Starting Positions on Defense

[Sydla]

Strong Safety –
as of now Kearse is inserted as starter. Much could be about Donovan’s offseason surgery recovery on his knee. Kearse has always been a limited fringe player (ala Dorian Thompson role)
Though he maybe wasn’t always in proper position in coverage, much of that could be due to his inexperience as he only finally saw considerable time in 11 games.
(of all things Thompson was actually starting the season over Wilson) but no doubt about Wilson’s knack for creating big plays -whether a monster fumble hit (ala vs RB Cook) , a QB strip (vs Wentz)
..or an INT (two in 2020) – we really those kind of playmakers. Hopefully more game experience adds up to more consistency and even possible leadership

Free Safety – Cowboys are banking that in shorts-shirt, Kazee is on course for full recovery. Even healthy he’s decent to average in coverage and tackler but he’s another that
has a knack for coming up with INTs, whether tipped or under cutting the inside route.

Achilles tendon tend to be very tough injuries to recover-regain previous forms in the NFL. But is it outta the question?
Also who will backup Kazee at FS ?
Rookie Israel Is no lock to make the team. Per pre draft his physicality has been in questioned.
i had thought for sure that Lewis would've been in contention

Right CB – I can’t see Brown ascending to being solid enuf starter for a full 17 game period. I think the better outside WRs will eventually be able to spin him silly and take advantage of his questionable
coverage skills and ball location.
This scheme is supposed to be zone oriented, so off the ball and in certain situations where he’s facing forward to QB, he could come up with some big plays
but if he gets hip to hip up field .. Yikes !

Only because he's vet, and rookie CBs need adjustment period to NFL, could i see starting the season with Brown. .before he's eventually challenged and replaced by one of the rookies Fat Joseph or
Bright.

LCB- Diggs' ball hawk mentality, growing coverage skills and limited 1-year experience early on makes him the lead CB for the time being. i only worry if he can match single handed vs top tier elite or pure speed merchant WRs of the NFL in coverages that he'll surely face this year - ala Tyreek, Hopkins, Ridley, Jefferson, Evans, DJ Moore, Henry Ruggs, and McLaurin

Kearse as a starting SS is eeeeewwwwww.

 

[OmerV]

How they use LVE, Smith, Parsons and Cox is going to be interesting to see. Those are all guys I would think the team would want to get on the field, but at most the team uses 3 LBs, and often only 2. When in 3-4 our normal pass rushing DE's may be the LB's.

 

[Verdict]

I am putting Hill over Bohanna for now, as he is a 6th round pick. Fans tend to over rate these guys way too often.
Though Bohanna could be my pet cat on defense in TC this year.

Also we need to see what Quinn’s defense will be and how the players will be used.

I think your take on Hill is reasonable. On the other hand, by all accounts he got a poor start to his NFL career and that is putting it kindly. He was so immature that Marinelli had him sign a symbolic contract to act a certain way.

Players that have those kind of issues tend to wash out. We don’t know that’s what is going to happen with Hill, but the smart money is betting against him.

Even if he starts and plays adequately this year it was a waste of a second round pick. He will really have to pick up the pace to justify his draft slot.

 

[xwalker]

Jerry doesn't make mistakes, Jaylon will play because Jerry took a chance on him.



And he's got a mega contract, Jerry loves to get his money's worth...

Parsons and LVE were 1st round picks. Jaylon was not...

 

[xwalker]

I think your take on Hill is reasonable. On the other hand, by all accounts he got a poor start to his NFL career and that is putting it kindly. He was so immature that Marinelli had him sign a symbolic contract to act a certain way.

Players that have those kind of issues tend to wash out. We don’t know that’s what is going to happen with Hill, but the smart money is betting against him.

Even if he starts and plays adequately this year it was a waste of a second round pick. He will really have to pick up the pace to justify his draft slot.

Marinielli had all players sign that contract. It was only publicized with regards to Hill because the media wanted to pile-on with regards to the fan narrative about Hill.

Team don't expect 2nd round pick to be starters in year 1. Hill was starting in year 2.

Marinelli said that effort was not an issue with Hill. The issue was that Hill was slow to adapt technique / play-style to meet Marinelli's requirements.

Hill had been taught was his original college coaches to play the run first with pass rushing as an afterthought.

Marinelli wanted the exact opposite.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Parsons and LVE were 1st round picks. Jaylon was not...

What has that got to do with Jerry taking a chance on Jaylon or his having a huge contract?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Marinelli said that effort was not an issue with Hill. The issue was that Hill was slow to adapt technique / play-style to meet Marinelli's requirements.

So now that Marinelli is gone, what can we expect?

 

[dwmyers]

- I recall Quinn’s comments early in his just hired on days, as we’d like to able to " play fast "
Playing instinctively and disciplined without no confusion or hesitation, - something that was just opposite in Nolan dayz.

The 3-4 is supposedly gonna be the “base “ look, but 60%-70%, we’ll be in a four man front ?
We’ll be “ Nickel” set most of the times ? .. I just wonder how this all will play out.

The base front is not a 3-4, but this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_4-3_hybrid_defense

There is a video with John Owning and Skywalker Steele that talks (start at the 4 minute mark and listen) about the Pete Carroll-DQ "country zone" Cover 3 (as Owning describes it).

If they can successfully teach it and play it, then the "play fast" (pass) comes from the fact that pass defenders can look at the QB while handling their roles.
Play fast on defense (run) comes from the fact that each DL should be taught one role (end, NT, 3T, Leo). Play fast for linebackers comes from the fact they
have no assigned run gaps in base.

Kurt Warner has a series on various NFL defenses. Maybe the best of these is on Vic Fangio's Cover 6 base, but he has a good one on the Carroll Cover 3 and how
it is not like "generic" Cover 3.

 

[xwalker]

What has that got to do with Jerry taking a chance on Jaylon or his having a huge contract?

Benching a 1st round pick in order to start a 2nd round pick is not really a method for a GM to "prove himself correct".

 

[stilltheguru]

And I still think its funny how Diggs gets all the excuses in the world and optimism but Donovan has to prove sooooo much. Diggs gets toasted it was Nolans fault or because it was a good wr. Wilson gets beat (on a few plays where we don't even know if it was his responsibility) and he's a liability in coverage! Lol

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

i think its more likely that JS plays despite his pitiful level because that's what this organization does. keeps penciling in the incumbent regardless of performance.

And veteran D coordinators rarely like to rely on rookies to stabilize their D. For Jaylon, good enough would be good enough

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Benching a 1st round pick in order to start a 2nd round pick is not really a method for a GM to "prove himself correct".

For Jerry it is. How many other teams would have taken Smith, even in the third or fourth rounds? Probably nobody, given the severity of the injury.

Jerry has to show everybody he's the smartest GM around, the "see, I knew Jaylon was going to be a superstar in the NFL, others were too dumb to see it". He can't give up on Smith just yet, it would mean he was wrong to get him, and Jerry can't stand that. Eventually he would give up on Smith, he'd have to, keeping him would be even worse than cutting him, or replacing him as the starter.

Jerry's one of a kind, you and I would bench Jaylon or put him as the backup, but Jerry isn't us...

 

[quickccc]

• 3-4 NT: Fans think Bohanna is a lock, however...
  • New Coordinators like to have have as many veterans on the field as possible.
  • More veterans speed up the learning curve for implementing the new scheme.
  • Don't be shocked if Trysten Hill gets the start.
  • Despite what fans believe, Hill is very strong.
  • On run plays, Hill got more attention from blockers than anyone last season.
  • He was often double-teamed even when playing 3tech or 3-4 DE.

I could see Urban and rookie Osa being used as the 3-4 ends in the 3-4 base scheme, but then what becomes of the NT in the 3-4 ?
I've always heard that the starting key to controlling a 3-4 defense is being able to handle the NT.

- With Bohanna being an adjusting rookie NT, that’s a lot on the plate early on. I could see him being slowed out of the gates while he learns.
And whose the backup NT, should Bohanna even get the starting nod ? Neither Urba, Hill or Gallimore are behemoths or scheme-fitted like Bo is as a NT, but it comes down to it,
it’ll have to be about who can come closer to success as a backup NT.

Hill has some obstacles ahead of him,
- first he'll have to continue to recover from ACL surgery, that alone could be very iffy as who knows how slowly he could be brought along.
- also he’s learning yet his 3rd scheme from his 3rd defensive coach.
- he’s still green with still little experience while having his ups and downs learning to grow in the game.
- he’s up against the numbers game with the DL count
- as a 3 tech in 4 man front,, i liked how he got off blocks and into the backfield, albeit too few of those plays, but i could see why scouts liked his penetrating skills.
With so little exposure and time on field it's hard to determine at this time whether he can be more than just a mere rotation guy.

 

[quickccc]

Marinielli had all players sign that contract. It was only publicized with regards to Hill because the media wanted to pile-on with regards to the fan narrative about Hill.

Team don't expect 2nd round pick to be starters in year 1. Hill was starting in year 2.

Marinelli said that effort was not an issue with Hill. The issue was that Hill was slow to adapt technique / play-style to meet Marinelli's requirements.

Hill had been taught was his original college coaches to play the run first with pass rushing as an afterthought.

Marinelli wanted the exact opposite.

Doesn't that depends upon the team, the position, the coaches, the players and situations?

- Conner Williams (2nd rd) was expected to plug and start his rookie year.
- Diggs (2nd rd) was expected even as a rookie, to compete for a starting role over Worley and Brown, ..opposite Awuzie.

 

[jazzcat22]

it could be...bohanna is my pet cat along with fehoko

Those are mine also, plus pulling for Vasher also.
I still like Noah Brown, he will be pushed by these 2, same for Wilson. But Wilson returns punts and Brown is a good ST's guy. Feheko takes Malik Turner's spot for sure.

 

[xwalker]

For Jerry it is. How many other teams would have taken Smith, even in the third or fourth rounds? Probably nobody, given the severity of the injury.

Jerry has to show everybody he's the smartest GM around, the "see, I knew Jaylon was going to be a superstar in the NFL, others were too dumb to see it". He can't give up on Smith just yet, it would mean he was wrong to get him, and Jerry can't stand that. Eventually he would give up on Smith, he'd have to, keeping him would be even worse than cutting him, or replacing him as the starter.

Jerry's one of a kind, you and I would bench Jaylon or put him as the backup, but Jerry isn't us...

Again, the draft is always most focused on the 1st round and fans/media focus the most on the outcomes of 1st round picks.

Jerry has no incentive to bench 1st round picks in order to start a 2nd round pick.

If a later round pick was playing better than Jaylon, then yes, it would benefit Jerry to keep Jaylon as the starter.

It does not matter anyway, because Jerry has giving complete control of football operations to his son.
- Jerry will always keep the GM title and will always require 1st dibs on camera/mic time, but Stephen Jones is making all front-office football decisions now.

It started in 2014 with Garrett as the only person remaining with direct access to Jerry that was not a blood relative. Once SJ pushed Garrett out, everyone now reports directly to SJ, including McCarty.

SJ has eliminated all of the groupies that would whisper in Jerry's ear about such and such player, etc..

SJ picked McCarthy. He prepped McCarthy on what to say or not say to Jerry, but SJ was already in discussions with McCarthy when Jerry was continuing to meet with Garrett before Garrett's contract expired in mid-Jan of that year.

Obviously Jerry could veto anything just like any owner can veto any of their employees, but the entire Jones family is on-board with SJ as the acting GM and they're now Jerry's only true inner circle.
- The Lacewell types have been pushed out of Jerry inner circle by the Jones clan.

 

[xwalker]

I could see Urban and rookie Osa being used as the 3-4 ends in the 3-4 base scheme, but then what becomes of the NT in the 3-4 ?
I've always heard that the starting key to controlling a 3-4 defense is being able to handle the NT.

- With Bohanna being an adjusting rookie NT, that’s a lot on the plate early on. I could see him being slowed out of the gates while he learns.
And whose the backup NT, should Bohanna even get the starting nod ? Neither Urba, Hill or Gallimore are behemoths or scheme-fitted like Bo is as a NT, but it comes down to it,
it’ll have to be about who can come closer to success as a backup NT.

Hill has some obstacles ahead of him,
- first he'll have to continue to recover from ACL surgery, that alone could be very iffy as who knows how slowly he could be brought along.
- also he’s learning yet his 3rd scheme from his 3rd defensive coach.
- he’s still green with still little experience while having his ups and downs learning to grow in the game.
- he’s up against the numbers game with the DL count
- as a 3 tech in 4 man front,, i liked how he got off blocks and into the backfield, albeit too few of those plays, but i could see why scouts liked his penetrating skills.
With so little exposure and time on field it's hard to determine at this time whether he can be more than just a mere rotation guy.

Hill played 3-4 NT in his first 2 college seasons. That coaching staff loved him as a player.

Hill was 308 when drafted but reportedly was over 320 at times in college.

Hill often played 1tech in 2020. Poe did not always play 1tech despite appearing to be an obvious fit there.

Hill's primary issue is his over-eager style. Both college D-Coordinators and Marinelli said that Hill practices/plays with terrific effort...almost too much effort...as in effort over technique.
- His issue with both Marinelli and the 2nd college coaching staff was that he was slow to adapt to their techniques.
- Hill brought in to everything the original college coaching staff taught him and had difficulty accepting that new coaches requirements were better than the previous staff.
- In the NFL he had to learn to play against zone run blocking because a DL can't just out-effort or out-physical OLinemen against zone run blocking. It requires technique/timing.
- Zone run blocking teams love over-eager DL because they get them moving in 1 direction and then use their own momentum against them.

 

[quickccc]

Hill played 3-4 NT in his first 2 college seasons. That coaching staff loved him as a player.

Hill was 308 when drafted but reportedly was over 320 at times in college.

Hill often played 1tech in 2020. Poe did not always play 1tech despite appearing to be an obvious fit there.

Hill's primary issue is his over-eager style. Both college D-Coordinators and Marinelli said that Hill practices/plays with terrific effort...almost too much effort...as in effort over technique.
- His issue with both Marinelli and the 2nd college coaching staff was that he was slow to adapt to their techniques.
- Hill brought in to everything the original college coaching staff taught him and had difficulty accepting that new coaches requirements were better than the previous staff.
- In the NFL he had to learn to play against zone run blocking because a DL can't just out-effort or out-physical OLinemen against zone run blocking. It requires technique/timing.
- Zone run blocking teams love over-eager DL because they get them moving in 1 direction and then use their own momentum against them.

it's a different animal in NFL than it is in college. The level of competition, techniques, strength, speed ratio, pace and nuisances of the game is just two worlds apart.
what you could get away with at Central Florida is a different matter in NFL.
it's a reason why he struggled so badly as a rookie beyond just Marinelli.

- Poe didn't play anything when he was in there - whether 1 tech or NT, he proved out of fumes the minute he lined up Game 1. The effort and motor just was never there.
Even the mediocre coaches there could not wait to get rid of him per mid season.
To show how much of a utter mess it was with 2020 coaches, Tomsula had Gallimore playing 1 tech, while Woods tried to play 3 tech.

- Hill even played some 1 tech his rookie year, whether per injury (ala Woods.. again) for lack of depth, but playing and excelling is two different things.
Marinelli (reluctantly?) activated and played him because he was running out of bodies

 

[terra]

Hill played 3-4 NT in his first 2 college seasons. That coaching staff loved him as a player.

Hill was 308 when drafted but reportedly was over 320 at times in college.

Hill often played 1tech in 2020. Poe did not always play 1tech despite appearing to be an obvious fit there.

Hill's primary issue is his over-eager style. Both college D-Coordinators and Marinelli said that Hill practices/plays with terrific effort...almost too much effort...as in effort over technique.
- His issue with both Marinelli and the 2nd college coaching staff was that he was slow to adapt to their techniques.
- Hill brought in to everything the original college coaching staff taught him and had difficulty accepting that new coaches requirements were better than the previous staff.
- In the NFL he had to learn to play against zone run blocking because a DL can't just out-effort or out-physical OLinemen against zone run blocking. It requires technique/timing.
- Zone run blocking teams love over-eager DL because they get them moving in 1 direction and then use their own momentum against them.

Frankly the problem with hill is between the ears. We shall see if he has straightened out. A DT without discipline and doing his job is worthless.

 

[xwalker]

Doesn't that depends upon the team, the position, the coaches, the players and situations?

- Conner Williams (2nd rd) was expected to plug and start his rookie year.
- Diggs (2nd rd) was expected even as a rookie, to compete for a starting role over Worley and Brown, ..opposite Awuzie.

Hope and expect are not the same.

Teams don't consider it a fail if a 2nd round pick does not start as a rookie.

The Cowboys had planned on Brown, Awuzie and Lewis being the starters for 2020 with Diggs being given a wide open opportunity to win one of those starting jobs.
- They ended with with injuries to both Brown and Awuzie.

When Connor Williams was drafted, they had some veteran options at LG. The big issue is that Frederick developed the Guillain-Barré syndrome forcing Looney to play OC.

Joe Looney: We've seen that Looney can be decent as the 5th starter.
Marcus Martin: He had 24 NFL starts prior to 2018. He was pushing for a starting job when he blew out his knee in camp.
Chaz Green: He had been a viable option at LG the previous season before injury and before the catastrophe at LT.

Cameron Fleming: He was signed as the swing Tackle but had played some games at OG in the past.

They drafted Connor Williams because he was the best player available on their draft board.