. Collins can go in that category as well, although he was solid all season while being dominant at times.

 

[plasticman]

The Cowboys have dedicated more than the fair share of draft picks on the defensive line recently, a #1 two #2's a #3, and a #4 in just the past four seasons so it's not like they are totally bottom feeding for defensive line talent. They haven't gotten it totally together because of the stupid suspensions and injuries.

Also, does anyone really believe that Jaylon Smith will be spending every passing down chasing after a tight end. I'm pretty sure he's going to be a feared blitz option.

There is bonafide talent on the defensive line, there may even exist elite talent, I'm looking forward to Maliek's progress and I think it's time for Lawrence to make a statement, we've seen glimpses of his potential. They just need to do what the offensive line did, challenge each other, be accountable to the squad, and become familiar with each other through practice in order to form some cohesion and efficiency.

Seriously, can you imagine what the defensive line would look like this season if Gregory and Irving hadn't gotten themselves suspended?

You would have Gregory, Lawrence, Charlton, and Tapper at DE. You get Collins and Crawford at DT. I'm just talking about Cowboys drafted in the top 4 rounds and it's well distributed, a #1, two #2's, two #3's and a #4....six D-linemen. I have no expectations from Gregory but the point is, this is certainly not bottom of the barrel talent.

 

[tyke1doe]

There’s an old football saying (sometimes quoted by former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson): “It’s not the X’s and O’s, it’s the Jimmys and Joes.” Put into somewhat more technical terms, it says that winning football games is more dependent on the talent level of the players than the scheme and play-calling of the coaches. While it is seen as a bit more applicable at the college level than the NFL, it is still valid in the pros. This is why top players at their position get top money, after all. And with the possible exception of Bill Belichick, coaches generally cannot find great success if their roster is full of mediocre players. Arguably, Belichick’s great gift is figuring out what his players do best and putting them in place to do so.


No matter how you parse it, it is hard to argue that even in the NFL, the better the players on a team’s roster, the more games you are likely to win. That is why draft picks are so valuable. And why top free agents get boatloads of money. Teams chase talent to fortify their roster in order to win.

If you accept that premise, 2017 is looking very, very bright for the Cowboys. Two recent rankings of top players in the league have Dallas among the truly elite teams in terms of how good their top players are.

link/https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...oints-to-good-things-tyron-smith-dak-prescott

Translation: No more excuses, Jason Garrett!

 

[Idgit]

Translation: No more excuses, Jason Garrett!

Or, more accurately, "we're fortunate to have a coach that contributes to bringing in and then developing the Jimmies and Joes again, finally."

 

[tyke1doe]

Orr for More !!!!!!!!

Orr not.

 

[tyke1doe]

Or, more accurately, "we're fortunate to have a coach that contributes to bringing in and then developing the Jimmies and Joes again, finally."

Marty Schottenheimer did that, Marv Levy did that, Bud Grant did that, Andy Reid did that.
It's great that he acquires talent and develops it. But if that talent doesn't deliver Super Bowl victories, what doesn't it matter? You acquire talent and develop it so you can win the Super Bowl.