Sturm: Chance Warmack

Gaede

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I agree too.

Warmack is my #1 target. I used to want Richardson at 18 but I don't believe he'll be available.
 

Idgit

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Gaede;5044976 said:
I agree too.

Warmack is my #1 target. I used to want Richardson at 18 but I don't believe he'll be available.

You and I have pretty much the same take on this draft, it sounds like. I'd love Richardson, or either OG. And I only expect one of those three to be there.
 

RS12

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Daniel Jeremiah ‏@MoveTheSticks 11h
3 of the most consistent players on tape: C Warmack, Jarvis Jones and Keenan Allen...each guy had poor workout #'s. This is a unique draft!
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BrAinPaiNt

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Idgit;5045116 said:
You and I have pretty much the same take on this draft, it sounds like. I'd love Richardson, or either OG. And I only expect one of those three to be there.

I think that is the best scenario for this team.

One of those three would be great for this team.

And although some will hate to hear it I think Vacarro is also in that mix which is why I hope that one of those three are there.:D
 

CashMan

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BrAinPaiNt;5045126 said:
I think that is the best scenario for this team.

One of those three would be great for this team.

And although some will hate to hear it I think Vacarro is also in that mix which is why I hope that one of those three are there.:D


The logical thinking part of me, says take the Safety, since it is the bigger need, but I think Warmack, would have the bigger impact.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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CashMan;5045140 said:
The logical thinking part of me, says take the Safety, since it is the bigger need, but I think Warmack, would have the bigger impact.

I think both of are need and I think Warmack is rated higher but that is just me.

However Broaddus did say something interesting in one of his net shows this week or last.

Something along the lines of this question.

Are you more comfortable with Church AND Moore starting and in so taking an Olineman or other position and skipping Vacarro (if he is there).

Or are you more comfortable with Livings and Bernadeaux(sp?) starting with Costa at C and Free or Parnell starting at RT so you take Vacarro and skip taking one of the OGs (or OTs if there).

That is really a hard question. I guess the other question becomes...Do you feel you could get a better Olinemen in the second or third round vs a better S in the second or third round.

Lots of questions. Lots of possible scenarios.

I really really want us to take Oline vs Safety in the first (if Cooper, Warmack or one of the top OTs are there). I think if you add one of those OGs you can also help out the center spot some and/or also help out your RT (whether free or Parnell. If one of the OTs fall than you can help out the OG.

But the safety situation is scary when you have one guy who only started a few games and had a bad injury as one starter. The other guy being a guy they really like but has had injury problems in both college and the pro and has yet to play a down in the NFL and your back up is a guy that just signed that is a player that is paid to be a backup.

Scary stuff all around and that is why this draft is so important.
 

Idgit

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BrAinPaiNt;5045126 said:
I think that is the best scenario for this team.

One of those three would be great for this team.

And although some will hate to hear it I think Vacarro is also in that mix which is why I hope that one of those three are there.:D

People will hate it. But getting the consensus best S in the draft when S is a position of need is not a bad consolation prize by any stretch.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Idgit;5045146 said:
People will hate it. But getting the consensus best S in the draft when S is a position of need is not a bad consolation prize by any stretch.

Not at all.

And I think people need to get into the mind set that just because they player or players they like are not taken, it does not mean the ones that are taken are bad players for this team.

Now of course that does not mean that if we take 3rd round prospect in the first or something of that nature and think it is ok.

But I think if we would take Cooper, Warmack, Richardson, Vacarro, Austin, Werner, Sly Williams or even a DJ Fluker...they are all decent picks and could help this team out from the get go. Well...I don't know if Werner helps out with Ware and Spencer starting but the others are probably day one starters..Even Austin would be a utility guy with returns and slot duties.
 

CashMan

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I think, why I am thinking Safety is a bigger issue, is that it seems to be one of the things in a successful Tampa-2 scheme, except in Chicago. Lynch in Tampa, Sanders in Indy, but for some reason, Lovie never had that type of Saftey. So, then maybe the Guard makes more sense.
 

Hoofbite

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It isn't often that the NFL drafts an interior offensive lineman in the Top 20 picks of the 1st Round. In fact, as it goes, this almost violates a certain truth about the NFL on how you just don't do that in this league. It is considered wasteful to draft premium players at "non-premium" positions in most cases

Obviously the track record speaks for itself in terms of OG being one of the positions that teams don't take high but I wonder how much was actually based on the perception of these positions not being as valuable as the others or if teams were simply making value match the paycheck under the old rookie pay scale.

What I mean is, under the old pay scale teams were forced to pay ridiculous amounts for these guys and OGs can be had for way less on the free agent market.

JPP was drafted 15th in 2010, the last year of the old scale and he signed a contract of 5 years, $20M

Bruce Irvin was 15th in 2012 and he signed a 4 year, $9.3M contract.

When you look at what you would have to pay to get a great DE on the open market it's a hell of a lot more than what you would have to pay to get a great OG. If you are forced to pay a ton by drafting in the top 10 under the old system it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to pick a guy who would cost less on the open market than what you will have to pay him because you drafted him at #8 or #9.

If you're going to hand out $40M to a guy (Spiller: #9 overall, 6 years $39.3M), you might as well hand it out to a guy who if he reaches his peak would cost a hell of a lot more to acquire in free agency.

If that makes sense.....not sure I'm doing a great job of describing my thought process here.

Basically, teams had to pay ridiculously high dollar amounts so I think to some extent they tried to make their picks justify those costs. Picking a stud DE at least makes the contract somewhat justifiable whereas picking a stud OG is still likely paying way more than you would ever dream of having to pay for a stud at that position.


That said, I think the rookie scale makes these non-premium positions a little more worthwhile to the teams picking in the first half of the round. Teams no longer have to try to make their pick match up to the money that the player is going to get regardless of his position and picking a stud at any position is going to give you a bargain price compared to the FA market so you might as well pick the guy who's most likely to be a stud.
 

CATCH17

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The question isn't between Safety vs Guard. The question should be who is better. One of the guards of Vacarro?


I don't feel like there is some huge fall off after Vacarro. In fact i'd rather have a guy that makes a few more plays on the ball than him.

Give me Cooper or Warmack over Vacarro. Some team will let go of a solid safety. Teams usually don't let quality OL hit the streets.
 

jterrell

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Whether getting the consensus best safety is good or not depends on the draft.

Do we want to draft Michael Huff? Louis Delmas? Not at 18.
But if it is Earl Thomas? of course.

Chance Warmack is a markedly better player on a football field than Vaccaro. It actually isn't even close. And end of the day I'd have to take the OG even though I hate drafting interior OL early.

Taking TE in round 1 is fairly stupid to me but Jason Witten? That's a round 1 value.

You have to take special players but not always the best player at a specific position. Sometimes positions are just barren in a particular draft class.

Safety is soft this year IMHO; especially at the top.
 

jterrell

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As for Sturm's breakdown he sees what I do in these clips.

A guy who can really move people when he is asked to key block, a guy who can knock a massive dude off balance with one arm then go get a linebacker and erase him, and a pass blocker who is just going to stonewall dudes.

With the negatives being lack of foot speed to pull more than 10 yards and a hair second slow reaction time. He looks very athletic and agile for his size and shows tremendous balance on that second level which is why he displays such good strength there. A guy like Fluker isn't going to give you that. That's the difference between an OG and a RT.
 

Hoofbite

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jterrell;5045201 said:
As for Sturm's breakdown he sees what I do in these clips.

A guy who can really move people when he is asked to key block, a guy who can knock a massive dude off balance with one arm then go get a linebacker and erase him, and a pass blocker who is just going to stonewall dudes.

With the negatives being lack of foot speed to pull more than 10 yards and a hair second slow reaction time. He looks very athletic and agile for his size and shows tremendous balance on that second level which is why he displays such good strength there. A guy like Fluker isn't going to give you that. That's the difference between an OG and a RT.

Sturm also hit the nail on the head regarding his big gut that he likes to put on display.
 

xwalker

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Media guys have nothing to lose in pandering to the audience.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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xwalker;5045208 said:
Media guys have nothing to lose in pandering to the audience.

Is he pandering or is he just saying what he sees and likes?

Although he is in he media and I am sure likes to get hits to his articles...I think Sturm is one of those who really tries to tell it as he sees it without all the drama.

Does not mean he is right or wrong but I think he is not doing it to pander to the fan base.
 

Avery

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If you're really interested, look to see how many busts you find at the interior OL positions that are drafted in the first. It's one of the unique positions where guys that are drafted early have outstanding careers. You can't say the same for any other position on the field in that range.
 
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