Twitter: Sturm comparing Dak downfield completion percentage with other league QBs

Roadtrip635

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no i'm not using anyone against dak. But i would absolutely take yac out of the equation if you are looking at completion percentage on "deep" throws. I would do that across the board not just dak. you miss the point obviously, so i dont care if you disagree.
The completion % is on the chart for deep throws, you're just not getting it. You're so consumed and worried that Dak is getting credit for something you don't think he should.

Dak's completion % of passes of 20+ air yards is 35.2% which is 19th
Dak's completion % of passes 30+ air yards is 28.6% which is tied for 16th

Dak's QB rating for passes 20+ air yards is 107.6 6th best
Dak's QB rating for passes 30+ air yards is 118.8 2nd best
 

charron

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I see what you’re saying, but every QB’s yards include YAC, I’ve never seen that removed to reflect a quarterbacks stat line.

Cooper is a very good YAC WR, but it’s not like he’s some juggernaut that no other team has an equal weapon too. Most good teams have legit deep threats and guys who can create after the catch. In fact, before Cooper we were one of the slowest WR corps, so you could say Dak’s only had 8 games to benefit from a real YAC option at receiver anyway.

I’m not saying Dak is comparable to Mahomes as a deep passer, but no one takes out Tyreek Hill’s YAC to evaluate Mahomes. I don’t think anyone really dismissed YAC in their QB evaluations, unless WR screens and dump offs are the bulk of your offense which is usually a college spread air raid thing.


agreed that no one does it but they should. I would be interesting to see where all of the qb's fall when you take the elite receivers yac out of it for all of them. take out tyreek hill'ss ability to do magic after the catch, how does Mahomes look then, is he still elite? Some of these QB's numbers would be different, atleast their perseptions would be.
 

Roadtrip635

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Pass attempt yards by play isn't the same as air yards is it? They are charting total plays over 20 yards. So an easy dump off pass that goes past 20 yards is charted. where I think it's better to simply chart the air yards to get a better idea of what the qb is connecting on and not what the wr, rb etc is doing with it after wards. In my example dak throws it 30 yards, which is good. But cooper ran the other 60 for a td and that makes dak look better than what he actually threw. I think you'd get a better picture of what Quarterbacks are actually doing vs just the end result bacause that is the sum of all of their efforts.

Since air yards are not an official stat, they are throwing those in to show what those plays translate to in the real world.
 
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charron

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The completion % is on the chart for deep throws, you're just not getting it. You're so consumed and worried that Dak is getting credit for something you don't think he should.

Dak's completion % of passes of 20+ air yards is 35.2% which is 19th
Dak's completion % of passes 30+ air yards is 28.6% which is tied for 16th

Dak's QB rating for passes 20+ air yards is 107.6 6th best
Dak's QB rating for passes 30+ air yards is 118.8 2nd best


I get it he's about average completions 16th-19th. My post wasn't directed at dak just used him as an example. But posting yac skews them all and skews some more than others,
 

AshyLarry06

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I'm so glad Linehan is gone
I don't know if Moore is the guy, I have major reservations, but Linehan did our offense so many diservices.

We were the NUMBER ONE most predictable offense in the league as far as rush vs pass on down and distance.

I think the difference in Dak with Kellen Moore as OC (and more importantly, Linehan gone) will be earth shattering. A good OC can change everything about everything on offense, just look at Jared Goff...
 

Roadtrip635

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I get it he's about average completions 16th-19th. My post wasn't directed at dak just used him as an example. But posting yac skews them all and skews some more than others,
He may be average in completions, but he's also among the best in the league when he does throw deep when you look at his QB rating. He makes the most of those completions and doesn't make as many mistakes.

You're all bent about YAC, but by the same token why does a WR get credit of all those yards the ball traveled in the air. It skews their official stats when they play with a better QB. If a ball travels 20 yards in the air, but all the WR does is catch it and steps out of bounds, why should he get credit for 20 yards? Why should a RB get credit for all the yards a huge hole the OL opened and no one even touched him? Why should they get credit when it was the OL that did all the work?
 

charron

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He may be average in completions, but he's also among the best in the league when he does throw deep when you look at his QB rating. He makes the most of those completions and doesn't make as many mistakes.

You're all bent about YAC, but by the same token why does a WR get credit of all those yards the ball traveled in the air. It skews their official stats when they play with a better QB. If a ball travels 20 yards in the air, but all the WR does is catch it and steps out of bounds, why should he get credit for 20 yards? Why should a RB get credit for all the yards a huge hole the OL opened and no one even touched him? Why should they get credit when it was the OL that did all the work?

Id break all that down for wr's too. wr get credit for that 20 yard catch because that's the depth he ran since typically its harder to catch deeper passes than shorter ones. Again the whole premis is bob breaking down deep passes and looking at it but doesn't really break them down properly in my opinion. Hes still looking at the whole play and not isolating what the QB is responsible for yet assigning stats based on the outcome. We do break down running back when looking at yards after contact, its part of seeing which Rb's are making more yards with their effort and not big giant holes as you point out.
 

erod

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More ignorant stats. It's an epidemic. Sturm wallows in them like a weird fetish.

This doesn't reflect the number of passes he didn't attempt because he has no confidence downfield and just took a sack. It doesn't show the ones he passes up and just dumps into the flat. When the windows get tight, he shrivels up.

He's he king of the first-and-goal field goal.

Until that changes, I just don't see it with him. He has every chance to prove me wrong.
 

TwentyOne

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“Yeah, but something something and he still sucks!”

This is about overall pass play. Not about how long the ball was actually in the air.

When this is about Daks accuracy, which i think it is, then find more meaningful stats.

If you cant find according stats then just watch the Tape. If you are not blind you can see that he is not able to put the Ball where it should belong.
 

buybuydandavis

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Deep passes don't occur in isolation to what's happening with the rest of the team. Teams have been challenging the offense to beat them over the top for a couple of years now. Got better this year, but there's a ways to go. Stop Zeke, press the outside in man coverage to prevent easy short passes, and take your chances on Dak/WRs/OC beating you over the top.

That should lead to easier passes for Dak and better numbers.
 

Fmart322

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If Dak ever get his passing situation figured out he'll be great.
Pocket awareness and throwing.
Big strong lad, runs well, true leader. He always comes to play in the 4th qtr.
He really needs a mentor/ coach that can bring the best out of him.
 

HungryLion

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True but some QB's benefit more than others having a guy like cooper. Look at Daks stats pre- coop and after. Night and day. Copers ability to make guys miss shouldn't be brought into an equation used to look at qb's.

I get it. But every single QB passing statistic is affected by the guys catching their passes.

It’s just the nature of the beast.

Dak’s stats being night and day pre and post Coop does make sense. Combination of how bad the receiver Corp was before coop and how dynamic of a downfield threat that Cooper is.
 

America's Cowboy

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More ignorant stats. It's an epidemic. Sturm wallows in them like a weird fetish.

This doesn't reflect the number of passes he didn't attempt because he has no confidence downfield and just took a sack. It doesn't show the ones he passes up and just dumps into the flat. When the windows get tight, he shrivels up.

He's he king of the first-and-goal field goal.

Until that changes, I just don't see it with him. He has every chance to prove me wrong.
 

Yobwocs

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ROTFLMAO. When I first opened this thread.... I read "Stop comparing Dak's downfield pass percentages to other QBs," closed the thread thinking it's gonna be another heated debate about Dak. But then I looked at it again more closely.

So Dak is the 6th highest rated QB on long passes? So you're telling me he's a better long passer than he is a dink-and-dunker? Who's the dink and dunk specialist again? Yeah...guy's name is called Wentz. That's what I thought.

Btw.... My eye test has always told me Dak has a great deep ball. Allow him to set his feet, and he'll kill you. He has a better deep ball than Mahomes; Mahomes is just better throwing on the run which accounts for his 7/8 yard completions that go for 27 yards because of the YACs. I think that's the area Dak needs improvement.
 

Haimerej

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The completion % is on the chart for deep throws, you're just not getting it. You're so consumed and worried that Dak is getting credit for something you don't think he should.

Dak's completion % of passes of 20+ air yards is 35.2% which is 19th
Dak's completion % of passes 30+ air yards is 28.6% which is tied for 16th

Dak's QB rating for passes 20+ air yards is 107.6 6th best
Dak's QB rating for passes 30+ air yards is 118.8 2nd best

How is it possible to have a rating over 100 with a completion percentage of 35%?
 

Roadtrip635

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I get it. But every single QB passing statistic is affected by the guys catching their passes.

It’s just the nature of the beast.

Dak’s stats being night and day pre and post Coop does make sense. Combination of how bad the receiver Corp was before coop and how dynamic of a downfield threat that Cooper is.

People are crying that Dak's stats are inflated because Coop got YAC? Where were they defending Dak for the previous 2 years when he was throwing to YAC-less Witten? If WRs/TEs didn't get the air yards included in their stats, Witten would have averaged less than 20 yds a season for several seasons.
 

pansophy

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6th in deep passer rating but 19th in deep attempts. The Dak critics are half right - he doesn't throw deep enough. But the problem is that he should do it more because he's very good at it, which they claim he isn't. OC just wasn't calling enough deep shots.

Since the Cowboys use play action way less than they should, I guess it's obvious that they wouldn't try enough deep shots since those are usually set up by run fakes.

Fun stuff.
Maybe, or maybe he only does it under perfect conditions and would struggle if he did it in less ideal circumstances. Hard to extrapolate that he should do it more without actually looking at it more deeply.
 
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